Why we are where we are

[Key Deefender 143]

I've just returned from a few weeks overseas and saw my first game since Round One last night against West Coast. Throughout the call Gerard Healy kept referring to the bigger bodied West Coast players knocking the Melbourne players off the ball. We really looked like boys on a man's errand. Yet the relative maturity of the two teams would have to be about even. As uninformed as I probably am, given my absence, I feel compelled to voice some thoughts.

Injuries aside, and they have no doubt been a factor, I feel that our summer fitness regime has backfired horribly. Not because of the injuries, as not all are attributable to soft tissue, but because the body strength the players had accumulated over several seasons has now been almost completely eroded.

The semi final loss to Freo sparked a rethink on our game plan and with that, the training and body shape required to carry out this new way of playing - the run and carry - which was what beat us that day on the big ground. This led to summer training based on fining down physiques to enable aerobic fitness and speed to execute this new game plan as well as the ability to run out games. Our pre-season was ordinary to say the least and was a warning of what was to follow.

The problem is that with few genuine speedsters in our side to run other teams off their legs, the grunt and physical side of our game, which had served us so well for the past few seasons, has also no longer been able to be executed. We were the number one tackling team last year, and we were a somewhat physical side. Now we have neither. We don't have the genuine speed to execute run and carry and we don't have physical size and strength to apply genuine pressure. In short - we have nothing!

The Bulldogs are not a big side but there are none faster and Eade has developed a game plan to suit his list. Apart from Davey and maybe Ward, of whom I'm a bit of a fan, but he has questionable disposal and is nearing the end, there are no genuinely fast players in our team. Buckley may be fast but he hasn't played a game. There are not too many genuinely slow ones either, but our ability to run teams off their legs was never going to happen given the speed of our list.

I think Daniher has been caught between two worlds. The one we had, which served us so well but may not have taken us to a flag given the talent holes in our list. And the new world of run and carry, which serves so well teams with the personnel to make it lethal, but leaves floundering, teams without the leg speed to make it so. I can't ever remember a team that so radically altered its game plan between seasons with such an established coach and such an established list. This usually happens when a new coach and match committee come in and sweep the place clean.

So where does all this leave us? With about 8 players who will be 30+ come September, a couple of whom are still worthy of a place, and others who should never play again if the list is to move forward given our position, as well as younger players who will probably never reach the required level, then tough decisions will have to be made. We now are probably back to where we were circa 2003 when crucial retirement and list management decisions were also made.

Whether Daniher should get the chance to do it all again has been debated ad nauseum and I'm not going to add to that here, but the adage of not been able to teach old dogs new tricks has never applied so much as it does to the Melbourne Football Club circa 2007.

[grazman 6,427]

Excellent post KD! It raises a very good point about Danners and his approach. Obviously he's looked at the list and the game plan and made the call that we needed to change something to be a true premiership threat. Many of us may disagree with his assessment, but he's also in a much better position to judge these things. In hindsight it has failed spectacularly, but as you point out injuries haven't helped. It maybe, however the season we needed to have. I believe the core strength in our list is still there, but the weaknesses that have been there for a while have been badly exposed. Kudos to Danners - he could have simply continued to do what we had always done and we could have papered over some of the cracks, but he chose to try something new and in the end may have wittingly or unknowingly addressed those cracks.

[Scoop Junior 2,963]

Kudos to Danners - he could have simply continued to do what we had always done and we could have papered over some of the cracks, but he chose to try something new and in the end may have wittingly or unknowingly addressed those cracks.

Can't agree there Graz.

Changing the mix of a side is a long process. It probably took us from 2000 until last year to develop a strong-bodied midfield. When you focus all your efforts on building this type of team, invest heavily in these players in early draft selections (Thompson, Sylvia, McLean, Bate, Jones, Bell) and then develop a style based around the talents your players possess, you don't just go an change it because we lost a game to a more in-form opponent at their home ground (Freo final).

So what if Freo out-ran us in that final? They were in red-hot form and a few weeks before that game smashed the Eagles.

I believe too big an emphasis was placed on this game. Why you'd sacrifice the strengths of your side and try to develop a style of football that does not suit the players drafted into the club is beyond me.

[Deetastic 0]

Outsanding Graz! You nailed it!

I have just changed my mind on our coach now you have pointed that out. I take my hat off to ND for taking a BIG risk, making a call, and going for it. But at the end of the day he got it wrong, the club has suffered, our strength (tacking and pressure on the ball) has thus erroded and we are 0-8.

We have been terrible at run and carry all season. ND failed to take into consideration the sort of players we had on our list when he instructed everyone to trim up, loose streagth in the hope to gain speed.

ND should go...................... if we can get our hands on a premiership coach.

[The Backyard Charizard 1,178]

ND should go...................... if we can get our hands on a premiership coach.

ND will go so we can get our hands on a premiership coach (past or future)

[Slartibartfast 15,761]

Good post KD.

This season, which promised so much and has delivered so little, is almost impossible to judge. It was to be the season that would show whether the moons would line up with our youth and experience and allow us a crack at the flag. We'll never know now.

Our two best youth players (Rivers and McLean) have played 4 of 16 games. Neitz a few more but clearly inconvenienced and Robbo 2 games. Whelan has hardly been sighted and Pickett... enough said. A team that needed everything going right to have a crack has had things go terribly wrong. Having said all that, no wins from 8 games is an unacceptable result.

What would have happened if those key players had played? We'd have won games, but how many? What we can't judge is the impact the injuries and the loss of games has on the confidence of the players and the team . But it's significant.

All these things compound to make a list, that as Graz say is still sound, look terrible. What part of the result this year is game plan, what part list and what part coaching? What is clear is that we are not robust.

Whilst Sunday was terrible I'm not actually drawing any conclusion from that performance because we weren't the first and won't be the last team to be comprehensively trashed by a class outfit on their home soil.

The vitriol of the websites and the cruel comments made by "supporters" about the players and the coaching staff is their domain. It's the ugly side of human nature and football. But the ones that face a most difficult time are those charged with the responsibility to administer our club into the future and at the moment they are facing the prospect of having to make those decisions without the relevant information.

I don't envy them and I feel for those that have put in so much only to see the season, and the inevitable impact it will have on the careers of many, ruined.

[Jaded No More 57,800]

Well done KD, you are spot on.

Daniher has spent years trying to copy other teams' success. First by getting hard-bodied players like Brisbane, then by shifting the emphasis to tempo, pressure footy like Sydney. Now it is all about the run and carry that teams like Freo and West Coast implement.

The problem is, that we are not Brisbane, or Sydney or West Coast. We have different strengths and weaknesses, and one of the main weaknesses we have is our inability to come up with a truly unique game plan that suits our players, and our players only.

We become too predictable too soon, or we fail to emulate the successful clubs altogether. Like in 2004, when teams quickly realised that we would go through the centre corridor at every opportunity.

Copying other sides is a true sign that we lack vision. Rodney Eade went from introducing the flood at Sydney, to quickening the game at the Doggies, yet we have never had a truly unique game-plan that leaves other teams struggling to catch up to us.

For once, I want to see other clubs copying us. I'm sick of always doing the chasing.

[waynewussell 4,088]

Kee Dee...best post I have read for ages, and I read a dozen times a day. The best thing that could happen now that we are getting key players back is to return to a game plan that suits the 'G'... Yep, last year's method, if our players can remember it. I agree with the analysis about lack of muscle but it looks worse when the endeavour is low. Our previous two games were good. I don't think we have lost all grunt. Players such as Neitz, Jones, Sylvia, Bate, Johnson, Bell, Robbo (expect return), Wheels & Rivers (hopeful of return) are quite capable of delivering in the muscle department.

[mauriesy 6,790]

The problem is that with few genuine speedsters in our side to run other teams off their legs, the grunt and physical side of our game, which had served us so well for the past few seasons, has also no longer been able to be executed. We were the number one tackling team last year, and we were a somewhat physical side. Now we have neither. We don't have the genuine speed to execute run and carry and we don't have physical size and strength to apply genuine pressure. In short - we have nothing!

I think the points you make might well be valid. But I'd want to see some figures about player weights and aerobic capacity (which we probably won't get) rather than just judging from an "impression" about how they "look".

Certainly fitness and aerobic capacity was a primary objective at season's start, or else we wouldn't have hired new staff in this department. And you can't have great endurance with an overly-muscled body. It's also well-known (e.g. athletics) that power and endurance are essentially exclusive. Fast-twitch muscle fibres can "explode" but need constant rotation, slow-twitch fibres can go all day but are exactly that ... slower. But it would take more than just a couple of commonly-mentioned players like Bruce (who's never been well-built) and Jones (who does seem to run better) as evidence. Generally, I can't see how their performance has waned vis-a-vis last year.

If anything, the problem still seems to me to be the bigger-bodied players that we don't have rather than the size of the bodies we do. The "spine" on Sunday was weak for starters ... no big but quick full-back for Lynch, no tall top-level CHB, no McLean or Moloney in the middle, no imposing CHF, and an out-of-form Neitz at FF.

Probably in a past life I was Doubting Thomas, and my sceptical side says I want to feel the nail holes rather than just believe. I'd like to see some concrete evidence before we make assumptions about the mismatch between the team and the game plan, but I'm happy to be convinced.

[grazman 6,427]

I think the points you make might well be valid. But I'd want to see some figures about player weights and aerobic capacity (which we probably won't get) rather than just judging from an "impression" about how they "look".

Jones -4kgs

Bruce -3kgs

Green -3kgs

Jonstone no change

McDonald +1kg

Dunn -3 kgs

Bell + 1 kg

Bate + 1kg

This isn't my area of expertise at all, but obviously there have been far more players trimming down than adding weight. Of course looking good in the mirror and getting the ball aren't associated - look at Ricky. But I think KD's points still has merit in relation to the clear direction the footy department took and how this impacted on the physical conditioning of the players. Of course some players like Judd have both size and endurance.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

Yep, great post, and as Jaded said, it has been raised before this problem of Daniher copying whoever won the flag the year before... Seems to me that's EXACTLY what you do if you are looking for genuine mediocrity... which is what we have been under ND.

I raised this point during the pointy end of the pre-season, just before the NAB cup.

Jones and Brock had trimmed down significantly, and I raised some concern, and was widely disagreed with. I claimed the key to both Brock and Jones's best footy was their hard bodies, their confidence when copping a hit, and most of all their willingness and ability to barge right on through tackles.

To be honest, I think Jones was going in the right direction. He used to run himself into the ground, it taxed him and at the end of games it showed. But I do think he overdid it. The same with Brock. In what little I've seen of him this year, I was HUGLY concerned with what he showed.

KD, you're absolutely right. Melbourne are to football what a Mack Truck is to F1 racing. We stand to improve ENORMOUSLY next season if they identify this problem and correct it.

How good would it be if ND had a personality overhaul, Gardiner rehired him next season, and he redefined modern footy by bringing back the Essendon-style Biff? During their peak they were EASILY the most reported and suspended team in the league. They'd get pinged time and time again, but they got their money's worth. If Neale started to make his team MONSTER other sides by being the toughest, heaviest and hardest tackling, ALONG with being the best kicks (we have the cattle in that regard) we could take the competition on.

But that won't happen.

[Jaded No More 57,800]

Jones -4kgs

Bruce -3kgs

Green -3kgs

Jonstone no change

McDonald +1kg

Dunn -3 kgs

Bell + 1 kg

Bate + 1kg

Have you got any statistics on Moloney and Sylvia?

I'd be interested to see whether they were made to lose weight, in order to reduce the stress on their groin, which would make sense.

I think Jones was on the plump side last year, and he needed to lose the weight to gain endurance. He was struggling to run out quarters last year, now he can run all day.

My issue is not with the weight gain or loss. Big-bodied players will always be just that, big-bodied. You can make Moloney or Bell lose a few kilos, and they will still be powerful tanks, whereas Bruce will always be on the lean side.

The real worry, is that we chop and change and adapt our game style on a yearly basis, but our list doesn't change. Now, of course it is easier to change the game plan, and not the players, but in making tactical changes, you need to work with what you have. Instead, we are working with what we wish we had, which is leg speed and superior skill level. When really, what we have worked on all summer is endurance, and getting our players to run all day. Can you really make better endurance players while increasing their leg speed at the same time?

And in doing all this extra training, weight loss, etc etc... we seem to have forgotten the main thing that wins sides games, and that is our skills level. We were always a good kicking team, who have spent all summer working on handballing, and when that failed, have completely forgotten how to use their feet.

Something has gone horribly wrong, and we can't just blame the injuries.

In the next 2 weeks, we should be close to having our best 22 out on the field again (give or take Bartram and Pickett). We will have no more excuses, but we will still have a game plan that doesn't suit our players, and a fundamental lack of skills.

[steve_f 40]

Injuries aside, and they have no doubt been a factor, I feel that our summer fitness regime has backfired horribly. Not because of the injuries, as not all are attributable to soft tissue, but because the body strength the players had accumulated over several seasons has now been almost completely eroded.

So where does all this leave us? With about 8 players who will be 30+ come September, a couple of whom are still worthy of a place, and others who should never play again if the list is to move forward given our position, as well as younger players who will probably never reach the required level, then tough decisions will have to be made. We now are probably back to where we were circa 2003 when crucial retirement and list management decisions were also made.

Whether Daniher should get the chance to do it again has been debated ad nauseum and I'm not going to add to that here, but the adage of not been able to teach old dogs new tricks has never applied so much as it does to the Melbourne Football Club circa 2007.

I do not have a problem with the performance in rounds 2, 3, 5 & 6. Can't recall round 4. We made honest endeavours. ND came up with some good match-ups before the game. But we were defeated by injuries.

In round 1, ND came out and said that surprise! surprise! the team was running and carrying excessively. This is unacceptably evasive to me because posters who saw the pre-season had been had been ringing alarm bells over this new bizarre game-plan

Round 7 and ND bemoans our slow start. Evasive; in the last quarter, the Eagles kick 6 goals to 2. It is up to ND to develop and pick each week, players that are switched on. But not in the last decade. His loyalty is not to us members but to the players that he has known for yonks.

It would have been nice to see what he could have done with a full complement of fit players. One last shot at redemption for bith him and MFC but it is not to be. So he must go and we must hope for a messiah not just a competent coach and with a will of iron; God knows we don;t havr one.

[Tim56 0]

The problem is that Daniher has never been an original thinker. The list we have is not as bad as 0-8.

I think questions have to be asked about the appointment of Babijczuk - the exact same thing has happened here as at Hawthorn, that is, heaps of soft tissue injuries.

[45HG 1,539]

I do not have a problem with the performance in rounds 2, 3, 5 & 6. Can't recall round 4. We made honest endeavours. ND came up with some good match-ups before the game. But we were defeated by injuries.

Round 7 and ND bemoans our slow start. Evasive; in the last quarter, the Eagles kick 6 goals to 2. It is up to ND to develop and pick each week, players that are switched on. But not in the last decade. His loyalty is not to us members but to the players that he has known for yonks.

It would have been nice to see what he could have done with a full complement of fit players. One last shot at redemption for bith him and MFC but it is not to be. So he must go and we must hope for a messiah not just a competent coach and with a will of iron; God knows we don;t havr one.

honest endeavours in 2 and 3? we were shocking against the hawks, something more than just injuries, and were even more meek against the cats. injuries, injuries, injuries, this word is brought up too often when we all know this game is played between the ears. at this stage of the season we had bad injuries, sure, but nothing that should have made us play the type of footy we did, with the kind of attitude we did.

round 6 was the dogs by the way, not sure how many games you've been watching. round 4 was freo

[Bobby McKenzie 2,169]

The problem is that Daniher has never been an original thinker. The list we have is not as bad as 0-8.

I think questions have to be asked about the appointment of Babijczuk - the exact same thing has happened here as at Hawthorn, that is, heaps of soft tissue injuries.

Please don't blame Bohdan Babijczuk. He is a very succesful and conscientious physical fitness exponent who has been a physical education teacher for over 20 years. He has coached and trained some track and field stars and they have not pulled muscles on the track despite the serious competition they have encountered. Blame the pace of the game, the element of bad luck, the surface of Telstra and the deliberate or accidental physical contact that occurs. Just because bloke does a hammy does not in any way mean he is not fit. It even happened to Judd last year and I reckon no one said it was anyone's fault. When Davey did his last year did you immediately think it was the fault of our then fitness man?

[Gorgoroth 12,317]

we have no MFC game plan, we play players who cant kick the ball more than 20 meters and hit a target and this year our 1%ers have been severly lacking

bruce and green losing weight is baffling, not like they had any on them in the first place, especially bruce

[Al`s DEMONS 0]

14 games left. How many more slow starts are going to `kill us`. Injuries or not, ND cant get in side the players heads. We struggle to play 4 qtrs, struggle to thump sides, we are no longer mentally or physically tough. Come to think of it, mental toughness has been lacking for some time. We should do some tackling drills with the Melbourne Storm. Learn how to hit opponents hard but fair. Simple things like every player tackled must be wrapped up and put to ground, not allowed to get off a handpass. If you are not getting a kick, why not say Im going to apply so much pressure on my direct opponent Ill force a turnover and win myself a kick.

GET BACK TO BASICS

[old55 21,288]

Excellent post KD! It raises a very good point about Danners and his approach. Obviously he's looked at the list and the game plan and made the call that we needed to change something to be a true premiership threat. Many of us may disagree with his assessment, but he's also in a much better position to judge these things. In hindsight it has failed spectacularly, but as you point out injuries haven't helped. It maybe, however the season we needed to have. I believe the core strength in our list is still there, but the weaknesses that have been there for a while have been badly exposed. Kudos to Danners - he could have simply continued to do what we had always done and we could have papered over some of the cracks, but he chose to try something new and in the end may have wittingly or unknowingly addressed those cracks.

Great post KD and for me Graz is spot on.

To take the next step something needed to change, otherwise we would have been perennially 5th-8th.

Our record at AAMI is deplorable, we've lost 9 in a row there and the one prior to that that we won was in the wet with the Schwarz-Leoncelli miracle. At Subi we're not much better - 6 losses in a row back to, you guessed it, the Vardy miracle in the wet again. We were never going to win the flag on this basis. Perhaps we should just have prayed for rain.

As Graz says the plan has horribly backfired, if KD is correct who was to know that we would sacrifice our strengths by implementing the plan. I'm sure ND and the FD saw it adding to our armoury, not changing it. The plan in itself is not a bad plan. WC were magnificent with run and carry AND strength at the contest on Sunday. The fact is that our coaching department and players have been unable to implement it.

Everyone here knows I have been a strong supporter of ND and the ADDITION of run and carry to our strategies. It has failed but I understand why we have been trying to do.

[Jarka 767]

I believe too big an emphasis was placed on this game. Why you'd sacrifice the strengths of your side and try to develop a style of football that does not suit the players drafted into the club is beyond me.

I believe this post also sums up our situation very well. Daniher seems to be unable to get the best out of his players by creating a game plan around them, that's whyhe always looks for other clubs tactics and model's ours on theirs.

[Rampaging Demons 1]

Is it Daniher's fault that the players cannot do the simple things - like man up, beat your direct opponent, hit a target 20 metres away, talk to a team mate, shepherd for a team mate, do the unselfish running to space, the run from behind, lay a tackle, etc.

I would love to know the number of handball receives from the weekend....

There is absolutely no passion in the playing ranks - when a goal is kicked, everyone just assumes their positions. When Cam Bruce was knocked over not one player remonstrated, etc.

I bleed this club and trust me, when I see efforts like I saw was dished up on Sunday - it is embarrassing and really struggle to be able to defend the 22 players that were on the park...

Game plan is one thing, being able to do the basics is another and to be honest, we can't even do that!!

[Bay Riffin 1,413]

The Dees only seem to get true spirit when we are flying - oh to have the shinboners spirit with our talent.

[Demon15 0]

Copying other sides is a true sign that we lack vision.

For once, I want to see other clubs copying us. I'm sick of always doing the chasing.

Exactly Jaded.

Countless times have I just wished we could do something original. Some great team performances over the 10 years of ND, eg

2000 Prelim

1998 elim against Crows

Last years elim aginst Saints,

but not enough of them, and never any certainty , always the fear that something will go wrong.

[Jonesy is the next captain 0]

I am not sure how many times I have to say this, but do any of you seriously think that before the ball bounced round one we were a premiership contention? I am a realist I love the club, I love the Rev but we cannot beat the likes of West Coast, Adelaide Port Adelaide, Sydney even when we are at our best. So stop the whingeing, yes we are below where we expected but the only way is up from here we cant get any worse

[Jaded No More 57,800]

I am not sure how many times I have to say this, but do any of you seriously think that before the ball bounced round one we were a premiership contention?

Yes, and so did the club.

Otherwise, they wouldn't have tried to copy the premiers' game plan.

Old, I agree that additional run was necessary, but that could have easily been done by introducing extra runners to the backline like Bell, Green, Bartram (who granted, is injured). The over-handballing, over-possessing rubbish that we've seen since Round 1 makes no sense, especially when implemented at the MCG. We've won all but 1 of our games at the G' last year, and yet we messed around with a winning formula. If it's not broken, why fix it?

We have been a kicking side for years, and yet we can't hit a target this year. Players who used to be great users of the footy, no longer are. What has happened there?