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Have you seen us play this year? Much like every other season since 2007, we're hardly in a position to pick and choose which games we'll win. There was a good piece on tanking in the NBA on ESPN today: http://espn.go.com/b...-tell-the-truth Footy fans like to throw around the work 'tanker' as an insult, but the reality is, that in any sensible sporting league with a draft at the end of each season, there will be a certain number of teams who don't make it to the finals. What is the best thing for these teams to do when their seasons are shot to pieces? Play all the old guys and try to eke out an extra win or two? Or get as many games into the younger players, have injured players operated on, try players in different positions, and better your draft position and future prospects? I know as a supporter which I prefer. Even before the draft era, bottom teams would be more likely to get inured players operated on rather than risk serious injury as would happen through playing in finals. It's just sensible list management. If you're talking about tanking as losing on purpose, well there's just never going to be enough evidence to mount a good enough case that teams do this. Every player goes out there to win - it's their careers on the line. Bailey's zany moves against Richmond in 2009 were no worse than the side-splittingly comical matchups he STARTED the 186 game with. Every club would have participated in some form of tanking/list management, however slight on the spectrum. It has helped or been essential in some clubs winning premierships - West Coast of 2006, Hawthorn of 2008, Collingwood of 2010 come to mind immediately. That example from the ESPN article I posted has another good example. One key thing Melbourne failed to do in all of this that the other clubs did well (in addition to failing to draft superstars), was surrounding these young draft picks with top class experienced players. We won't have to lose games deliberately to get our hands on good picks this year. I just want to see us start to play some good football, and these kids begin to realise their potential.

Maybe Hoover can sponsor us !!

That play where Clark stood up, broke through two would-be tacklers and handballed off the gimme goal to Sellar warmed my heart. A big man doing big man stuff in the forward line is something we haven't seen since Schwarz and Neitz.

I strongly supported it in 2009, but it was a massive emotional drain that I still haven't recovered from. I couldn't support it again I don't think. Plus I don't think there's any need. Just like in 2008, I think we're about bad enough to lose enough games on merit anyway.

My fondest memory of Travis was when Matty Whelan polaxed James Hird and Trapper swooped on a loose ball then banged it from the Boundry 55m out Ponsford end. The roar from the crowd was spine tingling.

How bad would we be right now if we didn't get him? It actually terrifies me thinking about it! FWIW I don't want to see him moved to the ruck, we need a big forward damn it and it appears we may have found it!

Weird. Can't see how the Demon Shop is doing anything other than right by the customers in this case.

Saw these the other day...

1. I don't actually think we're paying Mitch Clark all that exorbitant an amount of money 2. If he turns into the power forward we need - he's worth every dollar (and it's looking more and more like he will fulfil that role) 3. If he doesn't: 3a. There is speculation Jamar is off, despite the fact he's been shizen so far, we probably should keep him at the right price. 3b. Given 3a. Clark can move to the Ruck, acknowledging a futile experiment - He's a good footballer no matter what so it'd be money well spent/money not given to Jamar can be directed elsewhere 4. He's a hard-nut and about the only guy who wears the jumper with pride - amazing after 3 games. Oozes passion. A true part of the club already. imo a really smart pick-up and one of the only positives to take from this awful awful start ~ Augers well for list management/recruiting transformation that is underway

Remember only two weeks ago Leigh Matthews stated Ben Hudson would be a more valuable pick up than Mitch Clark? Who got dropped last week from the Lions Leigh? Statement for the sake of a statement.

Could we please change the terminology to a more acceptable sub-text? 'List Management'

I would prefer absynthe and hookers thanks Ben, it is the only way i will make it through this year. Hang tight Mark Neeld.

I don't think I agree with that. You're less likely to get a player of real influence with late picks - it's the early picks that have the biggest impact on the club's on field fortune. Our misuse of these through the 00's is a huge part of why we suck now.

http://www.smh.com.a...0417-1x5le.html Gotcha

I think they wanted the trifecta, they already had Brock and Chris and Bazza was the final link in the chain. They really have pillaged us haven't they?

I absolutely loved watching Trapper play footy. I am seriously considering making the trek to watch him run around on Saturday. Might enjoy watching footy for the first time in a while!

A million cynical monkeys and a million typewriters later ... You're going to spend Tom's $6M dining out on the fact that you called it early - I reckon you've only got about $31 left.

I am dead against playing in a way that will not win us finals in the future. If learning to play the Mark Neeld way causes us to not win a game all year, then I'll support it as long as the experience the players gain will be relevant in the future. Attempting to lose games (and thus not giving our players optimal practice in whatever game style the coach believes will win us a Premiership) would be a terrible mistake, and is likely to cause more harm than good.

The 1st sentence of the post was simply to point out that stevethemanjordan was talking crap in between insulting people. The 2nd part was my conjecture - that BP wouldn't have left if he was satisfied with his job, particularly when it's incomplete (see Scully picks) - there's a number of reasons with he may have been unsatisfied though. You'll note that the paragraph starts with "I don't think". Can I make it any clearer to you that I'm not presenting it as fact? When I'm presenting a fact I'll say some like "I know for a fact that BP didn't leave because Mark Neeld forced him out" but I didn't say that did I?

And your point is ...??? Good interview with Jones, glad he's in the leadership group, would have been happy with him as captain.

FWIW... I have recently attempted to get the company I work for to step up and get behind the MFC. Sent a nice email to our CEO, told them about the club, mentioned the statement it would make to get behind us after the previous sponsor saga ... etc etc etc. Unfortunately that didn't work out as the business has some significant commitments elsewhere. . Anyway, during this time I had a chat with 'a relevant person' at the MFC to let them know what I was trying to do. During the conversation I was told there should be some good news "in a few days". That was last Thursday morning and obviously Webjet was announced that night. Would it be drawing a long bow to assume that as they already knew Webjet would be announced that evening, the "in a few days" was about something else?

Should have put this in the positivity thread

I have never played elite level but playing at equivalent level competiion and from observation lack of fitness does impact dramatically on performance. I play squash and when not fit it is noticeable how you dont get to the ball, are off balance, and generally game skills deteriorate markedly. When competitor is even a 5% reduction in fitness can affect score dramatically. I hadnt really considered it a major weakness at MFC but it may be a bigger factor than realised. Maybe the effort asked by Neeld and Misson on the training track is taking some time to take effect. It does seem that the intensity and fitness of other clubs has increased and if we were marginally behind it may impact a lot. AS I have aged I know that it takes longer to recover and it is easier to lose the level of fitness Fitness is difficult to achieve and retain over a gruelling period (season) I imagine thats the purpose of the beep tests etc all players go through is to establish monitor and improve those levels Recovery levels also are affected by fitness and ability to do the second and third effort repetition etc are all affected by fitness levels It again is a reason I have been promoting the Squad versus a fixed or best 22 as all players will have different cycles of effort and recovery and levels of fitness. Matching the player capacity with what is required is why selection should not be automatic Wow its a very interesting aspect which I again have assumed the club and its coaches are professionally managing and improving and I guess why I am still positive.

So far i'm very happy that we picked up Mitch. He's kicked 9 goals in 3 games (Should be more) in a weak side and I think he will do wonders for our club in the years to come and he is one of the few good things about the MFC for 2012 so far.

Agree wholeheartedly pitchfork. It seems no matter what MFC does or who plays for them regardless of where they've come from they attract criticim at some point. Very rarely are players afforded their due when warranted. Mitch Clark has been in our best 5 players thus far (not saying much I know) but the way he has conducted himself has been exemplary. To have kicked 9 goals across 3 games when the team has had 15 inside 50s is better than anyone could expect.

The whole article is a crock. Headline : TANKING ISSUE LOOMS .... Column 4 : "It would be ridiculous to suggest that the Dogs or Dees are tanking .." Sensationalism lives at the H-S Get a grip

Here, let me put my arm around you.

nice article of 'convenience' raising the tanking issue, then cowardly suggesting it can't be called tanking at round 3 right at the end of the article. make the big headline then retract the insinuation right at the end. pathetic article. Mark Stevens is apporaching the Jon Ralph school of utter gutter journalism, saying anything just to sell some papers whether its true or not. Then in this case not even standing by your thoughts.

Whenever our players are interviewed these days pressing the mute button is a must. It's always the same old lines, the same old excuses and the same old cliches. They come across like uninterested programmed robots.

I couldn't agree less. The top picks is where the talent is - clubs have to get these right. Recruiters are the instruments clubs use to draft, it is the main responsibility to get these picks right. I don't care about the abstract art of talent spotting in far-flung leagues with lower picks - I care about picking stars with top 10 picks that will help drive our flag tilt.

Thanks for your constructive input.

I don't agree with an overhaul of half the list. That's ~20 or so players. We will need to address /trade at the end of the year, but no where near the numbers spruiked recently. Those that have little appetite for physical contests or those that struggle to make an influence and their decision making will be under threat. Half a dozen players will be under the microscope. I see attitude, coming to terms with strategy, leadership and of course execution as aspects that can be addressed in the short-medium term by those in charge. However, the midfield or engine room is too important to be ignored. The club is in dire need of quality in the guts if it has any desire to be thereabouts for a shot at a flag in the future. There is too much evidence from other AFL clubs With good engine rooms that support this.

I think that is his point - it's thoughts, not facts.

We're on the right track then, first part of the journey completed with honours.

Actually, I wasn't referring to you. Believe it or not I don't have a problem with you.

If I can add my two cents - I guess its how information on this site is presented. I have been known to stick my head in the sand but I don't disrespect opinions contrary to my viewpoint. I have real problems with opinion being presented as fact.

Wow Dr Who you come across as a real [censored]. People like you ruin this forum

Come on The recruiter is part of a team that includes the senior coach at its head. Of course they are going to discuss the potential cattle dependent on the coach's vision for the future, or would you think that the recruiter should present the senior coach with a group of his favourites and then let the coach work it out? That would be the tail wagging the dog.

Easy to make that albeit errant conclusion by watching a slo-mo replay, but watched at normal speed, there is absolutely no way he could have made such a conscious decision and I would say, no way he did... take off the red and blue goggles.

It's sad that having Green out for 4 weeks doesn't at all hurt the senior side. Haven't said that since before 2000! What we really need is a fit and firing Sylvia, Moloney and Jurrah back in the team asap

That would imply that there was a direction beforehand; if there was I certainly can't see it.

??? The head rots from the fish ????!!!! ;-()

You're making the incorrect assumption that I have an opinion on this matter one way or the other. All I'm saying is I think it's poor form (at best) to spread dirt when you're without any facts other than "reading between the lines", which for me is just a synonym for "guessing".

bing I think you are looking for excuses. We had injuries in 2010 and 2011 That I remember we seldom if ever had all our best players on the field. If you were to take a survey of all comentators at present the popular opinion would be that we have a poor list. We finished 12th in 2010, same in 2011 and god knows were this year 16 - 18 looks possible. For the last three years we have been in the bottom third of the ladder. Similar cattle similar results for mine. Time to admit it mate we have a poor playing group

It doesn't beg the question, it raises the question. Sheesh.

Gee there are a lot of ppl here who are quick to slag off posters coming up with ideas. Just cos you don't agree with the idea doesn't mean you need to resort to ridicule. If you look at form in the VFL last year Magner got recruited but Brock performed very well, and as Striker said he is on a list with one of the best damned midfields in the comp. Barely any of our midfielders would be playing ahead of who Carlton have in there. My recollection of the last 6 months or so that Brock played with us was that he was constantly struggling to get his body right for the rigours of playing AFL, (and we weren't at AAMI so still had the junction oval as our facilities) and his form was reflected in this too. Strongest memory of his time with us was the amount he spent @ debt demolition to help out the club. It's not the worst idea that I have heard Striker, but I suspect we have recruited.... or have similar players to Brock currently playing on our list. ie. Magner, Couch, Jones, Moloney.

Can't believe all the posters who have turned on Jordie Mckenzie. Hailed last season as a 'hero', 'tackling machine' etc,etc.

Mediocre? Clark has been worth every one of those considerable number of pennies so far. I feel sick just thinking about what we'd look like without him at the moment.

I felt embarrassed today and felt the club should apologise to Mitch for luring him in to our pathetic club; he must wonder why the other players don't seem to give a damn.

Just lost to Richmond by 10 goals. We are playing badly. There's being positive, and then there's being a delusional halfwit.