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Let's face it, the shoulda, woulda, coulda stuff is not "evidence"' but rather a load of bs concocted by the parties to get a negotiated result to save everyone the cost of a Supreme Court stoush that would have cost far more than $500k and damaged some reputations irreparably. The fact of the matter is that the both the AFL and the MFC held the opinions of senior legal counsel that no case of tanking against us could be sustained. The top brass of the AFL have admitted they can't define tanking. Chris Connolly and to a lesser extent, Dean Bailey, were the patsies. I hope when the dust settles, Chris gets the rumoured gig at Casey so that he can gainfully fill the time till 1 February 2014 doing valuable work for the Scorpions within the Casey community which will also ultimately benefit the club he loves.

Martin Flanagan is a shining light at the Age newspaper and is one of the few reasons why I regret that I no longer subscribe to the newspaper these days. He writes stories about the people of the game and his article about Chris Connolly yesterday (difficult to find on line via the iPhone but worth the search) is sheer brilliance - A good man to fill a silence. It touches the heart, essence and personality of the man who was much more harshly treated than the salary cap cheating CEO of Adelaide and who obviously took an enormous hit for the club he loves. Flanagan - There's lots more in Flanagan's magical writing and I understand the man has his detractors (and I'll come back to this later) but I feel that for the time being we should just reflect on the above and ask why such a dedicated person and a hero of the club has been made to pay such a heavy price for being loyal.

It is always the most loyal who pay the heaviest price when an organisation gets fingered. MF wrote a beauty on how Tassy is being bullied by ignorant writers with no knowledge of the place. The comparison was drawn between the European union. WA was cast as Germany and Tassie as Greece (economically at least). Back to CC: He and Schwabby made a concerted effort to reunite the club with Demons people from the Eighties after the Gardner /MacNamee fiascos. He has stepped on the most toes, probably forced the most retirements and departures. Looked at the draft for the meat market that it is and manipulated it to our advantage. Lets not dress it up. Someone had to do it and I'm glad he did. Loyalty is important to him , so wankers off the field who now work elsewhere or not at all and think it's a revolving door of AFL mates can think again when it comes to us - BP,Flack ,Pauolo, etc There is more to the bleatings of the Jnr McDonald faction than is let on I reckon-and his supporters are covered in egg. The tail was wagging the dog at this club. I saw it myself when I watched the boys train at the beach. Rivers just stopped for a drink and a chat with the coaches before walking back to it (I was shocked). I dont trust a man who hasn't made any enemies . So I trust CC and I hope he enjoys his paid leave.

Flush them out...it is the only way to move forward.

To anyone at the game on friday night, did you hear the crowd go 'Toump' (as in toomp) when he kicked the ball? Shades of 'Ooze' with Yze.

Let's not get too carried away with this sort of silly stuff about Ms. Wilson. The subject of this thread is quite serious and the fact that the tanking enquiry is over does not mean its the end of the vendetta against the club and its current board and administration. There's a lot more to come out of this and in particular the connection between her, those who snitched to the tanking enquiry and the sources of her "vault" story and other news stories that broke in 2011 and 2012 about our club. Stay tuned.

It was an impressive debut. But Barry Predergast will tell you he's no Lucas Cook.

Buddy. Would be great depth in case Hogan gets injured

Have heard this before.

Tim, I agree with you in a sense but let me tell you my main frustration first and that is the propensity of people to misinterpret what others are saying. You started off with saying that you are frustrated with "the idea that there are 'rifts' in the club which Jim Stynes supposedly eradicated". You seem to have this belief that Jim Stynes had some sort of power over disgruntled people who lost their positions on the board or lost their jobs as a result of the changes that took place when he came to power because that is the crux of the matter. Where did you get this idea from and what is your source? Jim Stynes put together a united the board (and they still appear united with the support of the majority of members to this day) but could he have done anything to prevent his predecessor from talking to the media in disparaging terms about the club over tanking at the time an AFL investigation was being instigated? Did Stynes and his board have the power to prevent disgruntled ex-board members from strongly criticising the current board over its handling of the Bailey dismissal or anything else it was doing? I don't believe that it had (or even should have had) the power to muzzle ex-Board members or ex-employees from speaking out (even if anonymously on supporter forums) if that's what they wanted. We live in a democracy and they're entitled to express their views and their feelings. The issue of whether it's appropriate for them to do so in all the circumstances is another matter. I've received a substantial amount of information from various people over the past 18 months about this issue (including one major source of information parts of which I need to respect some confidentiality over). I haven't accepted some of the things I've been told because they can't be checked. One thing I ascertained was that before the old Board left power in the hands of the Stynes administration, they requested and received an agreement from the incoming Board to refrain from issuing any criticism of them - a non-disparagement agreement if you like - which has been confirmed to me by a former board member (the confirmation gave added credibility to my main source of information). In those circumstances, I find it disappointing that any former board member found it necessary to disparage the new board (even though they didn't sign a reciprocal agreement). But to suggest that there were no remaining rifts between the old and the new (whether it be board, administration or other employees) as a result of the many changes that have taken place is naive in the extreme. I said above that there's a lot more to come out of this and in particular the connection between Wilson, those who "snitched" to the tanking enquiry and the sources of her "vault" story and other news stories that broke in 2011 and 2012 about our club. I believe that much of this emanated from some of the rifts I mention above. I will tell the full story in my own good time. Do you really think that there is no such connection or that those recently in the employ of the club didn't know what Caro knew and what she didn't know?

When it comes to players like McKenzie it is pretty simple: if you give everything, all the time, have a great attitude and expect that attitude of others - you are going to be valued. We are nowhere near good enough to think that we can 'move past' Jordie McKenzie. Occasionally on here, some slip into an alternate reality where Grimes should be moved back to the backline and Jordie told to 'take a hike' without realising that there is no replacement for them. We have a bad midfield. If you want them to be replaced it is going to take time.

Mate, I judged him the first time I saw him. I won't be changing my opinion now, or ever. You, of course, can please yourself. Btw, it was a tongue in cheek bump. But having seen your contributions on the thread I understand your sensitivity.

What were his stats for arm waving and pointing to spaces for other teamates to fill??? Yep, he would have topped them too....

Finally some one worthy of wearing the #5 of the great Ox. Very clean hands and beautiful disposal, looks a great pick up already.

But a champion team of champions will always crush the crap out of the opposition.

Some things work kind of backwards - You do the things you're scared of, and then after, you find you had the courage. We win the premiership, then we find out who are our champions, and how many we needed.

I didn't see nothin, if you didn't see nothin.

Plus If I was neeld I would sit down with the best coach in the country and pick his brain.

What we need to develop is the same attitude that the Melbourne Storm have got...since their run in with Gallop they have just refused to be beaten or lie down in anything... Similarly far more than just the Storm were over the Salary Cap, but the NRL turned a blind eye to it, as the AFL are doing to us right now. The MFC has got to adopt this attitude right now, or we are in danger of fading away...

Define 'champ'. Surely there's no magic standard, champs vary from out-and-out to common or garden. Think, last year's GF. Certainly Buddy was the biggest 'champ' running around, but the Hawks had plenty of others (potential ones anyway). How many would you ascribe to the Swans? I remember my days coaching school footy, the most memorable and satisfying win involved the whole team lifting and feeding off each other's efforts and desire. it's not something as a coach you can easily find the switch to turn on, but when it happens you have pretty much an unbeatable team on the day. On the other hand, some of the most dismal memories involved teams studded with 'champs' who failed to galvanise the rest of the team and even champion efforts across the list aren't enough when the team as a whole isn't firing. In short, the more 'champs' (however you define them) the better, but there's something else too. I saw it in the Dees in 1987, under Swooper. The way that team thrashed North in the first final on the MCG, then repeated it against the Swans the following week. The stuff of dreams...

Long long long time since I have posted anything on Demonland (as opposed to reading most days) but on this subject I feel it is worth a post even if it is shouted down. I like the majority of others here find it reprehensible that we are the only club that has been investigated of tanking. How can we be vilified when it is clear, with evidence to back it up, that at least one other club has engaged in conduct that is "prejudicial to the interests of the AFL". On this issue the AFL is clearly lacking integrity and transparency. As much as Whately has advised that the AFL does not want an investigation into this, why must we, the football community not be able to raise our concerns in regards to how our game is being run and ensure investigations and sanctions be applied equally and transparently across the AFL? Why should the Media only report what the AFL want to drip feed them? The US government has recently created a way for US citizens to raise concerns to the Whitehouse, by way of online petitions. Once a certain number of people (25000 I think) have signed up to the petition, the Whitehouse will then commence a review of the content raised in the petition, the other benefit is that the media picks up the groundswell of support from the public. Now, of course the AFL will never provide the actual vehicle to raise the petition but there are multiple web based petition sites that will allow you to direct the petition to the relevant organisation, in this case the AFL. From this site alone plus friends and family I think you could raise 2-2.5k signatories, add Melbourne supporters, anyone who doesn't like Carlton (everyone bar Carlton supporters) and supporters who actually care for the game I think you could reach somewhere between 20000-100000 signatories, promote it through social media (facebook, twitter) plus calls and SMS to SEN as well as all TV shows that take viewer input and see how long it takes for the media to reopen their investigations into the subject. Once the media know the public are interested in a story, why would they just let it go with out demanding due diligence from the AFL. Thoughts? link to one such petition site http://www.change.org/en-AU

It won't surprise me if Richmond touch us up in the regular season - they're well ahead of us now in the midfield and they've recruited well to fill some deficiencies and build their ready-to-go depth, they could have a very good year I think. Nevertheless we're better than them back and forward and if/when we bridge the midfield gap we can overtake them.

I feel the need to draw your attention to hair-dos. On Friday night, I think we witnessed 3 of the top 10 shocking hair-dos in the league. Jack Pepe le Pew Riewoldt. What the hell is that? Did you scalp a polar bear and glue it to your noggin? Dustin Martin - Setting the pace in bogan Maric - A mullet is wasted without traccy dacks and moccs The Watts beard makes him look tough(er) if nothing else

Good onya Jack. .... our culture will be rebuilt on Old Aussie Values like taking care of our friends in times of need.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d29VsG35DQM

Gerard Whately could be of great assistance in all this. I hope Vlad is marched out of his seat...soon. If as reported he did not even read the 800 page document then he has no credibility at all. This farce along with GWS, GC Suns and all the money they will ultimately waste, whilst the AFL continued to allow Etihad Stadium to be privately owned. Great record Vlad. Oh i forgot rampant drug use..

Class.

I feel aggrieved for Connolly. I know that he has made mistakes but to me the good easily outweighs the bad. There is no doubt that he has been made a scapegoat for the tanking affair. Unfortunately for Chris he has paid a high price for having a personality.

Maloney will do great in Brisbane as he is surrounded by some really good midfielders. He is just not capable of leading a midfield by himself like he was at MFC

How do you rate yourself as a judge, Red. : )

Pretty happy after Thumper's first outing. The kid is going to be very good.

Suggest you watch the Liberatore footage....

A ruckman that will play more than one good season and midfielders of class

I won't be bothering the wife tonight.

A great article from Martin Flanagan in today's Age concerning Chris Connoley. Have had a bit to do with Chris and he is an unfortunate victim in this whole saga and doesn't deserve the stigma he has been landed with. He is a true Melbourne person who has the best intentions even though his execution may at times be misinterpreted. I think he deserves more support on this forum.

AFL Intehgrity Unit = Army Intelligence = Oxymoron

Of course they would say that sort of thing. No doubt they would put down the result of their last premiership match, the First Elimination Final on Sunday, 9 September, 2012 (West Coast 24.18.162 - North Melbourne 9.12.66) to the team easing up after the five minute mark of the first quarter.

Consternation. Watching one of your key bowlers bowl one of your own batsmen...

Hawthorn lose both games has a lovely ring to it...

Mckenzies game is based on getting to the ball 2nd. Seriously doesnt take much to wonder wjy we are being smashed in the midfield. We have 2 mids in the centresquare chasing the ball while other teams have 3-4 (Jamar does not chase after the tap)

I wasn't sure when I left Etihad as to whether to be happy or disappointed with our performance on the night. In the end, my thinking was on the positive side because, on the way home I met a person involved in the fitness industry with connections with AFL trainers who told me that there was a view among those involved in the industry that Dean Bailey left us with a basket case of a team that was way behind best practice. He said that he has observed some outstanding improvement since Mark Neeld took over. He also said he felt there was a noticeable improvement in our skills coinciding with our better fitness. We're be no means out of the woods but at least it's something to hang your hat on.

Dane Swan? Adam Goodes? Jobe Watson? Where were they at 17 or 18?

Just in reply to the OP is it too late to move Toumpas to a clean flowing exciting number 1 and get Hulk Hogan in the number 5 of the OX!

When all we had was the tanking thread, many were crying out for the footy to start. Now the footy's started, I just wish we could go back to the tanking thread.

I liked Watts' game tonight. At one stage I thought he split second hesitated down back kicking across the back half, which led to his teammate to be closed down. I think he will gain more confidence and urgency to iron out these split second hesitations. And his one on one work defensively needs a little more work and experience when caught deep, but I think it will improve. His kicking is a major plus down back.

Just got back, here's my take. The main difference between the two games (apart from the obvious difference in fatigue level between us and Richmond) was in the forward structure: first game we built a solid forward line around Dawes, Hogan, Pederson and Howe. Byrnes was presenting at their feet, and Kent also looks a likely type playing across the half forward line. Not only is that (sans Clark, obviously) close to our A1 forward line, but Dawes was conspicuous in the way he was directing traffic and making sure we held our structure. We never got pulled out of shape, so there was always something for the midfielders to look up and kick to. A couple of leads and marks from Howe, in particular, looked sharper than any Melbourne side I've seen in ages. In the second game, Dawes didn't play, Hogan was used sparingly, and after Spencer went down, Pederson spent a fair bit of time in the ruck. Suddenly Colin Sylvia was our major marking target across half forward, so the midfield looked a heck of a lot worse, because there was nobody presenting, and no big body for the get-out-of-jail-free kick to a contest. Then the smaller forwards started creeping up the ground going after the ball, and the whole structure collapsed (I was reasonably impressed that the coaching staff obviously adjusted to this and altered things, and the last quarter was significantly better from a structural point of view ... there's an example of game-day coaching from Neeld, if anyone wanted it.) Oh, and Hogan is gonna get me to a bunch of Casey games this year. Loved him. He, Dawes and Clark are (touch wood) going to be pretty incredible.

I have a few questions that have been worrying me for a while. I only listened to the Richmond game so i'm happy to be corrected. But i keep thinking, Why is Royal still coaching the midfield? I agree that he has little to work with but the midfield is constantly beaten in defense and attack and we are ALWAYS beaten in the possession count. Most possessions come from the midfield and Royal is constantly out coached by the opposition. Why isnt Neeld taking a more hands on approach at training. He came to the club as an assistant who developed teams very well. Yes he had Swan and Pendles plus others to work with, but he also has Grimes, Jones, Sylvia and Trengrove etc to work with. I'm only going by the training reports and I hear about Neil Craig taking charge but never the coach (Neeld). I thought Neil Craig was Neelds superior, but it seems Craig is taking a more pro-active approach this pre season. Maybe at the Pies Malthouse took a director role with his assistants and told them how to teach the midfield, forwards and backs. But Malthouse has decades experience and has learnt how to lead his staff. Neeld has had one BAD year as a senior coach and seems distant in 'Open' training sessions. I would rather Neeld take a MUCH more active role teaching his assistants and his players at the same time. If I am right, its too early for Neeld to play the directing coach role. I like Rawlings and Brown. IMO they are very astute assistants. My thoughts on why are Mitch Clark played like he was an elite forward last year. In half the games and probably half the opportunities (the club were pathetic in forward 50 entries) he kicked more goals in a season than he had in a year at the Lions. He was a star. Well done Brown. Tom McDonald played extremely well at CHB on some very good forwards without a pre-season directly under Rawlings. Rawlings got him going well with limited time. Well done Rawlings Blease was a dangerous small forward when he got fit Garland and Rivers had some good games despite never playing forward in their AFL careers. The played above their weight Nathan Jones had an break out season. BUT, he was always an elite trainer and was always going to stand out due to his Elite fitness lifestyle. Watts played some very good games at HB with limited training under Rawlings. Dunn also played some good games at the end of season with limited training under Rawlings. Some other thoughts IMO Grimes is potentially a very good midfielder (at least). he hasnt the impact he should have. Too much emphasis on Trengrove being captain. He was coached to be defensive and only now is he stating he didnt attack the game that made him one of the most potentially dangerous midfielders in the game (Royal HMMMM) McKenzie is not a modern game midfielder. He can tag but not impact offensively. 10 to 20 yrs ago he would have thrived. He is a waste of a player in the midfield. At the Hawks Nicholson, McKenzie, Spencer, Bail, Davis, J Mac would not be on there list. Yes, 40 of of our guys would not be on there list, but the named players would not have reached there top 100 draft prospect in any draft as they cant dispose of the ball consistently well Frawley has gone backwards due to intense pressure as a backman. Chip is a match winner if only he could use his run and carry. Neeld is coaching him into a defense player only and not allowing him to attack. Play TMc at full back as his skills are average and play Chip at CHB to defend and rebound. I dont give a flying **** if TMc has elite endurance. Chip has speed that the backline needs when rebounding Thats my rant

As they are all answerable ultimately to the AFL, perhaps he should be asking why Demetriou hasn't tendered his resignation.

Plastic drop-sheets Roll of cling wrap Etorphine Sturdy table Set of knives Buzz saw Durable black garbage bag Boat A prominent bitter muck-racking gossip journalist's address. Smokes, alcohol and Ice-cream.