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You are like that annoying uncle at the table for Christmas lunch. You're there because you are family, but everyone thinks you're annoying, and your jokes aren't funny. You will always post on here because you're a part of the Demonland family, but that's where it stops.

Watch the game from last week again and see how many kicks he butchered. HARDLY ANY! In fact some of his kicks were a high degree of difficulty and pinpoint perfect. Also take into consideration that a tagger is constantly chasing, then running off his player. This constant physical exertion makes it a lot harder to kick with composure. Yes, his disposal has been woeful in the past but he has obviously worked hard on this area of his game and it is starting to show. 17 disposals at 82.4% efficiency - 6 marks - 4 clearances - 3 rebound 50's - 3 inside 50's - 11 tackles - 112 Dream Team points. All while chasing one of the best mids currently in the game. FCS start giving our young players a chance to develop.

"- Neeld had the team playing with a very defensive mindset, which has had us chasing the opposition around all year and not getting enough of the ball in our own hands. Whereas Craig has encouraged a more attacking style of play, i.e. get the ball and keep it off them." I haven't heard the interview yet, but if the above quote is even close to verbatim, it is astonishing that Trenners has been so open about Neeld. To say that your coach had the team "chasing the opposition around all year" makes it very clear that they were being discouraged from attacking. Now we know that under Bailey, the team could attack well but could not defend to save themselves, and now Neeld is the exact opposite. Massive over-correction. Huge pat on the back to Trenners for saying it how it is. I wonder if this is the influence of Peter Jackson? Jones, Garland and now Trenners have been much more open to the media and really answering questions - a great change. Is it beginning to sound more and more like the players are loving Neil Craig - similar to Sydney wanting Terry Wallace but the players pleading to keep then assistant coach Paul Roos?

What a pretentious load of rot. Dunn has been an average footballer over his career, regardless of Saturday night. You talk of 'Orc hunting' yet anybody who dares disagree with you is an idiot. The irony is delicious when you openly characterise others as unthinking plebians for reading between the lines and forming their own opinions rather than taking the party line at face value. Total pseud behaviour. You're the biggest troll on here, ruining the boards with your Mr Peabody positivity, often flying in the face of all logic. Too bad the moniker of 'Baghdad Bob' was already taken.

Any more comments like this and there will be hex on the kid... Repeat after me people: Non-Demon friend (trying to have a chat about footy and being nice enough not to mention this season) - Hey, that Hogan looks good! Will be good next year! Dees fan: Yeah, he looks alright. Hopefully we can bring him at some point in 2014...Need to improve that midfield though. CHANGE SUBJECT TO MIDFIELD ISSUES. Let's not hex the kid. Remember, this is Melbourne. If we like something enough it will be taken from us.

I agree, and can I just pick on one thing: Every team's "pain" is self inflicted. Does anyone think that the Bulldogs never-ever-ever deciding to replenish their forward line properly after Johnson and Hall left is hurting them? They will need Draft Assistance soon. Does anyone think the Saints trading away picks for role players and constantly topping up during Lyon's years hurt them? They will need Draft Assistance soon. We had the ignominy of picking the wrong 18 year olds. Forget this 'ruined our kids with bad development' spiel the media has brought up. It may be a small issue but nothing turns Morton into Dangerfield, nothing turns Molan into Riewoldt. Our recruiters misfired, and Daniher went searching for a flag. That is why we are where we are. None of that is reason for the kind of animosity some have shown toward us getting Draft Assistance. We are in a socialised competition and we are crap, we should receive some assistance and I will be disappointed in Jackson if he cannot secure it.

One thing we need to remember for 3 quarters we kept a team to 6 goals, the defensive pressure was great but it was more about us controllong the footy. Once we controlled the footy it enabled the team to set up defensively to keep it in our forward half. The last quarter we just didn't control the ball, it was basically centre bounce clearance goal, we didn't have any chance to slow the game down as we just couldn't get the footy. Football is a simple game, if you have the footy and your opponent doesn't they can't score but you can.

Yeah, I was about to say - at some point a small forward has to be able to kick straight.

What was even better is that was against Matthew Watson. Carltank listed player who was their first round draft pick (18) in the 2010 draft who's now in his third year and Hogan towled him up. If I remember correctly he was dragged from Hogan in the end as he was exhausted and couldn't go with the Hulk. If Hogan's doing this to first round draft pick players who are in their 3rd year of AFL, just wait till he has another pre-season into him and he draws the oppositions 3rd defender as the two best will go to Clark and Dawes. A lot to look forward to here! Edit: Spell

what are you, high? every club in the comp would consider that kid to be the biggest asset in football.. there are plenty of midfielders bouncing around, but an 18 year old key forward like that is pretty much unprecedented I don't care what anyone says, to turn Scully's betrayal into getting Hogan, Viney and Toumpas in one go was an absolute masterstroke by those involved

So is your position that instead of recruiting Nicholson, we should have recruited some other guy from the ammos who also probably wouldn't have made it? I'm all for moaning about our drafting, but honestly, WGAF if we drafted an ordinary player with pick 14 in the rookie draft. The probability of getting good players that deep in to the draft is slim, so the consequence of blowing it is immaterial. If you stood it next to the consequence of those botched first rounders, you wouldn't even be able to see it.

What is quick about drafting a good teenager? And can posters stop equating 'tanking' to asking for draft assistance? No-one is advocating losing, I hope we win the 7 games that some poor Dees fans think we can get to. But it is irrelevant and I fear we will see how far away we are from Sydney and Geelong in the next two weeks. But we are nowhere near the middling teams - as Jackson has oft-repeated - we are a drain on the AFL right now. We need some assets to move for good midfielders. Give us some low picks to trade for some young midfielders. Draft Assistance is an equalisation measure and that policy should kick in for the MFC after our record over the past 6 years - 35-2-109. JAckson has asked for it - frankly I am amazed people on here can't see why he has asked for it.

Astonishing call from Caroline. Pity no one on the panel pointed out to her that over the last seven years Melbourne has not finished higher than 12th, while the Dogs have made three preliminary finals.

Love the way Hogan gave one of the defender the f'off elbow in the ribs after he marked. Got a touch of the arrogant about him...

3 different guys there...what do you want?

McKenzie and Nicholson - both rookie selections

The PP as stated by the AFL, will now be at the discretion of the AFL and is based on sustained poor performance on the field. While some factors can be examined, it really goes back to sustained poor performance over a period of 2 or more years. We IMO, are the only club that could qualify. The Dogs were successful in the last few years. GWS could not be considered for obvious reasons.

What you wrote and what the OP wrote give the exact same message. Get over yourself.

I totally agree, I also think that Roos is holding out to see what sort of assistance the AFL will dish out to the MFC. I can confirm that the AFL is very keen on Roos coaching us. He is the AFLs choice. IF the AFL want a strong MFC, that becomes self sufficient then rapid on-field improvement combined with a high profile coach and President is required. No team can afford to be cellar dwellers for 7 consecutive seasons. Other teams and supporters will hate that we will be rewarded for breathtaking incompetence. No we do not deserve help, our pain is very much self inflicted. However, for the strength of the competition, no team can be as redundant as the MFC for such a long period. It costs the entire competition and the AFL. The competition desperately needs to become more even, the introduction of the new teams combined with free agency have created a 2 tier competition. This is very unhealthy and weakens the competition and brand badly. The AFL know this. I am certain that over the coming years the AFL will go to great lengths to re-even the competition. I expect that other 2nd tier teams will also be rewarded for failure in the coming years. The AFL have stated that they do not want to create a EPL situation where the premiership is always and only split between the biggest 5 clubs. I hate socialism but it is required in the AFL for the health of our sport.

Glad we didn't end up with Warnock.

I have said before that when we compare these guys we are comparing degrees of the ordinary at best. The first requirement is to be someone who gives 100% and are frearless for the contast. Both get high marks I cannot fault them. However they are both serious short in the skill department. Both will constantly let us dowm in the disposal area resulting in turn overs that hurt and in the end cost us games. Both will be around the MFC for the next couple of years until we get better players. When we have a better midfield they will struggle to get games. Until then I grit my teeth when they get the ball as I know the what the next action is most likely to produce.

Like posters on a footy board, obviously

It was harringtons trade to make. He was keen for one of the mini draft picks too. He soon bailed when he realised Gws were holding everyone over a barrel and trying to shake them loose. Just read the article today. They say that pick 1 is up for trade. As a minimum they would want a player equivalent to Trent Cotchin. Yes that's right. Minimum. A number 2 draft pick with 5 years development. A captain. Minimum. But its the Victorian clubs fault that they have no mature talent because they won't trade with them. Even though they were able to pick 1 player from each club for free and failed to do so.

I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt and assume that question was tongue in cheek.

Wasn't there already a thread for this? A thread where it was pointed out Griffen had 31 disposals and 3 goals? If we're genuinely improving, neither of these guys will make the cut.

I'll judge him in 5 years time, when he has a mature CEO body.

Can we please stop referring to our players as "Spuds"...."List clogers" ect.....They may not be up to AFL standard, but the work they put in to better themselves and become better footballers cannot be doubted... I know you don't have to have played this game to be critical or have an opinion, but at least give them the respect they deserve.......Most of us would give our right arms to have the chance.....

Jack said: - Neeld had the team playing with a very defensive mindset, which has had us chasing the opposition around all year and not getting enough of the ball in our own hands. Whereas Craig has encouraged a more attacking style of play, i.e. get the ball and keep it off them. - Agrees it was Watts best 4 qtr effort of his career on the weekend. - Peter Jackson addressed all of the players recently and had everyone very fired up about the changes that are happening. He gave examples of other clubs who have been down, and managed to turn things around very quickly. - Player most keen to see if they've been named in the best: Sam Blease - Player with deepest pockets and shortest arms: Col Garland. - Best niggler: Lynden Dunn

I have been a huge critic of Nicho, but he was really good against the Doggies. He had a couple of turnovers but his kicking was actually spot on for most of the game. If - and it is a very big if - he can get his kicking right we need his energy and pace off half-back not up forward. He is a classic defender who "responds" to what happens rather than initiates it so ican't see him having the creativity or initiative to thrive up forward.

Yarran and Lucas are nothing to write home about though. Plus Yarran seemingly has attitude problems. I think we've seen enough of those over the journey.

Great post. We got rattled. The dogs started winning the football and we couldn't get our hands on it. Watts' mark was so important because it got the footy back in our hands and allowed us to control the game again. My favourite part of the first 3 quarters was our chains of possession. It was great to hold onto the ball 3, 4 or more disposals in a row. This week if Sydney get on top of us we need to go back to basics and get ball in hand. Cheap easy touches on the back line is fine. I'm happy for then to kick it around, build up possession and try to work the ball forward. Even if it means switch back and forth looking for an option. You can't score if you don't have the ball. Also, having the ball in hand adds confidence to the players. This year we have tended to blaze forward which gives possession away.

He's not getting the amount of ball he was last year, Terlich and Garland have been sweeping up a fair bit of that. I think he has played a more defensive role and over the last couple of weeks I can't see where anyone has kicked a bag on him even though he has been playing undersized. There are a few others that would go before Dunn.

They use that same god awful music for every highlights package. They need to change it.

SATY or BIFF

Personal opinion, think he/the club started to build him the wrong way, think they tried to bulk up a bit too much last season, and he was still growing, trimmed back this pre season and overdid the running, hence the foot, agree probably put back a year, but starting to show signs, spoke to him at training two weeks ago after the bye, feels really fresh and stronger, looking at involving himself more and more, disappointed in last season himself, said he just needs uninterrupted run of games

'Sat' this doesn't explain the loss of pace last season where it became apparent something wasn't right. He's certainly getting the ball a bit more and playing some good footy, I just reckon he doesn't have full freedom in his movement yet. This is not a knock on him as I am a big supporter of his and think a lot on here under sell him. The kid will be an A grader when he gets his power back.

Just on the Egan comparison, there really isn't one. He fractured the navicular bone in his foot, essentially the cornerstone of the arch. This is not rare, but is a risky fracture IF the bone develops "avascular necrosis", which is death through loss of blood supply. This ends careers because there is no structural integrity to the arch for heavier weightbearing. It turns to mush. It's cruel and somewhat random. MC's injury bore no effect on the navicular, so there is NO risk to him as it relates to Egan's. There are good diaggramatic pics re: Lisfranc via normal online search.

"Craigy's probably brought more of a freedom and when we have the ball in our hands, really trying to test the opposition offensively and make them defend us. "There's no doubt this year we've done a lot of chasing tail and it's now our turn when the ball gets in our hands to really make them defend us. "That's probably what Craigy's brought." And the rest So it is a mixture of what was paraphrased So again it is not an outright criticism of Neeld's methods

Love to hear someone ask him if he is injured.

It can raise as many eyebrows as you like but it's not about one game. it's about consistent poor performance. We are in position to get a PP and if the dogs stay down for a few more years they will be in position for a PP then.

Discussion on draft assistance for Melbourne seems to have gone quiet following Melbourne's win over the Western Bulldogs but I must confess, I nearly fell over when I heard Caroline Wilson say on Footy Classified that the Bulldogs had a better case for assistance than Melbourne. The reality is that the Western Bulldogs' barnstorming finish clearly highlighted exactly why Melbourne so badly needs draft assistance. Melbourne was smashed at the stoppages most of the day but in that last quarter hour, its midfield was helpless to stop the run and conceeded seven goals without much of a yelp. Until this situation can be addressed, we'll continue to struggle and accordingly, some sort of concessions are necessary to help us get up to speed. I'm more convinced now than ever that we have a good case. As for the Bulldogs their coach said he didn't want help so the matter should end there with his club.

I think we all would have loved O'mera but were never in the hunt. GCS used pick 4 to get him, something we never could have matched. We only had pick 12 that year and used that to secure Mitch Clarke.

If his hart not in coaching the MFC should not get Roos Not a fan of Williams think I rather have Mark Neeld back, only joking. Neil Craig is clearly the best choice for a Senior Coach, he here and knows the players and does not talk BS.

I thought Harrington was the list manager... ie, he manages contracts and the TPP so that we don't go over the cap. I'm not aware he was involved in making decisions about drafting or trading, except where money or contracts are concerned. Was that not BP's responsibility?

Don't give a toss about 2013. Just hope Mitch gets back on the park and gives us 5-8 years of good footy.

This. They will be monitoring the irritation he gets with increasing weight bearing, and given that this season is effectively about next year, erring heavily on the side of caution. The last thing they want is a chronic irritation. In respect to the stability of the Lisfranc repair, that's not in question. It's about not getting into an ongoing synovitis, which is an inflammatory irritation of the joint and surrounding capsule.

Did ok against Hawthorn. Byrnes and Rodan, and by extension Neeld, have been catapulted into the Realm of Reasons our List Is Terrible and it isn't fair at all. The draft, trades and FA allows a certain amount of potential or actual A or B grade players to come onto your list. Nat Draft top 50 picks, PSD top 3 picks, about 4 or 5 FAs, and a few trades can get those players. Once you get past that point you are looking at what you can do make your list better for that next year. We went older with the selections after that: Terlich, Matt Jones, Dawes, Rodan, Byrnes, Pedersen, Clisby and Gillies were targetted for that reason with the outlay being: ND Picks 20, 45, 70, 88, RD Pick 19, Martin and Gysberts. IMO: Dawes is worth the outlay of 20 and 45. Jones was worth Martin. Terlich was worth Pick 70. Rodan and Byrnes were worth the spot on the list ahead of whatever speculative player that was out there. Clisby was worth RD Pick 19. I don't know whether Pedersen was worth Gysberts - frankly neither look like making much of an impact on the AFL. Gillies was not worth the outlay of an early PSD pick (which is what we gave up when we signed him as a DFA). Our list is thin for mids because of decisions made in the past.

well my son-in-law is staying with me, in Australia on a medical placement from overseas, and when he'd read the Sunday Age lead article, he looked up AOD ( anti-obesity drug) 9604 on PubMed which hosts all research articles published. His take is that it is designed to act on (beta)adrenaline receptors and even increase their numbers in the body so that a given amount of adrenaline released may have more effect than if the drug were not used. This might explain the reason for its use in the sporting context There is more and if there is interest I will put it onsite

Doubt the Lions are bitching about Clark. They were happy to swap him to us for a high pick, rather than to Freo for a worse one. Also, he hasn't played much in the last two years.