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Guys, surely by now you can realise how terrible you are at predicting players. On this forum, I've read that Watts was the next riewoldt, Bate was going to be a gun, Wonaeamirri was going to be AA forward pocket, Gysberts was going to be a silky smooth taller midfielder like Joel Corey, Jamie Bennell was talked up the same way that Barry is now, Lucas Cook was going to be a partner in crime with Watts and labelled the 'Twin-towers', Morton the next Goddard etc. Can't we all just shut up and stop pretending like each draft pick we got was a bargain and more special. We are one of the worst teams in the comp at the moment and the only way we are going to get better is by recruiting players from other clubs like Dawes, Pederson and Mitch Clark.

In the wash up if we complete trade week and have acquired Viney, Hogan, Barry, Byrnes, Dawes, Pedersen and Ray with pick 4 still in the drawer then it's been a brilliant off-season on the back of landing Clark last year. Five or 6 of those will be in our best 22 next year and I suspect all in 2014, which will mean a third of the team's best 22 will have changed within one season. This is the type of momentum that starts filtering through an entire group as they see tangible improvements that they're desperate to be a part of. Add natural improvement through development, fitness, and maturation of others on the list and some blue sky will definitely start appearing regularly.

Surely we're not stupid enough to spend the final week of the trading period throwing away assets for this guy when our midfield is so poor and we've already got a pick that is more than enough to pay. If they don't want 49 then move on. Just insane.

You've obviously never seen Pedesen play. He's far better than Sellar. It's a bit of a mystery that he hasn't had more of a go at North, but when they've got Petrie, Tarrant and Hansen all in the forward line, plus Aaron Black developing it makes some sense. Pedersen appears to me to be the classic money-ball player. Despite only playing 16 games his numbers are very good. In his last 12 games of AFL footy he's hit the scoreboard 11 times and kicked 3 goals three times. I reckon he'll be a great get for the Dees. And I don't think we paid "overs" for Hogan. For me he was a "whatever it takes" assignment. We clearly did a deal with GWS that allowed us to get Viney at 27 and some rate Barry as a second round quality pick, so dropping 7 spots to get him and making sure of Hogan, with Viney at 27 is great trading. When Hogan becomes the dominant CHF of his decade you'll consider it a small price to pay. And there's no way the club gives up what it did if they too didn't envisage this type of quality player.

I'm a cleanskin at nearly 40 but I will happily tatto my forehead for a flag at this stage .

FCS the doom merchants are out again, pouring foul substances on our brief periods of joy and anticipation once again. We have few enough, can't we enjoy them untainted please? Of course none of us KNOW just how the new recruits will turn out, but just a touch of positivity at least for now wouldn't hurt, surely. GO DEMONS - AIM FOR FINALS IN 2013! (Sorry if that offends some 'supporters' here)!

Please, let's not make comparisons. We'll end up 'Prendergrasting' the boy. Let him settle into the preseason and expectations of playing AFL footy.

Don't care if we overpay for Pedersen and Ray. If we aren't intending to use the picks then they, like Martin, are useful only if they get our intended targets. If Martin, 49 and 63 gets Pedersen and Ray then that is the plus on what has been an A grade offseason.

I like the fact that Barry was apparently put on our radar by McDonald and Taggert. They will know what he's like.

Full time - Melbourne 10.3.63 to Essendon 4.1.25. Match against pies now in progress. Some bikies are waiting to play a game after, so if we all die carry on in our names.

Martin averages twice as many marks as Jamar, so what does that say about Jamar if Martin can't mark? While Jamar kills him for taps, he also kills most of his taps by dropping them to his feet. Lets face it, about all Jamar does well is tap it to his feet. Around the ground he's mostly useless. One good season in his whole career and we think he's a trade untouchable? I'm not a great Martin fan, but neither do I think Jamar is our future. Which one has more trade value? Jamar.

I could be massively wrong on this point, but I think recruiting Dawes has made Petterd's skills more relevant to our forward line. Petterd cannot seem to hold the first or second tall position in our forward line. That said, I think next to Clark, Dawes and Byrnes, there is now a role for a leading type, mid sized forward like Petterd. I think he could add dimensionality to our forward line now. Will be disappointed to see him traded.

I think one point that hasn't been touched on regarding the way the club has worked this trade period is the fact that at the moment we don't have a head recruiter. Given this lack, we are far less likely to land quality players with our later picks, which could be part of the reason we are so willing to send them elsewhere and take known quantities in their place. We still have pick 4, which will land us a highly rated player with very little research required. No doubt it will be someone with a reputation for work ethic and attack on the ball. Other than that, we will use late picks on rookie upgrades and apparently be content to wait until next year when we have a fully functioning recruitment team once more. Also of note is that the players we are targeting (with the exception of Pederson) have all played in grand finals. Obviously we are bringing them in for that experience as much as for what they will bring to the team on game day. If we land Ray that will be grand final players from three clubs with three very different styles who will all be bringing that experience and knowledge to the club to share with the rest of the team.

My personal opinion is that Bailey could talk the talk but he set an already somewhat lazy team backwards a long way. Think about it this way - recruiting wise - we came from a forward 50 inhabited by such names as Neitz, Vardy, Farmer, Schwartz, Robbo and Uze which Daniher then dumbed down to a few fails, Holland, Miller, Moorcroft and then Bailey came in and added such unfulfilled flakey talent as Wonna, Jurrah and well no one really... Where we are at in 2012 is much less a reflection of Mark Neeld as a coach as it is a reflection of the culture of the players when Neeld started. cancelling time trials or the classic under Daniher of Byron Pickett smsing in that he wouldnt be at a game because he was too hung over. LOL. its about much higher standards at training and at commitment to be elite - about players 'behaving their way in or out' - he has set high standards. Not all of the players I thought would respond have and some of the players that seem to have responded I am surprised by. And lastly now in the trade and FA period all the holes I personally have assessed and seen myself are the targets of aggressive trade movements. Im impressed. neeld seems to be a realist rather than another blind faithmonger of potential that we have a history of squandering or spoiling with kids gloves.

Of course they were. But it was still a good deal for us, and what we wanted. Both clubs won; we didn't get stooged.

Taggert and Evans fit and with a preseason is like drafting 2 new mids. I think both of these particularly Taggert could be accomplished AFL players. Viney + Toumpas/Wines/O'Rourke + these two is adding some more mids capable of playing some senior footy next year. The majority of players we are losing are in betweeners that aren't quite mids and not quite keys ie: Petterd, Bate, Green. Whilst I know it is hard to be patient with Clark,Dawes, Hogan and potentially Pederson we will not have to target a key forward in the next 3-5 years. Jamar, Gawn, Spencer, Fitzpatrick give us an experienced ruck and 3 in varying stages of development. Our defensive 6 is reasonably settled although I can see us drafting another key defender in the next 2 years. That really does leave us to purely focus on our midfield from a draft, FA and trade perspective again next year. There are too many gaps in our list for Neeld and co to fix them all in 2 trade/draft periods. The aim should be a balanced list by 2014/2015 and we are certainly heading in the right direction.

I think people are looking for excuses to keep Petterd. He didn't get a look in with Neeld and the club has actively looked to change the structure of the forward line with proper talls (Dawes, Hogan, Pederson) and proper smalls (Byrnes) rather than in betweeners like Petterd. That says that Ricky will be playing country/state league footy next year.

Agree wholeheartedly. While Pedersen would be handy, I don't see him as worthy of paying well overs for him if it affects our capacity to also build up our midfield depth. As things stand, our midfield is ranked among the poorest in the competition so if we are to engage in another trade involving someone like Stefan Martin going out of the club then we need a handy midfielder with pace and running ability.

He kind of was

Gysberts is an interesting one. I still have hopes that he will be a good player for us. Needs a bloody big pre-season.

I think we're keen by all reports. [media=]

Dare I say, whilst ol Frosty had his shortcomings, effort and 2nd efforts weren't his short-suit. He just wasn't suited to the #1 fwd role, a role he invariably had to pay at times because we were so short staffed. Nor will Dawes have to play as the lone tall up the sharp end. He'll be part of a setup that I genuinely think will worry defences. What can Dawes do. He can pack crash mark, he can lead up mark and he's better than a fifty/fifty at goal. He knows how to drag a defender up the ground out of the way if need be and he's a solid unit with a reasonable tank. If not asked to do something he's not best suited to(rucking) he should partner Mitch very nicely. Both are capable of either FF or CHF and will no doubt swap and cover depending on what/who plays on them on the day. Most importantly he will cause our 3rd up fwd some largesse as we'll now have more breathing room from matchups. In the past looking to the season and pontificating as to where sufficient goals would come from or the year , I'd suggest you can mark Dawes down for 1-2 per game, hopefully 2-3. Added to a possible 60-70 /season from Clark and there's your basis of effective scoreboard damage. This ought to be interesting, watching our forward line up develop.

The following link is a fascinating read on BF's North forum. Pedersen is certainly rated by nearly every supporter, but clearly has been out of favour and seemingly not well liked by the playing group and coaches. And there's no denying that his numbers stack up well in 2011. As a third banana behind Dawes and Clark, Pedersen would be a valuable player and a difficult match-up for the opposition. And Neeld seems keen to keep developing Howe's midfield ability. I'm only 5 pages into the thread I'm about to post, but it certainly alleviates doubts about his playing ability. I've always liked what I've seen of Pedersen, but it's nice to get the view of the supporters in question. http://www.bigfooty.com/forum/threads/pedersen-not-at-north-in-2013.972515/

After reading the red fox you can see why he left and even offered to resign to let RDB take over. RDB wanted to be his own coach and not have the problems of the previous coaches looking over his shoulder like Smith did with Checker hughes, read the book and you'll know what I meant. Even smith coached elsewhere before he returned. The problem was we didn't grab his back after Carlton when he was at his peak of coaching, like at North he would have taken advantage of the short lived 10 yr rule to get us a flag. Which interesting was like modern FA RDB used the same tactic at the Dee's and then Swans to bring in experience and proven players to bolster an unsuccessful club culture till that time. Interestely you can see the parallels with Neeld know and the last two trade periods. Bring in experienced players from great and successful footy cultures to change the club.

In the limited games Martin actually played, he shown that he could hold down Ruck. Theres a reason sides are chasing Stef Martin, he has more upside than Maric had prior to his Richmond trade. As for Jamar, he is completely uselss around the ground - we are playing a man down when he is out there, its football, there is no reason to not want to kick the ball and if he had one, he shouldn't of being playing. Jamar doesn't kick anymore and simply isn't even nearly up to standard around the ground. Next year he will be even further limited when rucks aren't allowed to wrestle. Hopefully Gawn can come on, because if we get rid of Martin, we are going to need a capable ruckman.

I would rather get Broughton than pay overs for Ray.

I think a big issue is that when we languish at or near the bottom of the ladder, nobody wants to come and play for us. If we improve to around 10th, and show improvement, and don't shoot ourselves in the foot with administration screw ups, then we have the chance to attract either someone like Goddard or a young gun like Caddy. At present, we're not on their radar. We're not going to play finals next year, but we need to show we're on the way.

Lol at Freak bringing the truth. Everyone just shut up already.

This is the way. Dees " you want rid of Pedersen..fine. Heres p70 and weredoing you a favour" North" but we want...... " Dees" there is no discussion , thats the offer. Take it or leave it. We have others to talk to. Decision by 2pm Monday please " Thats all. You have to be able to walk away from any deal otherwise its a bad deal. That rule 1 of bartering. Dont stuff it up NOW Dees !!!

In who's opinion yours, MN has targeted players he wants not what supporters want and thank christ for that.

Surely they knew what the wages would look like before they came here for the draft camp. Unless they were just trying to rip the AFL off to get themselves a free overseas holiday. In that case I salute them.

Martin plays better when in the No1 Ruck. so, hypothetically, If we traded the Russian this year, we would get a good Pick to use how we chose. We would then use Martin in the 2013 year, bringing him into form & Value, as we see how both Spencer & Gawn, come on from they're knees. Next Year we could trade Martin, with hopefully a better value, as we weigh up our Ruck options, before drafting a new young ruck. I'd like Grundy this year but it's not going to happen.

Jamar can ruck. Much better than Martin. So can Spencer. Gawn will probably end up being better than all of them. Martin is a so so ruckman that is rubbish elsewhere. I hope he gets a chance to move clubs because he doesn't have a future at Melbourne.

Remember when Buckley left the Bears so he could play in a grand Final and win a flag?

Petterd has played a couple of A grade games and had a couple of moments in other games people remember. People then forget that the majority of his remaining 50 odd games have been below AFL standard. He doesn't consistently work hard enough and is not quite good enough to make a position his own.

We can help them out by trading pick 4 for picks 1, 2 & 3.

Its about getting the ball away from the bounce and contributing around the ground.Neither was achieved by Jamar this year It was painfull to watch him keep tapping the ball to his feet and how easily the opposition took it away No good hitting out if we lose possesion of the ball The thing that beat us all year was clearances

Run by Telstra. The end

If we trade Martin to Brisbane........ Martin and pick 49, for pick 24(Stringer hopefully).....

He's attending one of those fancy rehabilitation centres in the US at great cost He has to be thoroughly de-contaminated of all the filth before he can rock up to aami stadium

I believe in Tom

My take is that it will be the other way around.

Melbourne is my god and the MCG is my cathedral.

How many quality mids can you add at the one time though? yo any true effect? We have Viney and Pick4, and Barry, And Taggert all who have not played any games for the MFC. Then Tynan who has played 1 or 2, Gysberts who missed last season with injury and only got the one half chance last season. Evans also. I would count that as close to adding 7 mids under the age of 20 to our list? anyone else think this is still ALOT?

I don't like the idea of shopping players around who have just re-signed. Great way to put players offside and I believe it would be detrimental to the culture we are trying to build.

Spot on. Through developing McDonald and Jones, and great sales pitches to Clark and Dawes he has already built us a spine for the next 5 years. One can only imagine the position we'd be in today had someone like Neeld got Bailey's job. Clearly going strictly with kids was the wrong approach and Neeld has done a great deal to correct that in 12 months.

I posted in another thread some time ago now that I thought Neeld would revolutionise the Melbourne Football Club and drag it out of the past in to the present, well he hasn't let me down. We are starting to behave like a professional club and not like a bunch of rank amateurs, this is only a start but it brings me joy, we are going after what we want and getting it. Baby steps we have to get some runs on the board but in a few years to come players will want to come to our club and won't have to be enticed. Well done Mark and crew.

Exactly. He's a big midfielder (that is poor by midfielder standards) who is an average ruck and can't mark. He's Paul Johnson with a big IQ.

I am old enough to have been totally gutted by Barassi's move to the Cheaters......and I haven't really enjoyed watching the Dees as much as I did before that fateful summer. But then up until then we played in finals every year I remember, and GFs for most of them, and since then we have had so many cr@p years. But ever the optimist, I reckon Mark Neeld is the next Norm Smith, and the collection of Jacks are our next RDBs.

When's the match preview going up?