POSTGAME: Rd 10 vs West Coast

[leave it to deever 16,439]

4 hours ago, D Rev said:

I don't think there is any 1 real flag chance in the league.  Sydney still look good, but it'll be interesting to see how they go at the MCG.  Port were very lucky against Hawthorn. Geelong, Carlton and GWS have fallen away.  I dont think the Blues or Cats have the legs to get through the finals.

It's a very even league, we have to accept that we aren't going to be great every week - particularly with travel.  Fitness and depth will get us over the line as finals footy will be more like Rugby Union.

Getting to the line will be the issue.  When our top tier doesnt fire, it really exposes the next level down. Oliver didnt have a pre-season, so should have more in him.  The form of Viney and Trac is not up to previous years, perhaps Trac should stay in the forward line more?  That was probably Mays worst game at Melbourne, I dare say he will bounce back.  Lever was missed.

I thought Kozzie, Nibbler and Salem were all very good. Windsor is going to be a 200 gamer.

Not stinking over the last couple of years has meant we haven't been able to draft players of the ilk of Harley Reid, which is part of the even competition the AFL wants.

 

I agree mostly .

And despite others, I too thought Salo was good. Especially considering his considerable absence.

Anb and Kozzie too although Kozzys disposal at times was substantially errant. 

But the fact we are mentioning only 3 players is very alarming 

What has happened to our midfield? Tracca look like he was wearing cement shoes trying to chase Reid. But his midfield companions were all down in form and have been for a while.

Viney is a shadow of his yesteryear form. He must be struggling with some sort of injury.

And Sparrow never really seems to step up. Plays the odd good game but rarely back to back.

And our fwd line is to be quite frank a complete shambles. Despite Fritta and Kozzie who both give at most around a combination of about four goals, we can't kick winning scores.

We have kicked 100 points plus once this year. Petty really shouldn't be playing after only giving only one good account 

But it comes down to a case of the cupboard being empty. I read the Casey reports and we don't really seem to have much depth. Besides the fact that we are already playing a fair amount of young players already.

And I'm not just referring to our fwd line depth. We don't seem to be overflowing with mids and wingmen. 

This is the biggest concern for me. A lack of a bog bodied tall fwd or two like Hogan or Tmac of old who good boot four a game each. 

And someone to come in when Langers can't or Sparrow gets dropped.  There is no real pressure on players in terms of being relegated to the twos like a few years ago.

It used to be Sparrow was competing for his spot and players like Milkshake were also competing for a game.

All that aside you are correct in this being an incredibly close season.

This round was proof of that with all it's upsets. Being slightly off will see top teams defeated by lesser ones. So the top four is still wide open.

We have survived without a potent fwd line by having a power house of a backline. But it's just not enough when our midfield falls in a heap. Our slow starts are baffling and the coaches need to do something significant about our game prep.

All in all, unless we can fix our fwd line we are going to struggle. I'm sure our midfield will sort itself out soon . But it better hurry. Salo or Rivers in the middle will help. Or perhaps even giving Bowey a few rotations.

But I don't know about or scoring problem. Jvr has gone backwards in form to last year. Chandler has disappeared again like last year and should be dropped. But who do we replace him with?

So for me I think there are some pretty big issues that will exclude us from the top four despite the very even comp.

We are using players like Bbb who is really struggling because there is nobody else. And Bbbs been struggling for two years now. I know someone will say there have been no key forwards to recruit and maybe this is true so I guess it's nobody's fault.

As for our midfielders they really need a rocket up them. To see a young Reid show up our touted great guns was embarrassing.

We look woefully lacking in confidence and skills. There were too many unforced errors and poor decisions made often. In short some horrible panic footy. As much as I love Fritta it was not a good look to see him laughing at times. It wasn't a good look .

The players look like they have lost some passion and if they didn't fight back in the Carlton game I would be extremely worried.

But yesterday we got smashed by the third bottom team when a third top spot was on the line. We didn't want it enough. Pure and simple. No excuses. 

I know we will be playing finals but I'm sure we won't be top four. Yesterday was a must win. And we got thumped.

We have done some great recruiting but we have also lost some good players. And we have recruited some bad ones too. Also losing Gus and Smith has been a big blow.

I really think the window of flags has started to swing shut now and I can't see how we are going to stop it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

[jumbo returns 6,595]

41 minutes ago, Garbo said:

The problem is if our main liners don’t have a good game it rare to see the next players down step up, although I don’t know that is unique to us. But when’s the last time Sparrow ANB, rivers, Salem and the like stepped up when players like Trac and Oliver or May are Struggling. They play there role and might have a good game when when everyone else is but I dont recall when they have had a statement game when the chips were down

ANB was BOG a couple of rounds ago and is never our worst

I agree about Rivers and Sparrow - pop them in the middle and see what happens? Can Trac and Oliver become very dangerous forwards? Both have very high footy IQ and can run good lines

Salem will take a few weeks to find his poise again, as he looks completely underdone

Don't start me on Petty

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,495]

52 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Do you really think the coaches said that to him? 

Or do you think it perhaps is more likely they said something like "you get your chance here, go and seize this spot in the side"?

And that he didn't, not because he doesn't care or wasn't motivated, but because he just wasn't capable?

You're right they wouldn't have said you're only in for this week. 

But on what planet would BBB be playing next week against St Kilda with JVR due back and Goodwin's willingness in keeping Petty as a forward.

[leave it to deever 16,439]

20 minutes ago, jumbo returns said:

ANB was BOG a couple of rounds ago and is never our worst

I agree about Rivers and Sparrow - pop them in the middle and see what happens? Can Trac and Oliver become very dangerous forwards? Both have very high footy IQ and can run good lines

Salem will take a few weeks to find his poise again, as he looks completely underdone

Don't start me on Petty

Good post.

But regarding Petty, I really don't know what we are going to do.

If he has really only played one good game since returning. If he continues playing like yesterday for a couple more then we will realistically have to drop him.

We simply can't be carrying him. Perhaps send him down back and Tmac up fwd again.

I'm not sure what we will do about him. He was good in his ruck cameos. 

[PLASTICJOHN 0]

Has Goody lost the players.

It would seem that way.

Time to go Goody.

[Doug Reemer 1,023]

17 hours ago, Abyssal said:

Very selective of you.

Did you read the rest for context ?

When you do, I’ll read your counter.

I don’t need to. I listen to George every week on the pod and that’s enough.

[deegirl 1,357]

3 hours ago, DemonWA said:

Billings isn't as bad as Demonland would have you think. Sure his set shot kicking has been a real issue, but he's not the worst imo

If Billings isn't worst I'm dying to know who you think is 🤣

One of our many issues is that our bottom five players (which Billings would have to be in) still have a huge gap between their best & worst.  The spuds are spudding it up with regularity and the guns are down on form.  

[DemonicFinalFantasy 210]

Psychologically we werent at the game. That's the only "why?" I can come up with.

Everyone knows we are capable of great things, but it doesn't happen without everyone's effort.

We are brittle when things go awry (fumbles on last line of defence, injuries to key players).

Few take accountability for their disposals. positioning or loose opponent (blasting the ball into anywhere, handballs into the air, opposition with acres of space), and

The forwards need strong experienced leadership on the ground, like we have in defence.

The beautiful connection between Clary and Tracc that we used to admire is non-existent. Viney hasn't been the same since the incident with his shoulder a few weeks back.

These are issues I see, and not specific to the WCE game, but it was a difficult train ride home after the game.

[ElDiablo14 3,602]

17 minutes ago, deegirl said:

If Billings isn't worst I'm dying to know who you think is 🤣

One of our many issues is that our bottom five players (which Billings would have to be in) still have a huge gap between their best & worst.  The spuds are spudding it up with regularity and the guns are down on form.  

You just have to consider the easy shot at goal he had, after he was gifted a [censored].

Nowhere near the goal, but he is an elite kick hey!

[beelzebub 22,531]

3 hours ago, SFebes said:

Was at the game, it was truly pathetic and embarrassing. One of the more frustrating efforts I've seen. I still can't believe I am saying we need a key forward 3 yrs in a row. Its either salary cap issues or poor list management/coaches belief. No words really but we are a meat and potatoes team with very limited skill across the board and a constant makeshift forward line that is one so frustrating to watch every single week.

Why didn't Petty go back when Lever was out? Brown is useless, once he doesn't mark it we are one down, McAdam was poor and didn't chase. Billings, Viney, Oliver, Sparrow.....

 

Why ?? 🤔

Why didn't he ?

We both know why ?  😉

Edited May 20 by beelzebub

[The Swimming Dee 1,863]

41 minutes ago, PLASTICJOHN said:

Has Goody lost the players.

It would seem that way.

Time to go Goody.

That’s seriously your first post ever on Demonland? 
What a ridiculous take

[titan_uranus 22,912]

1 hour ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

You're right they wouldn't have said you're only in for this week. 

But on what planet would BBB be playing next week against St Kilda with JVR due back and Goodwin's willingness in keeping Petty as a forward.

If he’d played well enough to demand that he hold his spot then we’d have had to work out how to keep him in. Doesn’t matter how unlikely you think that would have been, that’s what Brown’s mindset surely would have been going in. 

[gregdemon 542]

19 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Why ?? 🤔

Why didn't he ?

We both know why ?  😉

SAD THING IS I knew it was over 10 MINUTES IN you could see we were flat. Said to mrs its over she said "do not be so silly"

[jumbo returns 6,595]

1 hour ago, PLASTICJOHN said:

Has Goody lost the players.

It would seem that way.

Time to go Goody.

Settle down PJ

[jnrmac 19,394]

4 minutes ago, gregdemon said:

SAD THING IS I knew it was over 10 MINUTES IN you could see we were flat. Said to mrs its over she said "do not be so silly"

Its remarkable how often you can say that with this team. 

[layzie 30,030]

1 hour ago, PLASTICJOHN said:

Has Goody lost the players.

It would seem that way.

Time to go Goody.

Troll. 

[Demonland 66,672]

 

[Bring-Back-Powell 13,495]

10 hours ago, At the break of Gawn said:

After watching First Crack last night, I think it’s time we drop our new game plan and go back to what works for us. Yes, we went out in straight sets last year, but that method gave us plenty of opportunities to win both games. It was mainly just accuracy that let us down. This is a classic case of throwing the baby out with the bath water by the coaching group. We only needed a few tweaks, instead they’ve overhauled the game plan and we’ve lost our identity.

Fair point.

Last year's game plan got us 8 more scoring shots against Carlton in a semi final which by any measure should be a 3-4 goal win when you outscore your oppo by that many. (we also outscored the premiers by 3 shots in week 1)

The game plan did not factor in Max Gawn missing a goal from the point post or Fritta and Kozzie missing goals they usually get in their sleep deep into the last quarter.

The game plan could only go so far if the players failed to compose themselves in key moments.

Hopefully this year's game plan comes together soon, but it's clear the players are having a bit of trouble with it as highlighted by getting out marked by 51 and minus 21 in inside 50's, in addition to losing stats during the year that we usually excel in.

[No. 31 654]

So now I finally get to see what MFCSS is all about. Drop this talk of closing windows and asterix premierships in 2021. It is May, a big cluster of teams vying for the top 4 & 8 and a lot of footy yet to be played. 

Was the West Coast game a poor showing? Certainly it was, the Dees can and should play better (mind you, WC Eagles at home are no longer the goal kicking practice they were last season and they will notch up some wins this season) but that doesn't mean the Dees are sinking into a mediocrity hole (just yet). 

This season feels like it will be a very even one amongst the top 10 or 11 teams. Those that hit form at the pointy end of the season can win a flag.

As for heading beyond 2024, trying to recruit a KPF and a pacey midfielder would be my priorities (easier said than done mind you).

 

[Nascent 7,552]

13 minutes ago, No. 31 said:

So now I finally get to see what MFCSS is all about. Drop this talk of closing windows and asterix premierships in 2021. It is May, a big cluster of teams vying for the top 4 & 8 and a lot of footy yet to be played. 

Was the West Coast game a poor showing? Certainly it was, the Dees can and should play better (mind you, WC Eagles at home are no longer the goal kicking practice they were last season and they will notch up some wins this season) but that doesn't mean the Dees are sinking into a mediocrity hole (just yet). 

This season feels like it will be a very even one amongst the top 10 or 11 teams. Those that hit form at the pointy end of the season can win a flag.

As for heading beyond 2024, trying to recruit a KPF and a pacey midfielder would be my priorities (easier said than done mind you).

 

Well said.

The voice of reason on demonland is a Carlton supporter. That checks out actually.

[D Rev 371]

3 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

I agree mostly .

And despite others, I too thought Salo was good. Especially considering his considerable absence.

Anb and Kozzie too although Kozzys disposal at times was substantially errant. 

But the fact we are mentioning only 3 players is very alarming 

What has happened to our midfield? Tracca look like he was wearing cement shoes trying to chase Reid. But his midfield companions were all down in form and have been for a while.

Viney is a shadow of his yesteryear form. He must be struggling with some sort of injury.

And Sparrow never really seems to step up. Plays the odd good game but rarely back to back.

And our fwd line is to be quite frank a complete shambles. Despite Fritta and Kozzie who both give at most around a combination of about four goals, we can't kick winning scores.

We have kicked 100 points plus once this year. Petty really shouldn't be playing after only giving only one good account 

But it comes down to a case of the cupboard being empty. I read the Casey reports and we don't really seem to have much depth. Besides the fact that we are already playing a fair amount of young players already.

And I'm not just referring to our fwd line depth. We don't seem to be overflowing with mids and wingmen. 

This is the biggest concern for me. A lack of a bog bodied tall fwd or two like Hogan or Tmac of old who good boot four a game each. 

And someone to come in when Langers can't or Sparrow gets dropped.  There is no real pressure on players in terms of being relegated to the twos like a few years ago.

It used to be Sparrow was competing for his spot and players like Milkshake were also competing for a game.

All that aside you are correct in this being an incredibly close season.

This round was proof of that with all it's upsets. Being slightly off will see top teams defeated by lesser ones. So the top four is still wide open.

We have survived without a potent fwd line by having a power house of a backline. But it's just not enough when our midfield falls in a heap. Our slow starts are baffling and the coaches need to do something significant about our game prep.

All in all, unless we can fix our fwd line we are going to struggle. I'm sure our midfield will sort itself out soon . But it better hurry. Salo or Rivers in the middle will help. Or perhaps even giving Bowey a few rotations.

But I don't know about or scoring problem. Jvr has gone backwards in form to last year. Chandler has disappeared again like last year and should be dropped. But who do we replace him with?

So for me I think there are some pretty big issues that will exclude us from the top four despite the very even comp.

We are using players like Bbb who is really struggling because there is nobody else. And Bbbs been struggling for two years now. I know someone will say there have been no key forwards to recruit and maybe this is true so I guess it's nobody's fault.

As for our midfielders they really need a rocket up them. To see a young Reid show up our touted great guns was embarrassing.

We look woefully lacking in confidence and skills. There were too many unforced errors and poor decisions made often. In short some horrible panic footy. As much as I love Fritta it was not a good look to see him laughing at times. It wasn't a good look .

The players look like they have lost some passion and if they didn't fight back in the Carlton game I would be extremely worried.

But yesterday we got smashed by the third bottom team when a third top spot was on the line. We didn't want it enough. Pure and simple. No excuses. 

I know we will be playing finals but I'm sure we won't be top four. Yesterday was a must win. And we got thumped.

We have done some great recruiting but we have also lost some good players. And we have recruited some bad ones too. Also losing Gus and Smith has been a big blow.

I really think the window of flags has started to swing shut now and I can't see how we are going to stop it.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I really appreciate your considered and detailed response,  I think we can shut the lid on discuss around the closeness of the competition, given our furious agreement there.

I agree that there are issues with the team, including depth.

However if you look at the top 8 teams in the VFL - 5 of those teams are stand-alone clubs.  Of the AFL affiliated teams, only Geelong is a chance.  The VFL is essentially treated as an extra training session by most AFL sides, and Geelong has been probably the most successful side (overall) in the last 50 years.

So, most other (good) AFL teams dont seem to have a wealth of talent at the ready either.

For us, we've been a victim of our success in that we've had players like Bedford and Jordan in the twos, they simply wont stay if there are better opportunities out there.  Should we have tried to keep them at the expense of others?  Maybe - hindsight is always 20/20.

It's also worth remembering that we lost Brayshaw before the start of the season for absolutely no compensation (to date).  He was in our top 10 players and versatile in ways that can be hard to define.  Clarrie had no pre-season, so is still playing catch up - so we are down 2 of our top midfielders.

Langers, who has been really good this season, was also out Sunday - so thats 3 of our top midfielders out.  No team can replace that sort of talent easily.  Lever was also out early, which also hurt.

Again, the issue when our top players fail (e.g. May), it really exposes the next tier down.

I agree that Sparrow has been disappointing and that BBB and McAdam didn't seem up to it.  We can't really send Sparrow back to Casey as there is noone down there who can play his role.  Laurie doesn't seem up to it while K Brown and Thurstropp need another year or two.  Same with Jefferson.

I disagree about Chandler though, his pressure acts have been incredible. 

The way we play isn't to kick 100 points, its to hold the other team to about 10 goals, then kick more than that.  This is a strategy that holds up in finals and relies more on fitness (which can be developed quickly) than skills (which cannot).

I'm not too worried about our forward line...when we are fit. We had Turner and JVR out, as well as Melksham.  All 3 are smart footballers who can provide a target and run. With our style of play, we need the talls to compete and the rest of the team to lock the ball in and move it forward. 

Fritta has kicked 25 goals this season, while Kozzy, JVR, Trac and Chin all average about a goal per game.  Then there's the others that chip in (Gawn, ANB, Windsor etc).  That's enough to get above the opposition if the defence works.

All in all, with: the closeness in the competition, the draft, the salary cap, travel and injuries - it is very difficult to be competitive every week throughout the whole season for multiple seasons. 

I think we are looking OK in the context of the league and have the opportunity to get better if we can stay fit.

[Rab D Nesbitt 7,390]

[DemonWA 3,571]

2 hours ago, deegirl said:

If Billings isn't worst I'm dying to know who you think is 🤣

One of our many issues is that our bottom five players (which Billings would have to be in) still have a huge gap between their best & worst.  The spuds are spudding it up with regularity and the guns are down on form.  

Our Talls were a bigger let down for me. Brown, Petty, McDonald even May got Slaughtered in the air by Waterman, Darling, Barrass, McGovern etc and had no impact on the game at ground level. 

Those guys break even with their direct opponts,  and we're in the game. 

[binman 39,195]

8 hours ago, titan_uranus said:

Last year Collingwood lost to Hawthorn the week after Hawthorn had lost to St Kilda.

Earlier this year Sydney lost to Richmond, who have just lost by 100 in back to back weeks. 

This.

And this week the flag favourite 3 weeks back, the giants lost its 3rd game on end.

As did the cats, favourite for the flag coming unbeaten into the dees game, with 160 points put past them by a mid table team on the weekend.

Port got smashed by the crows.

Is anyone seriously writing the Giants, cats or Port off?

Footy fans are going to have get used to seemingly crazy results.

There will be plenty more as whether fans want to accept it or pretend it's not a factor, load management and fatigue plays an increasingly significant role in the outcome of home and away games.

[DemonWA 3,571]

5 minutes ago, binman said:

This.

And this week the flag favourite 3 weeks back, the giants lost its 3rd game on end.

As did the cats, favourite for the flag coming unbeaten into the dees game, with 160 points put past them by a mid table team on the weekend.

Port got smashed by the crows.

Is anyone seriously writing the Giants, cats or Port off?

Footy fans are going to have get used to seemingly crazy results.

There will be plenty more as whether fans want to accept it or pretend it's not a factor, load management and fatigue plays an increasingly significant role in the outcome of home and away games.

I'd prefer to agree that form fluctuates for a multitude of reasons.  Load management still unquantifiable impact imo