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I think we have a core dozen players that could be involved in a flag. The rest are "interchangeables". Collingwood, Hawthorn and even Geelong still have a core group that you build premiership teams around. I must say though that Sydney's win last year has had me reassessing what is possible. I reckon it's one of the more extraordinary football feats I can remember. They won the flag in 2005 and in just 7 years virtually rebuilt their list and won another. There were just 4 players that played in the 05 team. It's crazy how they could do it with virtually no access to decent draft picks. I appreciate the salary cap difference, but it is truly astonishing what they were able to do. Even when I look at the premiership side on paper it looks pretty average.

I kinda feel like I'm pointing out the obvious here but yesterday we were missing our two key talls in Clark and Dawes. You throw those two into the forward line and the conversion rate from going inside our attacking 50 yesterday starts looking alot healthier. You fail to see what the club has done to address its forward woes? Really? So recruiting fairly big names in Clark and Dawes isn't enough, nor is using a number 3 draft pick on one of the most promising young key forwards to come through the ranks in many a year in Jesse Hogan, nor is what looks to be the handy acquisition of Dean Kent who as a medium forward is already showing he has the ability to impact the scoreboard, nor is the recruitment of mature players in Byrnes, Rodan and Pedersen, all of whom are there to address last year's issue of lack of scoreboard pressure. What more do you suggest the club does? The forward line is not the greatest issue, not even close. In fact it's fair to say that a forward line with Clark, Hogan, Dawes, Howe, Kent and Barry could eventually become the envy of the competition. The issue has been the midfield for some time, and it will continue to be until the youngsters can develop and one or two more A graders emerge or are acquired externally.

First off I know this thread is not about Watts and I appologise for going of topic, but I am sick of people sniping at Watts When talking about Watts I always come back to the way he was used by the MFC he played only three matches in his first season, making his debut against Collingwood in the round-11 Queen's Birthday blockbuster. As we all know he was physically targeted by the Magpies on the day due to the publicity generated by the then MFC surrounding him on match day. I have never seen such a huge expectation placed upon a young kid as what was done to Watts on that day. Afterwoods he would go on to play in only the next two matches, against Essendon and the Brisbane Lions, before being returned to the VFL. There is no doubt Watts was used by the MFC and the pressure and expectations put on him were extreme.I always had a issue with his introduction and how the then coaches debuted Watts. To me I have watched Watts slowly recover from this. Has he got the ability to be a First Class player? I dont know, to me the jury is still out, but I think we as supporters owe it to Watts to give him a chance and offer all our support we can to this young man, if he fails to make the grade the MFC only has itself to blame. I hope we never do that to a young player again and Like young Hogan today they are gradually weaned into AFL with no extreme expectations being placed upon them, other than to play football and help create a belief in our team. No more sacrifices and being thrown in at the deep end to try and raise hopes of the Melbourne Faithful. The expectations placed upon Watts on the day were totally unrealistic. We can never let that happen again.

good get. Neeld is a beginning coach with one of the worst teams in AFL history (relative to its competition). no real leaders, poor onfield and off-field culture, limited talent, limited experience...and you reckon you know how he is going to get us to play? Let's all be terribly clear about this: none of us know if Neeld can coach. None of us know how it will look if and when he gets it together and none of us know what style will win a grand final with the one exception: that competitiveness around the ground and a team built on defensive principles has always stood the best chance of winning a premiership once its talent has got up and going. And that is where Neeld has started. Neeld has been clear about who he wants and who he doesn't. He has been clear on trying to build a forward structure. He has been clear about the character of people he wants to recruit. Thompson got years to shape a list: he almost lost his job before it all clicked. Let's give Neeld some time: he clearly has direction.

Have you been asleep for two years? Heard of Clark, Dawes, Hogan, Byrnes, Rodan, Pedersen? All forwards who have been recruited in the last 2 years and the two most important ones (as well as others like Blease) did not play yesterday.

Some pics from today:

You seem to carry on as if it was Jack that assigned himself the number one pick. He is still just 21 and over the past two seasons has made steady improvement. I remember everyone was lining up to put the boot into Nathan Jones until about three seasons ago when it suddenly clicked, and now he is on the cusp of being an 'A' grade player. There is absolutely no reason why the same can't or won't happen with Watts.

I spent the afternoon trying to get an update from Matt, Scanning Demonland and watching live stats on AFL site. Frome reports here I reckon I got a better handle on it than some of the punters who claimed to have been at Casey! Ben-Her is the least likeable poster I have come across in my time here. Smug, self-serving egotist! I try to avoid s/he as much as possible. These are my positive observations after the game. Jamar is a highly rated tap-ruckman and he is in great form. Toumpas will blossom around the age of 21. We started well. Dunn impacted the game again. Sellar could easily have come away with 3 goals against Saints, which was my benchmark for inclusion in Round 1. We had same or slightly more inside 50's and that will translate into scoreboard when Clark and Dawes play. We had as many possessions as opponents. Magner is in consistently good form. N Jones is in consistently good form. Apart from Saints 6 goals in 12 minutes, we were highly competitive in all aspects for 80 minutes of the game. Tackling was down, but I have seen enough of previous NAB efforts to realise that out tackling is vastly improved across the board. Apparently kicking efficiency was down, but those jumping up and down most have never played in the conditions a wide-open, south eastern plains reserve tosses up (I note GFC have now played two in a row at Kardinia Park-home ground... I also note that Pies are at Etihad indoor stadium). Demons got within 18 points in final qtr when teenagers Hogan and Toumpas goaled. Apparently this is a rare game where Howe didn't take a screamer and we all know that will happen on a regular basis once the real stuff begins. Apparently there were no pre-season injuries to report (remember The Ox... Ben, you weren't a Demon supporter in those days... Oh damn, I used the words Ben and supporter in the same sentence!) David Roden got his hands on it and continued his habit of scoring a goal. Garland blanketed Milne. Frawley played well before running into a bit of trouble (which coincided with Saints purple patch if my reading of the game is correct... funny that!) That's plenty to be pleased with in a pre-season game. We are definitely on the improve and I think a win in round 1 is more than likely!

OK late summary here, hope somebody sees some value in it (Is there anything worse than the poster who couldn't be F'd going down there, but they look at a stats sheet and pontificate on it as if they were there?) -Anyway, Frawley played well, I saw ONE instance where Riewoldt (who is clearly one of the best in the game) beat him, and even that incident occured because NR had a nice little runup to be able to come over the top of a flat footed JF to mark it. That incident aside he guarded the goals as the all australian we know,. Same goes for Watts, he was clinical as usual, exc the full back kickout he did in the last few minutes that hit dal santo on the chest. Apart from that he delivered his usual game of precise, clever football. We were the better team for about 85 of the 100 minutes. Jones and Jamar are the real deal, as we all know.. couple more A graders in there and we have a midfield, cue viney blease trengove toumpas. Lyden dunn had a couple of moments that would be regarded as franklin-like.. i've never been a big fan but some of the things he has pulled out in the last few have been A grade. What I couldn't believe was the amount of handballs that missed the target, as others have touched on, we had just too many hacks playing, i'm thinking Gillies and Nicholson first and foremost. Others inc Matt Jones and Terlich were guilty of similar but these are guys who have just started their journey We need to be fielding a 22 that doesnt make thse basic mistakes... call me captain obvious..We could not connect 3 or 4 possession changes without some hack fluffing it up, for the season proper we will have trengove and mckenzie in there, kicking to clark and dawes instead of nobody, as was the case yesterday. Obviously, we lost a game because of a 15 minute period domination, this has been the pattern for the last few years, and is clearly our biggest challenge. Despite my general distrust of stats, we beat them for I50s and we didnt have our best 2 monster forwards down there. Davey played a disgusting game. Almost as bad as having 21 in the squad.. I have been a huge fan over his career but at this point i view him as a cancer that must be removed. You didnt see any of the power sides over the last few carrying a prissy, selfish, primadonna in the forward pocket. Apart from a 15 minute period we were quite good despite the fact our opponent was clearly at higher strength than us. Clark Dawes Blease Viney Trengove McDonald we are so much better than that, these guys take the place of the hacks we saw out there yesterday I am well known as a doom-and-gloomer but i left cranbourne yesterday with a slight spring in my step. Everbody was expecting the 5 goal lead at 3QT to become a 10 goal win, but they had more mettle than that.For this preseason in general I am very confident we will move from 4 wins to 8-9, possibly more if a certain view like sylvia and grimes can up the ante BTW I saw some knocks on Toumpas and I wonder if some people have the slightest idea about football. He spent a lot of time on the bench, but when involved he showed why (similar to Trengove) he was the captain of SA. He went back and nailed that goal from about 50 in high winds and it confrimed his class for mine. Bottom line: If we can address our propensity to get owned for 15 minutes a game, we will approach 8-10 wins this year

Watts did some good things yesterday. He is calm and composed and generally wins more 50/50s than he loses. He's been very good in that role and I can certainly see him continue to play well as a rebounding defender this year. We don't have many players in our defence with his sort of composure and distribution under pressure, so it makes him avery important player for us. I though Terlich was good, although I think he's a better attacker than defender at the moment. He's good with the footy and calm, but he needs to find the balance between his offence and defence. Jamar was good, as he should have been. I think, despite Sellar's excellent form, that Pederson is the better player for us in his role. He's a better runner and that's required pushing up the ground in the role they'll play. Pederson did some very good things that created opportunities for us, even if they didn't get on the stats sheet. He's a big, mobile body. Hopefully he is good enough in the ruck to play the role, although he broke even with the other back up rucks in Kosi and Blake. Sellar is a taller, stronger option, but I don't think that this is the role we need with Dawes and Clark to return. Our defensive system is much better this year. You can tell that they are better drilled now and fitter, but we it isn't yet natural enough for us to do it without thought. In the second quarter we let them get the ball over the back and they go some very easy goals. Other than that we were probably the better side. We do need, however, just that extra bit of class in teh midfield to be able to turn our half chances into easy chances, and our good play into goals. Just lacked that hint of crispness when it counted. St Kilda had some very classy midfielders that consistently took the chances to create that came to them.

Let's not forget also that apart from Clark and Dawes being missing, Sam Blease kicked five goals against the Saints when we last played against them.

Two weeks in a row. Pinching myself.

Nope, he did take a big hanger, second quarter I think it was, right on the outer wing! A few observations: Dunn's intelligent kicking today was a definite highlight. He was able to use the sheer depth of his kicks as a weapon with the breeze, and smart enough to keep them low and 'steered' to teammates against it. Apart from N Jones easily our best out there today. The classic sneak supergoal a special, someone else hesitantly lining up 55 out with the breeze, gives the handball to Dunn just behind him, who unleashes with the perfect right-left wind bias from 60 out, never looked like missing. The Saints also tried to setup Aaron Siposs with the same thing to no success, he is also a superb long kick. N Jones the spark all day, again. I expect he'll wear a hard tag most games this year as he really is our only decent mid. Magner got better and better as the game went on after a slow start, I think this is a regular thing with him as his lack of pace means the game speed has to come back to his level after quarter time. Nevertheless, he was very effective after that interval today. Jamar killed them, but wily vets such as Del Santo, Hayes and Montagna seemed to read him better than our mids. The backup ruck spot would have to be Sellars right now. Not only is he showing an improved attack on his marking leads, but he seems much more lively than Pederson. I think only one of those two can play in the side at any one time. The free kick count was horribly lopsided. A lot the of ones we gave away were deserved, but tellingly a lot of the 50-50 ones went against us. Our ill-discpline wasn't as bad as the counts suggest. Really like the look of Matt Jones in particular, just looks comfortable at this level. Terlich also impressed as the game wore on in the last line of defence, will be a handy backup midsized/small defender. As mentioned by Allen Jakovich in the first half some of our structures really held up, forcing the Saints into skill errors and numerous out on the fulls against the wind. It's still the short handballs to guys standing still that kills us however, how does this ghastly habit develop? Hogan for the first time at this level had a defender play him very, very tightly all day, always never more than a short distance off his back. I think it was Dempster, who was All-Australian recently. Nevertheless his sheer workrate and determination to get to every contest meant he still contributed positively. Still disappointed in the relative anonymity of Luke Tapscott. He kicked one nice goal very early in the first, then had a couple of noticeable touches in the last quarter, but in between that nothing. No way is he in the side for Round 1. Without looking in great detail, I assume the 'outs' for us today far outweighed St Kildas. A lineup that includes Riewoldt, Milne, Kosi, Hayes, Del Santo, Montagna, Fisher, Gilbert, Jones etc etc is just about as good as they get.

There is nothing worse than someone who starts a thread in order to be derogatory about a player, but gives absolutely nothing in their critique. It's almost like you hope others will provide the analysis that you can't. Frawley did well defensively, but does make poor decisions - sometimes. He's very quick, tough, and athletic, but can infringe and will never be a Matty Scarlett, who was a genius in that he always made the right choice. Frawley is a very valuable player.

This from Adam Cooper's report on the game in today's Sunday Age:- ... and this ... Saints' burst makes Demons pay

Some observations -Our bench rotations allowed stkilda players to get free, in which the saints kicked a couple of easy goals. - gillies is half the player of rivers. - davey took a courageous mark, and won a very tough contested possession. He will play very good footy for us this year. - hogan will be a gun. He has the swagger. - Joel Mac is not good enough. - we needed jetta and mckenzie for some hard dogged scrapping. - frawley looks a little lost - Dunn will be an elite backman - terlich looks like he belongs - tapscott nailed a bloke, neeld must find a position for him. He is too good to waste or trade. - seller has long arms and can crumb. I think he is a good back up player - pederson had a good first half -

I hate posts like this. You can't be bothered - or just can't - pinpoint the real issue, so you just assassinate his character instead, when you have no idea if he has a big head or not. Classic keyboard hero behaviour.

PENDULUM by The Oracle The nature of the NAB Cup dictates that, for a majority of clubs, it's more like a series of exhibition trial games and experimentation once the triple header season opener is out of the way. And so was for Melbourne in 2013. The NAB Cup campaign was over on opening night. It managed to accumulate an irrelevant four points (which the football world rightly ignored because it was the sort of game usually reserved for yesterday's venue at Casey Fields) but if there was a silver lining it had to be that the Demons only put in two poor quarters for the journey and they were undermanned in both of them. The first was against a fresh Richmond in the opening quarter of week one, the other in the the second term yesterday. Of course, that 10-12 minute patch against St. Kilda was a total disaster, reminiscent of all of the worst aspects of the past half decade. Melbourne fiddled with the ball, turned it over too easily and succumbed to pressure in the heat coughing up goal after goal. During that time the Demons were vulnerable in the midfield and gave away too many easy possessions (including an ungodly number of frees) that enabled the Saints to rebound with ease and dominate. In the batting of an eyelid the pendulum swung from a point where Melbourne doubled St. Kilda's score to exactly the reverse and the contest was over. I'm not sure what it means but during the rest of the game, the Dees were good but who knows these days, how much teams are really trying in exhibition matches of this sort? What we do know is that, of the combatants, it was St Kilda that took what was close to its best line-up to Casey Fields with a strong and dominant midfield and its small forwards dominating when push came to shove (Milne and Milera kicking four goals during that purple patch) while Melbourne either rested or was forced to leave out players through injury who will at least be under strong consideration for selection in most post positions on the ground. Three key position certainties were out of the action - Tom McDonald (defence) and Mitch Clark and Chris Dawes (forward). Given the contribution of the opposition small forwards to Melbourne's demise Nev Jetta and James Strauss would have been handy and Jordie McKenzie would have been able to annoy the living suitcases out of one of their dominant midfielders. And if you insert Jack Trengove, Sam Blease, Jack Viney and Rohan Bail into the midfield mix, you might just be able to blunt the sort of run on to which the team was subjected. Also rested this week was the kid from Clackline, WA Dean Kent who has impressed as a medium forward who knows how to kick a goal and who showed some promise in the earlier games. But what about those who took part and what about the other 65-70 minutes of the game? Melbourne started like a house on fire in the hot conditions with Mark Jamar owning the ruck and giving Nathan Jones and newcomers David Rodan first use of the ball. Two other recruits in Shannon Byrnes and Cameron Pedersen were giving the Saints plenty to think about and the Demons were out to a 22-point lead with the aid of the breeze by the halfway mark of the first term thanks to a 9 pointer from Lynden Dunn. They then lost the ascendency in the second half of the opening term and this lull in intensity probably set the scene for the Saints' revival in the second. Melbourne needs to learn from their relentless non stop push once they gained control. You rarely win if you cough up seven or eight unanswered goals to your opponent. The Demons fought back in the third but couldn't peg back the Saints' lead sufficiently to fight their way back into contention despite making a fist of it in the last when the hot and steamy conditions had taken the sting out of the match. The pendulum was never going to swing far enough for the Demons. Apart from Nathan Jones and Jamar (35 hit outs), Melbourne was well served by Lynden Dunn, Dan Nicholson and Colin Sylvia while Dean Terlich showed why he was plucked out of the SANFL to resurrect his career. However, if the day is ever going to be remembered for anything other than the bunfight needed to get out of the car park at the end, it will be for that period during which the pendulum swung so dramatically against a hapless Melbourne. For them to improve this season, the Demons will need to eliminate the lapses although we shouldn't forget that the nature of the NAB Cup means that the makeup of teams will vary and they definitely came up against a team that was much closer to full strength on the day. MELBOURNE1.2.2.23 1.3.4.31 2.5.6.54 2.7.6.66 ST. KILDA 0.1.2.8 2.6.8.62 2.8.8.74 2.10.13.91 Supergoals Melbourne Dunn N Jones St. Kilda Newnes N Dal Santo Goals Melbourne Sellar 2 Byrnes Hogan Rodan Tapscott Toumpas St. Kilda Milera Milne 2 Dal Santo Dennis-Lane Gilbert Hayes Koschitzke Riewoldt Best Melbourne N Jones Rodan, Dunn Terlich Jamar Sylvia Nicholson St. Kilda Dal Santo Newnes Montagna Milne Steven Geary Roberton INJURIES Melbourne Nil St. Kilda Nil Reports Nil Umpires Stuart Wenn Ben Ryan Shane McInerney Crowd 5,000 (est.) at Casey Fields STATISTICS Disposals - Melbourne 247 St. Kilda 250 Kicks - Melbourne 137 St. Kilda 164 Handballs - Melbourne 110 St. Kilda 86 Free Kicks - Melbourne 10 St. Kilda 23 Clearances - Melbourne 23 St. Kilda 27 Centre - Melbourne 11 St. Kilda 7 Stoppages - Melbourne 12 St. Kilda 20 Inside 50 - Melbourne 37 St. Kilda 31 Marks in 50 - Melbourne 5 St. Kilda 4 Contested Possessions Melbourne 87 St. Kilda 94 Tackles - Melbourne 21 St. Kilda 51 Hit-Outs - Melbourne 36 St. Kilda 13 Melbourne [K H M HO T SG.G.B DT] Colin Garland 13 2 8 0 0 0.0.0 64 James Magner 9 8 4 0 4 0.0.0 63 David Rodan 5 7 5 0 3 0.1.0 62 Dean Terlich 6 9 5 0 0 0.0.0 53 Nathan Jones 9 7 3 0 1 1.0.0 52 Lynden Dunn 11 3 3 0 0 1.0.0 48 Mark Jamar 3 3 1 32 0 0.0.0 47 Joel MacDonald 9 7 3 0 0.0.0 47 Colin Sylvia 8 4 2 0 2 0.0.0 43 James Sellar 4 4 3 0 0 0.2.2 40 Jack Grimes 5 4 2 0 2 0.0.0 38 Jeremy Howe 4 4 3 0 1 0.0.1 35 Matt Jones 6 5 3 0 1 0.0.0 35 James Frawley 6 4 2 0 0 0.0.0 33 Tom Gillies 3 8 4 0 1 0.0.0 33 Jack Watts 5 4 2 0 1 0.0.0 33 Shannon Byrnes 5 2 4 0 1 0.1.0 32 Cameron Pedersen 3 7 2 4 0 0.0.1 32 Daniel Nicholson 5 8 1 0 0 0.0.0 31 Aaron Davey 6 0 2 0 0 0.0.1 26 Jimmy Toumpas 6 5 1 0 1 0.0.0 26 Luke Tapscott 3 3 0 0 1 0.1.0 25 Jesse Hogan 2 0 1 0 1 0.0.1 14 Michael Evans 2 2 1 0 0 0.0.0 10 NAB CUP APPEARANCES - 2013 [Week 1 v NM, Rich, Week 2 v PA, Week 3 v STK - square = played game] 1 Hogan, Jesse (new) ■■■■ 2 Jones, Nathan ■■ - ■ 4 Watts, Jack ■■ - ■ 5 Toumpas, Jimmy (new) - ■ - ■ 6 Dawes, Chris (new) ■ - - - 7 Viney, Jack (new) ■ ■ - - 8 Frawley, James ■■ - ■ 9 Trengove, Jack - - - - 10 Byrnes, Shannon (new) ■ - - ■ 11 Clark, Mitchell - - - - 12 Sylvia, Colin ■■■■ 13 McKenzie, Jordie ■■- - 14 Dunn, Lynden ■■ - ■ 15 Rodan, David (new) ■ - - ■ 17 Blease, Sam ■ - - - 19 Strauss, James - - ■ - 20 Garland, Colin ■■ - ■ 21 Pedersen, Cameron (new) ■■■■ 22 Magner, James ® ■■■■ 23 Tynan, Josh - - ■- 25 McDonald, Tom ■■- - 26 Nicholson, Daniel ■■■■ 27 Gillies, Tom (new) ■ - ■■ 28 Macdonald, Joel - ■■■ 29 VACANT 30 Sellar, James - ■■■ 31 Grimes, Jack ■■ - ■ 32 Evans, Michael ■ - ■■ 33 Barry, Dominic (new) -- ■ - 34 Kent, Dean (new) ■ - ■- 35 Tapscott, Luke - - ■■ 36 Davey, Aaron - ■■■ 37 Gawn, Max -- - - 38 Howe, Jeremy ■■ - ■ 39 Jetta, Neville ■■■- 40 Jamar, Mark ■ - - ■ 41 Davis, Troy -- ■- 42 Spencer, Jake - ■■ - 43 Taggert, Rory -- ■ - 44 Bail, Rohan -- - - 45 Jones, Matt (new) - ■■■ 46 Terlich, Dean (new) - ■■■ 47 Couch, Thomas ® - ■■- 48 Fitzpatrick, Jack - - ■ - 49 Stark, Nathan ® (new) -- ■ - 50 Clisby, Mitch ® (new) -- --

James Frawley deserves more kudos from the media, from AFL aficionados, from every footy follower. He rarely gets beaten. Has survived an avalanche of inside 50s over the last five years that would have broken many a defender, remains strong, committed and brave. ALWAYS beats the Riewoltds. Our lazy (inept?) midfield rarely give him support - Jonesy excused. Very, very, important player.

Out of curiosity I used to read some of your posts because I couldn't work out if you were trying to be funny or you were just stupid; I've come to the conclusion you weren't trying to be funny.

No, not yet. We need at least two more top draft picks and a couple of experienced players of the likes of Brown, Goodes etc. Not suggesting these two, just players of similar ability but younger. As I have said before, IMO, we have recruited well this year and a repeat performance would stand us in good stead for a premiership. I think Gawn could be the key. If he can keep fit he will improve our ruck strength immeasurably and he does have more versatility around the ground than Jamar. I would love to see Mark do more around the ground even though he is a workhorse in the ruck. Jesse Hogan too will be a key figure in our climb up the ladder next year. Only time will tell with these predictions.

... and he's been playing in senior company (albeit at SANFL level) for two years which means he won't find it as hard to adapt to the pace of things as some others might.

It didn't fill me with great confidence to hear Neeld say he is competing with Sellar. We lost that trade badly if that's the case and Neeld is probably thinking the same thing.

Any danger we can go back to talking about spears and heads instead of abusing each other?

I love Toumpas and he'll become a terrific player, but he had a poor game. The pick up in pace exposed him a little, but it didn't help that he had ordinary players around him. Once he gets comfortable with the speed and our midfield improves in general he'll be good. He'll play most games this year, because the club needs him to get experience and he's good enough.

Not sure if OP serious.

Context 'Roger', context....

You're getting boring. Talk some footy.

The biggest issue for our team right now is our general kicking skills and decision making. What often happens is that a poor disposer of the ball often makes poor decisions as well. We're nowhere near creative enough with our handballing and kicking. Our skills don't match it with the best teams. In fact, we're a long way behind. We can win all the KPI's in the world but if we don't retain possession of the ball we can't kick enough goals. Sounds quite simple but that is the brutal reality. Aussie rules is a lot like soccer in that sense. In the old days when the ball was kicked to a contest it was different. But there is a solution. We need to work quadruply hard on our skills under pressure at training. The players should have a decent base fitness by now and besides, there are drills that can help your skills enormously whilst at the same time help your general fitness. The coaching staff should have drills in place where a player needs to hit a small target by foot whilst under extreme pressure. These drills should involve using either foot and the distances should vary (20 metres, 30, 40 and 50 metres). Similar drills can be done using handballing. To me, these are the type of drills we should be doing most of the time. Incorporating improving a players 'vision' is vital as well. You cannot have too many blokes in your side who can't dispose of the ball consistently well. At one stage last season, I counted about 8 or 9 players in our team who had poor/average disposal skills. You cannot hope to win games of footy if that is the case. As in often the case, the players who are the 'goers' are the ones who often can't kick or handpass well.(under pressure) Hard at it types + good skills under pressure = a winning team. Obviously this involves having good coaching as well. Playing as a team should be a pre-requisite and this is a coach driven area.

Firstly, you and Stuie should just get a room. I'm pretty sure that most on here find your slagging matches simply tiring, and what's worse..........boring. Try giving it a rest.Secondly, the idea that we have a chronic lack of forward firepower based on yesterday is too obviously ignoring who wasn't there to be serious. Clark and Blease were our most effective forwards last year, whether you like Blease up front or not. Dawes was brought to the club to be a forward, and that's our 3 best or most nominal forwards not playing. What do you imagine would happen to ANY team's firepower if you take away their best 3 forwards? Was the OP serious, because I don't understand the logic of the criticism.

Terlich and Gillies ahead of Watts, and you accuse everyone else of being "footy dumb"...

Ben, you provide interesting input here but you are also the first to throw around the label of "footy stupid". Indeed few seem to meet the bar that you set. Yet when someone says we've done nothing to address the forward line or questions where effectiveness might develop, which flies in the face of the facts, you call it a good post?

Pencil him in for round 1. Wiill Play as 3rd tall for M Clark if fit and C Dawes. That makes Howe as the 4th tall. Sellar also will pinch hit in the ruck when Jamar has rest. Pederson back will start in VFL, will be good, he will have to earn his spot

Who would want to be a backman in this team? We get smashed out of the middle consistently and the ball heads into our forward line at a million miles an hour. It would do anyones head in and make them indecisive. Similarly you need mids who run and spread so the backs have someone to kick to and can play an attacking game. Jamar got 35 hit outs against NO opposition (McEvoy and Hickey not playing) and we still lost the clearances, who the hell was he hitting it too? Look at the tackle count , how much pressure did we apply? None. Don't blame Chip, look at the midfield personnel and game plan. Fix that and things will improve. And to anyone who says it was only a practise game read Barassi and his quote on practise to be perfect, you train how you play and the practise form does not inspire hope for a season any better than the last.

One thing I have learnt on this forum is that if you have an opinion on Jack Watts, you are better of keeping it to yourself, because no matter what it is, good or bad, or how correct you are, there will be a few who try to shoot you down in flames.

Ben, this bloke has a clear pro Adelaide, anti neeld agenda. He furiously denied it last year but it was plain. AoB tried to get him to argue facts and this joker just stopped posting. I don't think he is 'typical MFC" - he has a clear agenda that he won't admit to and is using ideas he doesn't understand to back it up.

I'm not arguing that we were killed in the clearances or couldn't get it inside 50. In fact, I'm not trying to use stats prove or disprove how well we have played. All I'm saying is that you can't read stats and gain a full story of how a game has unfolded. An inside 50 could be a drilled/well placed kick from a midfielder onto the [censored] of a leading forward... or it could be a scruber kick/handpass (slightly inside the arc) directly to the opposition resulting in a rebounding attack. An "ineffective disposal" of Jones or Magner out of the centre circle may be a clearance kick under pressure that results in a another stoppage 50 metres towards our goal. Alternatively, an effective disposal could be a kick sideways or backwards that does nothing but waste 3 minutes at the end of a quarter.

Disagree on both counts. The modern game pretty much requires a second ruck who can go forward and kick goals and Martin can be that option. Competed extremely well inside 50 tonight, and actually took one of the best contested marks I've seen in this NAB Cup. Admittedly at 26 you have to wonder how much more improvement is in him, but he strikes me as a late bloomer just entering his best period. His athleticism for his size is pretty remarkable and if he can just get his radar for goal sorted, look out. I was sorry to see him go and that hasn't changed.Beamer I couldn't care less that he's gone. Spat in the face of every supporter with his piddly efforts of last year and strongly suspect he wasn't the greatest influence in the change room. That said, he has shown in this pre-season what he is truly capable of, winning alot of contested ball and working hard all over the ground. At his best, he's a sizeable loss, no doubt.

You sum up many Melbourne supporters. You don't realise that Rivers left the club as a free agent and you don't get that Moloney and Martin didn't "buy in". You don't get that Martin's best position is in the ruck and that he's a very average key forward. We all know that Martin, who is an uncoordinated gumby, can have his 'athletic' good days, but he's no loss. He certainly doesn't make us better. And Moloney picked on crap sides and was a dud against the good ones. A B grader if I'm kind. The footy stupid are alive and well.

We didn't get rid of Rivers or Moloney, both left of their own accord under FA. We had a season full of threads trashing Moloney, and now he's gone it was a "big mistake".

More so injured last year. Has and will continue to go alright given the ruck position. I still say we kept the wrong bloke.

We gave him away for peanuts and I still believe it was premature. Who would you prefer as a second ruck option out of Pedersen and Martin? I know what my choice would be.

Stef Martin looking good for Brisbane, for all the masochists.

Pates - great pics but you didn't happen to get one of the team running out today, did you? My grandson was one of the mascots. He wore the number 31 which meant that he made history today being the first mascot to run out with the captain of an MFC team with both wearing that number for almost half a century. And we all know what the Demons did the last time that happened!

Rubbish... demonstrates your understanding of the game and of talent. Watts is one of the better draft choices we have made in a dismal period. For you to jerk around like you do is clear evidence of trolling behaviour. I don't know if you were at Nab 1 v Nth etc... or have ever noticed Jacks highlights over his short career. Nothing you cough up can ever distort the fact that he is a versatile running tall that has excellent kicking skills, very good marking skills and great play-reading ability. If you can't see that you are a poor judge.

Completely wrong...Watts is one of the most nimble blokes ive seen for his size, and is one of the best kicks in our team , top 3 easy.

I eagerly await where Cats and Pies are playing

Brent maloney has given away 4 frees so far in the brisbane game, umps must think he is still wearing red and blue.

Pederson is a total dud...he better not make round 1

Worst trade ever. Should have kept Gysberts