Ben Brown - third forward & back-up ruck

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

Do people even watch football? Ben Brown is not a ruckman. Not in any way, shape or form. 

[DeeZone 9,843]

That is so true Ethan.😁

[Jeremy 981]

13 minutes ago, Wizard of Koz said:

Absolutely. Without wanting to sound like the Rono of 24, our time with BB should have been over 2 years ago. Last year was just embarrassing and this year is the year where het is an encumbrance to the list development. Whatever the reasons were back then for a 4 year contract are coming back to bite us now.

And before I get roasted, yes I know he is a 21 immortal. He kicked 3 against a very undersized and ordinary WB backline in the GF. He was handy for sure but I reckon Jack Fitzpatrick would have even kicked a couple during the hour of power.

Bang on, Tom McDonald and Ben brown will both be wasted list spots all year, very ordinary list management. Why was Schace re signed also? He and Fullarton are the exact same player, tall forwards who can pinch hit in the ruck. Neither a pure ruckman. We desperately needed another pure ruck backup for Gawn and they went and got another tall forward? Bizzare. Where is our Brayden Preuss or ruckman of that calibre waiting in the wings when Gawn gets injured or rested at age 32? Is Verrall it? At age 19? Do not want to see JVR having to do extended minutes in the ruck but I feel like he will. How this wasn’t addressed in the trade period coupled with the loss of three inside midfielders and no replacements dumbfounds me a bit

[Dee Zephyr 19,267]

lol some people need to really chill. Imagine when the real shiit starts 

[chookrat 4,250]

14 hours ago, Romey said:

Our game style has not allowed us to see the best of Ben Brown. As our key target, he has often been left to compete in two-on-one contests in a congested forward line. With Van Rooyen and Petty now the main targets it could free up Brown to play the third tall and support Gawn in the ruck. (At 200cm his height is exactly the same as Fullarton.)

While I am excited about Fullarton’s potential, the thought of a fit and unshackled Brown playing this role excites me more. 

The guy can also run. He holds 15th place in the AFL’s all-time game distance record at 17.3km - only 6 players have ever run further in a game since records began.
Against a third tall defender his long leads to the wing and doubling back to the goalsquare could play to his strengths and make him quite formidable. This to me makes more sense than converting Grundy to a forward.

Does anyone else agree?

Stats can be deceiving, of the 17.3kms I think you will find the majority of these were hus runup when kicking for goal.

[loges 6,767]

1 hour ago, Wizard of Koz said:

Absolutely. Without wanting to sound like the Rono of 24, our time with BB should have been over 2 years ago. Last year was just embarrassing and this year is the year where het is an encumbrance to the list development. Whatever the reasons were back then for a 4 year contract are coming back to bite us now.

And before I get roasted, yes I know he is a 21 immortal. He kicked 3 against a very undersized and ordinary WB backline in the GF. He was handy for sure but I reckon Jack Fitzpatrick would have even kicked a couple during the hour of power.

Irrelevant who he played on, that's the opposition's responsibility 

[Robbie87 139]

I vote for JVR is the one to watch as forward/ruck. Mobile, good below his knees, good hands, tough, tackles, has some speed - not sure about tank. Impressed with his ability to palm the ball to advantage in his forays into ruck last year. I see some similarities to Luke Jackson, but potentially better in the dual role, particularly up forward. Remember he also played defence in his pre-draft year so could be useful in rucking back half play too. I think BBB stays fwd when JVR rucks for Max, Gawn rests off ground, BB goes to bench when JVR is forward- this will help keep both Max and BBB fresher through the season, and keep JVR more in the game.

[Cranky Franky 2,061]

16 hours ago, Romey said:

Our game style has not allowed us to see the best of Ben Brown. As our key target, he has often been left to compete in two-on-one contests in a congested forward line. With Van Rooyen and Petty now the main targets it could free up Brown to play the third tall and support Gawn in the ruck. (At 200cm his height is exactly the same as Fullarton.)

 

Dear Romey I don't want to be condescending but please educate yourself about football a bit.

Either you haven't watched a lot or else you haven't watched BB play much. He is totally inept in the ruck, embarrassing in fact.

 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,755]

6 hours ago, Romey said:

You’re probably right, but we need to remember that we are comparing him to Van Rooyen or Fullarton to provide ruck relief for four minutes a quarter. The rest of the time he will be playing forward where he could be a competent third tall.

I honestly have no idea how he would go in the ruck as I can’t recall him taking a ruck contest in his time at the Dees. In general play he seems to do a decent job of tapping the ball to our advantage in contested packs, so it’s not out of the question he could hold his own.

A ruckman needs to do more around the ground than tapping the ball. Brown doesn't have sufficient capability below his knees to offer value as a ruckman. He can pinch hit in the forward line because it's always more crowded with others who can hunt the ball once it's on the ground. 

 

[rpfc 28,433]

Was this topic started to get me to post? To boost engagement? To make me angry?! 

Well you have succeeded.

Hes a FF in his last year. His knees need to be protected at all costs to get the most out of him. 

JVR is the back up ruck until Fullerton can displace him hopefully so JVR can concentrate on being a CHF. 

Strike 1 for the OP…

Lest we hope to not be betwixt like this again…

[Roger Mellie 4,025]

7 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Hes a FF in his last year. His knees need to be protected at all costs to get the most out of him.

I totally agree with this. In fact, I'd almost prefer if his preseason started in June to get him fit and firing for the finals*. I really don't see the point in him looking great in January with that knee further degenerating as he hobbles through the long season.

*Not expecting him to feature but at least he'd be more likely to be fresh and available.

[rpfc 28,433]

8 minutes ago, Roger Mellie said:

I totally agree with this. In fact, I'd almost prefer if his preseason started in June to get him fit and firing for the finals*. I really don't see the point in him looking great in January with that knee further degenerating as he hobbles through the long season.

*Not expecting him to feature but at least he'd be more likely to be fresh and available.

Well it’s a better plan for him to be successful than putting him in the ruck…

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

5 hours ago, La Dee-vina Comedia said:

A ruckman needs to do more around the ground than tapping the ball. Brown doesn't have sufficient capability below his knees to offer value as a ruckman.

My recollection is that when he went on his long lead and was spoiled, he mainly got the ball🤔

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

woops

Edited January 21 by redandbluemakepurple
wrong trhead

[BDA 22,755]

His knees are practically shot. Rucking is the last thing he should be doing.

[tallstuey 35]

Brown a ruckman Romey? Funniest post ever. 

Height does not make a ruckman.  The ability to position ones body, to have soft marking hands, to adjust your palming hand in a milli-second and most importantly to operate at ground level like Max all make a ruckman great. I havent seen Ben bend below his shins in years. Don't get me wrong. Love the bloke and his accuracy....but he is not much rucking good.  :-)

[Sir Why You Little 37,039]

Is this some kind of Joke?

[Sigil 1,001]

I like new threads in the off season but...

 

[redandbluemakepurple 358]

1 hour ago, Sir Why You Little said:

Is this some kind of Joke?

 

Edited January 21 by redandbluemakepurple

[DiscoStu17 731]

12 hours ago, Jeremy said:

Bang on, Tom McDonald and Ben brown will both be wasted list spots all year, very ordinary list management. Why was Schace re signed also? He and Fullarton are the exact same player, tall forwards who can pinch hit in the ruck. Neither a pure ruckman. We desperately needed another pure ruck backup for Gawn and they went and got another tall forward? Bizzare. Where is our Brayden Preuss or ruckman of that calibre waiting in the wings when Gawn gets injured or rested at age 32? Is Verrall it? At age 19? Do not want to see JVR having to do extended minutes in the ruck but I feel like he will. How this wasn’t addressed in the trade period coupled with the loss of three inside midfielders and no replacements dumbfounds me a bit

Having TMAC and BBB probably playing 50% or more time in the seconds is no bad thing in my opinion. They are experienced players and quality people who will only help the correct development of the younger players. Along with Schache and Fullarton, they provide great depth for the forward line, and a little depth in ruck. All except for BBB could provide emergency coverage for Max. If longer coverage is required, Verrall may get a look in depending on how he is developing. It will be interesting to see the effect of 2 seasons competing against Max, Grundy, JVR etc in ruck and May, Lever etc in the air. The loss of those 3–4 experienced midfielders will certainly leave a hole. Perfect opportunity for some of the younger draftees and players with a few AFL games to show what they can do and state their claim.

[defuture15 899]

BB should be the long option in the square. The other forwards should be on the move.

If we can get the smalls to crumb to him it would be a good plan.

Must be quicker with our movement 

The flooding in the forward line is killing us

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,834]

BBB once had 11 hitouts in a game back in 2016 so he clearly would've been the back up ruck to Goldstein that night. So the idea isn't without complete merit and it's not as if the poster is suggesting Spargo takes the third key defender role in preference to Tomlinson.

However, as mentioned the guy can barely move anymore, has had to be nursed in every season he's been with us, couldn't make himself available for selection in the semi final (even though he was apparently training) when we were crying out for a key forward and quite frankly should have retired last year....(yes, yes I know he's contracted and has every right to fulfil his last year)

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

Hit outs don’t really matter and Brown’s a smart footballer who reads the play well. He plonked himself at CHB in very short patches in some games just to fill the zone. Defensive pressure out of centre bounces would be close to zero tho, so he’d have to stay down and just stay defensive side.

I guess what I’m saying is for 5 minutes a quarter we could probably get away with it if JVR was on fire forward and BBB had to get in to the game.

But otherwise it’s either 3 talls with JVR or Fullarton as the 3rd or we go with 2 talls.

[Macca 16,972]

12 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Hit outs don’t really matter 

Hit outs do matter when the taps are to advantage and one team has the large majority of taps to advantage (say 16 to 4)

Who wouldn't want first use of the ball an extra dozen times? 

But the 2nd ruck is there often just to neutralise with a minimal amount of ruck contests 

The issue however might be Gawn and how much time he can spend on the ball as he gets older.  So, if we require a 2nd ruck needed for a decent amount of ruck duals, Brown is not the answer.  As it stands, it's a big ask just for Brown to be fit and available

If one of our tall forwards (JVR?) is required as the 2nd ruck, we may well play 3 tall forwards so as to not leave ourselves short up forward when the 2nd ruck is required.  When not rucking, does Gawn go to the bench more so than up forward?  

Every player needs to be productive these days so hopefully Fullarton puts his hand up

[DeeSpencer 25,713]

1 hour ago, Macca said:

Hit outs do matter when the taps are to advantage and one team has the large majority of taps to advantage (say 16 to 4)

Who wouldn't want first use of the ball an extra dozen times? 

Even then it’s not a huge issue as long as the ruck is physical or big enough to make sure the opponent can’t hit it 360 degrees. Pedersen was great at that, he’d crash in at make the taps very predictable so our mids could either shark the taps or just crunch the receiver. Brown doesn’t have the bulk but he has the height and long limbs to try to mess with an opponents taps. He’s been generally fine to my eye when he takes boundary thrown ins inside 50.

1 hour ago, Macca said:

The issue however might be Gawn and how much time he can spend on the ball as he gets older.  So, if we require a 2nd ruck needed for a decent amount of ruck duals, Brown is not the answer.  As it stands, it's a big ask just for Brown to be fit and available

Yep I’d never enter a game with the plan for Ben to be the second ruck, just more an option if the game goes a certain way. Brown’s now at the stage where I see little need to protect him unless his form is far better and he’s our main goal kicker. So if he’s in the side and JVR is on fire I’d just throw Ben in after the centre bounces to have a run around.