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How about we just take Jack at the pick we're forced to. The kids been itching to play AFL footy and by all reports would have walked into our team this year. There is no way the kid will put his life on hold for a year just to satisfy the greedy idiots on here. This is the worst idea yet proposed and it's had some pretty stiff competition.

I actually think you maybe UNDERESTIMATING the effect of a Viney in our midfield. Hes not the panacea to all things crook Ill acknowledge that . Hes no instant Judd etc. But he has Cohunas by all accounts. He just might be a more talented and footy smart version of Grinter ( no offence Rod..lol ) .. by this I mean... See ball get ball, destroy all in way... See wall of opposition...take wall apart. Now hes sure to come unstuck at times. He has some growing to do, but his MINDSET is already there in concrete. He WILLS himslef to succeed. Gee...now think of that as beiing infectious amongst an at times lethargic, ho hum group.. !!! Ive played on teams, footy and baskball where you have a live wire or two ( we just amicably refered to them as f%*#ing nutcases !! ) and there go get it , keep on , keep at it attitude just permeated through the team. You lifted. You couldnt in all decency let them carry the load ( not that I didnt try anyways ) but you really felt the vibe. Beamer sort of does it, but without the added layer of real vision and timing. Jonesy is close in a fashion, a littel more polished than I had beleived, but he cant do it by himslef. Get a merry band of nutcase musketeers marauding the midfiled and giving drive to an engine that seems in perpetual stall and just watch the Demons blossom. when WE are the team that goes bang nbang out of the middle goal !! watch the change in game dynamics. Now Viney wont do this all by himself. A likely lad such as Boak or similar to show the way is needed. Who else notes how often more than a handful of Demons just seem to be standing there,.Are they waiting for a bus ?? ffs. Theres no sense of urgency often and thats a team thing. You need players who take on games. They act as catalysts. I absolutely beleive that Viney will be one such catalyst. Not the team cure in himself... but a moving prototype of what is required. Get him..play him.... in 2013....simple as

Some of the comments on this thread are just fanciful. How does the club delist Davey for instance? I had thought he was contracted until the end of next season. Morton? Some people here may not rate him (I think he has upside still), but on any construction the club would try to trade him if they wished to move him on - why simply delist him? All clubs are now looking at the VFL for some effective, mature bodied depth players. Bate and Dunn, by VFL standards, more than fit that category - and that's why I understand Neeld stopped Bate being traded to the Bulldogs. They have a role IMO. Not everyone will be Buddy Franklin. The lack of evidence based thinking that often occurs here is as troubling as some of the performances of our players at times. It seems that some of you treat list management like a board game (say, a kid's version of Monopoly). I think it's a bit more scientific than playing favourites each week. I trust Neeld (and his crew) will have worked out the gaps in our list by now, will have assessed the relative merits of each of our current players, and will go into this year's draft period with a solid plan as to what and who we need. I expect the wish list would include classy mids (one established), a small forward and another tall marking forward. And, in this regard, I expect the mindset is more about how to get these much needed players onto the list rather than simply to exit 10-12 players who are currently on our list. The latter is merely a by-product of the need to get the new required players, and any trades I expect will be influenced by the deals needed to get that done.

No. Cam was a bit hasty because he saw what he believed was the writing on the wall and left of his volition when he could have remained a one club player. Now he's a three club player - Melbourne, Hawthorn and Box Hill. He's past it now - we could do with one or two experienced players but they need to have some life in the AFL left.

Wish list? You blokes'd be useless if you found a genie. If you're going to fantasize, you might as well go hog wild B:Scarlett Satan Frawley HB:Deledio Ganesh Goddard C:Black caviar Cat d9 Makybe diva HF:Messi Franklin Bolt F:Rioli Clark Cox R:Apache chief Ablett Dangerfield Int: Grimes Trengove Jones Sub: Jesus Satan will put a bit of fear into the opposition forwards and Ganesh should be able to get one of those 8 arms in for a spoil. I've gone for run, run and more run on the wings and the d9 ahold be able to push the ball forward from stoppages all day. Messi is a goal scoring freak and Bolt, Usain not Andrew, will create good defensive pressure up forward. Cox to relieve in the ruck for Apache Chief who should be enupchucking the hitouts all day. A bit controversial to start our captains on the bench but good for balance. Jesus is the sub in case we need a last quarter miracle.

He'll be with the Dees next year, don't understand why so many believe the stuff we're putting out about not taking him with too high a pick, it's only for the benefit of GWS. For the record, given our previous drafting in recent years, I'd much rather take someone definitely worth pick 7 with pick 3, than gamble pick 3 on someone who may only end up being worth a pick 27.

I wish for the day where we are looking forward to september, not november

...or we will take him in the first. I can't stand this ambivalence. We need genuine midfield ball winners and Viney is an inside and outside threat (that means he can win his own footy and pushes hard to spread and find the footy) and we are being confused by the F/S situation, If he wasn't a chance to be taken by us in the second round - if his name was Jack Schoenveld - we would all be saying we should pick up this player being called a 'brick wall with eyes.' He is exactly the type of ready to go player, with a great attitude and will to succeed that this shadow of an AFL team needs.

This scenario is different because Trent West is a spud, whereas Clark looks and plays like Jesus with tats. Another of your scenarios that sucked was suggesting we trade Trengove. Although you did have the foresight to raise the question of whether that would wreck the culture of the club, which I am willing to admit was very perceptive.

Very good game is way overstating it for Fitzy. He was ok and broke even (or slightly better) with Majak Daw after half time. However Daw played a Natanui-like game and broke the contest open in the first half with a number of eye-catching plays. Fitzy is still a way off deserving an AFL game on that effort but agree he and Couch were the best of an average lot. Cook and Williams were good from very limited opportunities. Not great conditions for them. I was most excited by Jetta despite his limited posessions. Really showed a will to get involved and his touches were class, it was just his fitness that let him down IMO. I haven't been a big fan of his over the journey but I reckon he will crack the Demons side before year end and could add a bit. I know he is more of a mid but could be used as a forward tackling machine.

i wouldn't be against a 'hardwick' cull of 10-12 we have the worst list in the comp. only drastic action will change that having said that, turning over up to 12 players and getting something better is easier said than done

We draft the kid and play him when he is ready. Round 1 2013.

Those suggesting delisting Joel MacDonald want this club to be sitting at the bottom forever. He may not have the best disposal, but he competes and works hard every minute he is on the ground. We need guys like this that keep us in the contest. My main belief with our lack of progress over the last few years is that we are rarely 'in' games. We get blown out of the water and the rest of the game both teams just go through the motions. Guys like J Mac may not be able to help you beat Collingwood or Hawthorn, but he'll keep us 'in' games against the majority of other sides. We need senior bodies desperately, and we need to not moth in to the contest. Yesterday was a repeat of round one, Brisbane just punched holes through and press and when we clogged the centre of the ground they just did circle work. The game was so boring as a Melbourne supporter to watch.

I'd delist you on that effort. Delist McKenzie LOL When he's been passed by better players I might open my mind to the possibility of delisting him, and when that happens I'm sure he'll have a disappointed smile on his face, nod his head and take it on the chin. Until then, he stays. He's harder at it than any other player on our list bar none.

Would it matter ? Wouldn't you rather judge a player on their multiple years of contributions at junior levels as opposed to one game ? As it is Viney was solid, if a bit rusty, and was named in the best. Even Geelong's skilled players are struggling to display their wares at a windswept stadium with a grandstand missing. Thankfully the next match is at Etihad. I've seen enough to know that he's exactly what we need. His pace is better than I anticipated, in fact it's good; one of the best junior watches at BF rates him his third best talent in the draft behind only Whitfield and O'Meara, and a "CLEAR top 5 pick"; he played in a premiership team for Prince Alfred's first XV111 when he was in year 9, the first player to do it in 132 years; and last year he was awarded the medal for best on ground in the TAC grand final in a losing team. But there will always be dolts on here that see the downside in anyone. It's a bit like the public polls where thousands cast a vote. There'll always be a few morons that would release Julian Knight, or Martin Bryant. It's just the way it is. EDIT: he'd also play virtually the entire year as a 19 year old. Flower and Healy started at 17. Leigh Matthews won a B&F at 19 in a premiership year. I'm not suggesting that he'll be as good as the aforementioned, but I am suggesting that he'll be ready to impact from day one.

Jordi is the re-mixed Cameron Ling simple as that. Stops his player, gets the ball. Not many players in the league are capable of playing both a negating role while still contributing on the offensive side. Neeld made a best 18 side with gaps in it when he first came down to the club. I'm willing to bet that Jordi was one of the guys on that list, or at the very least is on it now.

Exactly Matthew Lloyd started this crap about wanting to go to Geelong just because his from that way. Boak would be happy to be in Victoria, if the MFC offer him a big contract im sure he would get excited about some big coin, more than what the cats could offer. Clint Bartram is good mates with Boak.........

But thats it... after a while it's not tough, and ruthless, it starts to reek of desperation.... and is a similar reek to when people refer to tanking. If Viney is worthy of a top 3 pick, we are going to have to pay the price. If he isn't, then the club has said then we won't grab him, which is a statement to tell the other clubs we won't be bullied into spending over for him, we then get him for a 2nd round pick. The rules have changed for F/S picks, time for some people to deal with it. I am almost sick of the draft already!!

It's not just about the MFC, it's about this kid's life and career. Am not a big fan of what you said RR, but also I am certain that there must be something that would prevent you delaying him by a year and then being able to take him the following year as a F/S. (Perhaps you can only nominate once for F/S drafting) Lets face it there is no way Viney is going to be hidden away anywhere, also not a fan of comments that have been thrown around for Viney to underplay for the remainder of the year (effectively tank) to drop his value. I say let the kid play out the year, let him play his guts out to prove that he is worth whatever pick he gets picked up at. If thats a second rounder then great, if it's a first rounder and we take him at pick 3, then he is worthy of that pick in the eyes of our club and other clubs out there. (I don't buy into all the gamesmanship crap!)

I don't know if it is even possible for him to not nominate for this draft and delay it a year... It's interesting but I just think Viney is what this list needs and I want him in there ASAP.

Sorry I really cant buy this. It sounds all marvellous onpaper and thats the intrinsic problem about much thinking that constantly suggest this or that as some idea of maybe oneday having a really good team...on paper. Its the munyana theory.. That is One day, not today, but a day real soon , all the planets will align and we will have this player and that one and we will finally have our perfect team...on paper. It perpetuates the myth of fields being greener on the other side of the day etc. It for miine supposes its some sort of game of 'collecting' players, not building a team You win games by bringing together talented and able players who have ability and expereince and the nouse to play a game as directed by the coach but intepreted along with natural inclinations...translation...footy smarts. So many keep living in some for of 'tomorrowism" That it will always be better some day off in the future because we will have this pick and that one, and we will have SO much potential that surely we must succeed. People, its about NOW. We are here now, the coach and players are here now. They arent doing too crash hot but the improvement and selecting is happening now. We need to take Viney ( or someone ) at seasons end and meld them into a growing Melbourne team, we need to add into that mix another distinct talent via a high draft pick ( but acknowledge they proabbaly wont do much for another year) we nnned to go find a couple lof ready mades to plug holes in the team for the coming year(s). We cant keep thinking in terms of a year or two, that these players will come on in a year or two etc . If a perpetual tomorrow is the goal line then I fear we wil never reach it. Viney , should he be picked and I hope he is , needs to be in a Melbourne jumper NEXT year. he needs some games at AFL level in him next year. This allows us to grow NOW...not the year after or the year after that. Theres still thsi idea of having your cake and eating it too. . We as a club just need to be satisfied we got the picks we did and make the best of those. But do it in a fashion which results in distinct and noticable improvements right away Viney may well play a game or two in the magoos next year but his progress and development will only be stunted and delayed by playing him there all year.

Oh, SMFl, I am two chapters past the point... There is an argument beginning to emerge from a few on here that if we take Viney at 3, after explicitly saying we wouldn't, we would be seen as weak tea and therefore should not pick him up at 3 as a blanket rule. It's BS, if Viney is worth near pick 3 and we couldn't work a deal or a bluff - we should take him. From what I have heard - he is clearly near 3...

THE WRITING ON THE WALL by Grapeviney At some point between Melbourne's unexpected victory over the Bombers on a wintry Saturday night last month, and quarter time against expansion team GWS a few weeks later, Demons supporters could have been forgiven for thinking that their team might purge their miserable 2012 season opening loss to the Lions with a victory in the return match in Brisbane on Sunday. Sure, the Demons' 2-10 win-loss ratio heading in to the Brisbane game was nothing to write home about, but there were increasing signs that Mark Neeld's charges were starting to adapt to the new coach's game-plan and vision. Some of that optimism had dissipated in the wake of Melbourne's 78-point thumping of the Giants, when the club learned of the season-ending foot injury to gun recruit Mitch Clark, who before yesterday's game had bagged an admirable 25 per cent of the Demons' goals in season 2012. But with the movement of Colin Garland and Jared Rivers to the forward line paying dividends, there seemed to be cause for hope even with Clark sidelined. Hope turned to dismay, however, before the Lions game, with news that Mark Jamar and Nathan Jones were late withdrawals, and any chance that the Demons had of causing an upset disappeared in the opening minutes of the match, when improving defender Tom McDonald copped a knee to the abdomen and had to be hospitalised with a suspected punctured lung. In isolation, Melbourne might have been able to handle these setbacks, but taken together, the side was seriously undermined whichever way Neeld chose to position his troops. To his credit, the coach didn't panic when McDonald went down, and while it left an undersized Watts matched up against the Lions' man-mountain in Brown for a short time, Neeld's faith in the starting line-up seemed to pay dividends when the Demons drew within a point of the home side late in the first quarter. But the writing was on the wall, even in that first term. While Melbourne could only manage to score goals best described as opportunistic, Brisbane had little trouble finding avenues forward, and two late goals to Brown saw the home side slip away to a handy lead that would only increase as the day wore on. From there, it was only a matter of filling in the details. Melbourne contested the hard ball well, and there was little to separate the two sides in the clearances, inside-50's, and contested possessions, but the Demons failed to register a major in the second term and could only manage a solitary goal in the third as Brisbane moved the ball with ease from half back to set up scoring chances in their forward 50. In contrast, the Demons struggled – as they have for much of the year - to run and spread and move the ball with speed, and they regularly broke down at half forward. Stef Martin made a triumphant return to senior football, displaying the form which saw him fill in so successfully for an injured Jamar last year, and Joel Macdonald answered his many critics by complementing his usual hardness at the ball with an 88-per cent disposal efficiency. Jeremy Howe continued to show why he is one of the more promising names on the club's list, and Jordie McKenzie played the rugged, no-nonsense type of game MFC supporters have come to expect from him. With Melbourne facing the Tigers – a team with much to play for and an impressive midfield – this week, it's going to take an effort of Herculean proportions if the Demons are to return to the winner's circle Melbourne 3.6.24 3.8.26 4.11.35 8.13.61 Brisbane Lions 6.1.37 9.60 13.11.89 18.14.122 Goals Melbourne Blease 2 Bail Bate Garland Howe McKenzie Sylvia Brisbane Lions Brown 4 Hanley McGrath 3 Green 2 Bewick Black Merrett Polec Redden Zorko Best Melbourne Howe Macdonald Sylvia Blease Martin Watts Brisbane Lions Rich Brown Black Rockliff Harwood Hanley Injuries Melbourne Tom McDonald (lung) Brisbane Lions McGrath (hamstring) Changes Melbourne Mark Jamar and Nathan Jones replaced in the selected side by Jake Spencer and Sam Blease Brisbane Lions Nil Reports Melbourne Nil Brisbane Lions Nil Umpires Kamolins Jennings Mollison Crowd 22,114, at Gabba

It's ridiculously early for this kind of stuff but here we go anyway . . . I'd be keen for a scenario like the following to unfold: Toumous (pick 3) Boak (trade pick 4) Prestia (trade pick 13) Viney (second round F/S) I'm very confident that the MFC mind games will work. Gold Coast and GWS won't nominate Jack in the first round and we'll grab him in the second round. Toumpas fits the bill. He's fast, dynamic and finds the footy. He's got a good motor and uses it pretty well. I think Boak is worth pick 4 and I think we'll need to use it to trump other teams. Gaff, Morabito, Hartlett, Morton and Leuenberger are the last four pick 4's (outside of Hoskin-Elliott last year who has only played 3 games). Boak was taken the pick after Leuenberger in 2006. He gives us instant experience, leadership and hard running. Prestia seems to be the forgotten man. He's been averaging about 20 touches until he nipped his hamstring this year. He's small but uses it well and is a committed tackler. He'd be entering his third year of footy. I love the look of Viney. I'm a little concerned by his size but the one attribute that most overlook on here is how well he reads the ball around the stoppages and once he gets it he rarely fumbles. The kid is a competitive beast. Pick 30 will be a steal. 2013 midfield would include Boak, Jones, Gysberts, Grimes, Howe, Trengove, Viney, McKenzie, Prestia, Toumpas, Blease, Sylvia, Taggert. That's starting to look like a midfield with a bit of depth and potential. Add Strauss, Tapscott and Tynan and Morton (I haven't given up) giving us further run and we might just be able to turn this around more quickly than many here expect.

I have this aversion to spending #4 on a ruckman when we are crying out for midfield strength and speed.

Those capable of being developed into a premiership player, or are core: Clark, Jones, Trengove, Howe, Watts, Frawley, Rivers, Grimes, Jamar, Garland, Jurrah, Tom McDonald, *Sylvia, *Moloney Players with question marks, are depth, or have skill issues: Bartram, McKenzie, Bail, Nicholson, Martin, Jetta, Joel Mac, Magner Too early to call: Tapscott, Blease, Gysberts, Strauss Sorry, but I just don't see it: Dunn, Bate, Bennell, Morton, Spencer Time has passed them by: Green, Davey Others such as Taggert, Tynan, Cook, Davis, Gawn, etc. are development players and I'll leave the Rookies. * some will have these two in the ? category and I have no problem with that. I have 7 players in the "time has passed by", or "sorry" categories, but those in the "?/depth" category wouldn't feel safe - depending on contract status. Also, I don't believe Davey will be going anywhere, even though I've placed him where I have. I think he'll get his final year in 2013. And Magner will obviously also get another year. If every player was out of contract I reckon there'd only be a about a dozen players confident of their short-term future. I have to say that I'm disappointed to list Morton where I have, as I still see talent and upside. But I too have given up hope. He just doesn't have the capacity to win the type of contested footy that players are exposed to in finals. Every player on the list should be measured by their potential to influence finals. If you can't perform in finals you're about as useful as a cold pie. By my assessment we don't have one A grade player. Clark was having an A grade year, but I don't give an A grade rating on one year, let alone half a season. We have potential A graders - Clark, Trengove, Watts, Frawley, Howe and we need to really get some wins in the draft/trade table at year's end. Essendon have shown that things can change quite quickly and I'm relatively bullish about our future. But I always am.

Any chance Neeld can give a few games to Jordie where he tells him to be an offensive weapon and go and hunt the ball? He had 9 clearances on the weekend whilst playing a tagging role and currently sits behing Jones and Beamer for clearances on the season. I would like to see what he could do if he was allowed to play as solely a clearance player hunting the footy. There is no reason why either of our Captain Jacks can't be given Jordies role, it may actually take Trenners to the ball a bit more, and he is supposed to have a big tank to stay with an elite midfielder. Am I talking rubbish, or is it worth a try? Our midfield can't get much worse, we may as well try some new approaches.

Probably be more accurate as well.

surely its.....4 2 6 !!!

You son of a [censored]!!! I was just about to put that down..... ahhh kudos for a great mind though

Put yourself in Jacks boots for a minute RR, do you remember being 18. A year is an eternity for a kid that age. Won't happen and shouldn't happen

Guys, dont know if anyone knows if this is possible but an option for the club could be to ask Viney to sit out 2013, have a run in the VFL, then nominate for next years draft. This draft is possibly the most important in the clubs future. Our list is very average. We will play finals in the next few years but this isnt premiership material. We need guns! Viney sits out, give him a sweetner for his troubles, we then take pick 3 and 4 , trade for pick 12, and enter 2013 loaded up. then F/S Viney next year. Is this a possibility? If so, MFC can play hard ball instead of getting screwed again. Several posters appeal for us to be happy to take viney at 3 as 'hes worth it'. He could be but why settle for that. The club should fight to MAXIMISE its position not just be content cause hes worth it anyway. Fight to rape and pilage this top 5, not just take our fair share. The 'nice guys finish last' saying isnt truer than in the world of AFL football.

Think Jobe Watson. He could always find the football, he was poised and strong, but in his early days his kicking was considered a real liability... Familiar? Off field as well as on, Grimes apparently exudes focus. This isn't "x factor", it's "c factor" - class. It's what Scully was supposed to have, and may still, though it's getting well and truly overshadowed by personality issues in his case. Grimes is the real deal.

Agree on comments about Jordie's kicking. Love his endeavour, but his kicking is barely VFL standard. Bartram as well. Meanwhile, McDonald's lucky he's turned into a really promising young defender, because his kicking is atrocious.

He's actually not a bad kick when he has time to get balanced. He's usually in the thick of a contest though & his disposals are rarely afforded time

Certainly it would be worth a try, and as you say JT may get nearer the ball and learn from whomever he is tagging. And Jordie's disposal by hand is pretty good, and by foot not as bad as many here suggest.

How many games would Brad Johnston had employed for the Dogs were you a selector??Stupid thread. Bobby...are you a headline writer for a cheap tabloid?

What about reversing the colors? Red jumper with blue V? Only a suggestion.

Wow, from the thread title I thought he wrote off another car.. Ridiculous thread. Honestly think we have bigger fish to fry than somebody's jovial disposition.

Fence, whilst I applaud you bringing your crusade to a new forum, it still does not change the fact that you are tilting at windmills still....Juice was a pea hearted hack that had far to long a run on our list than he really deserved. He never got an extended run because he was lacking one vital ingredient in the make up of a successful footballer...heart. Newton at Geelong still would have been a pea heart, no matter what the delivery forward was like.....he just would have had a few more chance to shirk it than he did with us is all.

Can we have the message 'Father/Sons are organised prior to Trade Week' emblazoned on the Demonland banner.

Your only joking right? Kosi is the biggest spud this side of Bate.

Yes I thought I would look at yesterdays game from a directly overhead position!

Is that you out there 'old dee' ?

We lose pick 12 and a player ? For West ? Hooley Dooley..... Is it a full moon ?

He has the ability to win possessions & consistently rack them up wherever he has played which is not a bad place to start when becoming a good footballer. It's more about attitude, application & leadership with Grimes. Brett Kirk didn't have any elite traits either, look at the footballer he became.

If there are some good deals to be done then i say Get rid of the top picks so there is no viney dilemma

Reading this thread just blows my mind. You blokes are unbelievable. You are all just a bunch of Dorothys - just click your heels three times and a decent team will pop up from nowhere. If we delist all the players mentioned in this thread we will stay down the bottom for another ten years - you can't just draft a new team from nowhere - it evolves over time. With a new coach we need time to let the team develop. With this in mind Bate, Morton, Pettard, Moloney and Bartram at the very least must stay - all mature bodies, all played 50 - 150 games. I would argue that Green and Davey should too - I think we all agree that we moved Juinior on to soon and these blokes are in the same catergory. Patience Grasshopper Patience

Jordie's effort can't be questioned and he is very hard at it but his kicking and pace are so far below AFL standard it's ridiculous. He missed targets today by 15m. You can only carry so many one-paced, poor kicks on a list. We seem to have more than our fair share in Grimes, Trengove, Magner, McKenzie, Moloney, Bate, Bail. They're everywhere!

Did nothing today!