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PRESEASON TRAINING: Friday 19th January 2024



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4 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

 ANB gave a clinic on how to kick to the opposition when under no pressure.  So no change there. 

 

4 hours ago, adonski said:

ANB hitting his typical September form already!

It’s one thing to criticise Nibs (which imho is unwarranted) but if it has to be done, does it have to be in such a smart-[censored] way? Yes, I know, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but ffs taking disdainful swipes at him is so unnecessary, and definitely not funny (as I’m sure the posters were thinking). 

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ANB is much maligned and seriously underrated- his turnovers usually occur because of his hard running and don’t occur as much as they used to. His goal smarts are much improved. He will end up with a 200+ game career and is a premiership player. Deserves more respect.

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8 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

It’s one thing to criticise Nibs (which imho is unwarranted)

His training has been good. Getting better as he matures.

A practice match doesn't really play to his strengths of, gut running, getting to the contest when others tire, his heart must be like Pharlap, I can even see him as a future captain, he always has something to say to the group.

I am sure he is not undervalued at the club. There was a period a few years ago where he was on the periphery, and in and out of the team. More recently he has it cemented and I cannot see that changing.

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1 minute ago, chook fowler said:

ANB is much maligned and seriously underrated- his turnovers usually occur because of his hard running and don’t occur as much as they used to. His goal smarts are much improved. He will end up with a 200+ game career and is a premiership player. Deserves more respect.

His turnovers usually occur in the most critical stages of the game. When the pressures skye rockets, unfortunately his awareness and disposal by foot turns to water.

I don't think fans are generally fussed when there is a turnover kick by a player. It's where and when you do it in games is why fans get annoyed and unfortunately for Nibs he's got a habit of doing it in crucial stages of the game.

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1 minute ago, kev martin said:

His training has been good. Getting better as he matures.

I am sure he is not undervalued at the club. There was a period a few years ago where he was on the periphery, and in and out of the team. More recently he has it cemented and I cannot see that changing.

Goody and the Club rate him highly, and for good reason. You’d struggle to find a player who tries harder. He simply does not stop running, gives 100% at all times. Dedication in spades. Beats me why he’s so maligned, especially by supporters of his own club. 🤷‍♀️ 

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Go back and watch the last quarter in GF of 2021. Even when we were streeting them, after goals, Nibbles would talk to the players to keep their minds on the game and encourage. Even to Maxie.

Do not underrate his leadership and encouragement on the field. The other players listen to him and I would not bbe surprised if Goody uses him in this role..

And his game is, at times, sublime. At the beginning of the last quarter in 2021 Nibble dribbled (deliberately) the ball to Sparrow on the outside who then kicked to BBB near the square. First goal in the last quarter and the doggies were gone.

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1 hour ago, Jeremy said:

Match sims just happened and our socials team are compiling this [censored]. Says it all. 

It’s just rubbish isn’t? Worst in the league. No interviews or barely any footage. Absolute joke. Just need to look at how the Pies, and especially Dockers/North today went about updating fans on what was going on. Such a neglected area. 

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49 minutes ago, kev martin said:

Did you go to training, or are you responding to a training issue?

Did not go to training, responding to what's been written (this session and others), the state of the injury list, the other well publicised issues and my own ruminations. Been around long enough to see some signs. Hope I'm wrong. 

 

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ANB critics still on his back? Bloody hell, we would’ve been in a much worse space without him last year. Was one of the only ones who hit targets inside 50 consistently. Most underrated player in our side. There’s a reason he’s got a cemented spot in the side every week. 

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Agree with some comments re Nibbler but as Binman and others have pointed out numerous times he gut runs up and down the ground all game, pressuring, supporting, kicking, marking, hand balling and tackling opponents and sometimes when he gets to the end of his run he is running on empty when he takes that last kick, is it any wonder that some go askew. I now appreciate nibblers role in the team and cut him some slack. I still grimace but understand his dilemma.

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48 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

 

It’s one thing to criticise Nibs (which imho is unwarranted) but if it has to be done, does it have to be in such a smart-[censored] way? Yes, I know, everyone’s entitled to their opinion, but ffs taking disdainful swipes at him is so unnecessary, and definitely not funny (as I’m sure the posters were thinking). 

WCW ..we truly value your participation and commitment, connection with the lads.

But guess what... they're there collecting huge coin to do a job .  Now that often doesn't sit well with those close to the boundary...sts.    I personally dont care in that regard.  Yes we're  all human but if you take on the role of AFL player you WILL be under scrutiny...especially of basic skills... kicking being one.

It's a hard gig...player.... they sign on the line.... that incurs expectations. 

Happy families is about participation... AFL is about WINNING . Professional Sports...is only ever about winning. That is after all the nature of competition.  

No one questions Bullens efforts...  but kicking....meh

A lot of good work on grounds/ courts can be laid waste by sloppiness.

I for one agree with George....be good if he kicked it to our lot , not theres 😉

Go well ...cheers

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Also on Nibs: you want someone for our young boys to look up to? He’s your man. Yeah there’s Tracc and Max et al but not everyone will turn out to be a Tracc or a Max, that’s unrealistic. Nibs is a perfect example of what they can be if they put in all they’ve got at all times and stay dedicated and committed, even if they’re not a household name. I oftentimes get to talk to the players and Nibs is one of the most invested there and he has an irrepressible enthusiasm. This is what we want rubbing off on our young kids. He’s an absolute asset to the side. 

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8 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

WCW ..we truly value your participation and commitment, connection with the lads.

But guess what... they're there collecting huge coin to do a job .  Now that often doesn't sit well with those close to the boundary...sts.    I personally dont care in that regard.  Yes we're  all human but if you take on the role of AFL player you WILL be under scrutiny...especially of basic skills... kicking being one.

It's a hard gig...player.... they sign on the line.... that incurs expectations. 

Happy families is about participation... AFL is about WINNING . Professional Sports...is only ever about winning. That is after all the nature of competition.  

No one questions Bullens efforts...  but kicking....meh

A lot of good work on grounds/ courts can be laid waste by sloppiness.

I for one agree with George....be good if he kicked it to our lot , not theres 😉

Go well ...cheers

There’s ways of saying things and there’s ways of saying things. If I take issue with the manner in which someone chooses to express their feelings about one of our players, am I not entitled to my opinion, just as much as they are???

edit: as for your “guess what… they’re on huge coin…” line, I visited Fritta at his house yesterday with his mum and I went for a ride in his brand new Ford Raptor with his girlfriend today… I know how well paid they are. I also know that it comes with a big cost: the Club owns them. I also know the difference between scrutiny and straight-up derision.

 

Edited by WalkingCivilWar
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3 minutes ago, WalkingCivilWar said:

There’s ways of saying things and there’s ways of saying things. If I take issue with the manner in which someone chooses to express their feelings about one of our players, am I not entitled to my opinion, just as much as they are???

 

Of course...and you just validated theirs.. 

Cheers

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28 minutes ago, fr_ap said:

Did not go to training, responding to what's been written (this session and others), the state of the injury list, the other well publicised issues and my own ruminations. Been around long enough to see some signs. Hope I'm wrong. 

 

I guess I have a different opinion.

Injury list is good, mainly getting some transfered players into shape. BBB has always had is own program, Hunter is a worry, old man niggles, Fritta is back, as is Petty, and Melky not too far to go I reckon.

I think the culture stuff has been blown out of proportion.

Oliver only knows footy and being sidelined for 'weeks' last year, hasn't done him any favours. I believe he will play well when he is ready.

The opinion of doom just doesn't fit well with me. In my opinion I see us as a dangerous side. Opposition teams will fear us.

I was expecting a training dialogue not an opinion piece, though thanks for the reply and am happy to engage.

 

Edited by kev martin
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2 hours ago, george_on_the_outer said:

One thing I forgot to mention was the drill/sim after the match sim.  It started again and again on the HBF with the exercise to find a way into attack.  It is probably much needed with the emphasis on rebound goals, which happen more often than pack marks in the forward line that the fans love so much. 

 

Were they noticeably lowering eyes and looking for shorter options moving it from HB or looking for longer options/contests?

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16 minutes ago, kev martin said:

I guess I have a different opinion.

Injury list is good, mainly getting some transfered players into shape. BBB has always had is own program, Hunter is a worry, old man niggles, Fritta is back, as is Petty, and Melky not too far to go I reckon.

I think the culture stuff has been blown out of proportion.

Oliver only knows footy and being sidelined for 'weeks' last year, hasn't done him any favours. I believe he will play well when he is ready.

The opinion of doom just doesn't fit well with me. In my opinion I see us as a dangerous side. Opposition teams will fear us.

I was expecting a training dialogue not an opinion piece, though thanks for the reply and am happy to engage.

 

Training dialogue is all opinion pieces mate. You think so and so looked good. They ran drills that were interesting for reason X Y and Z. All according to you, as you're entitled to present given you make the effort to attend. Either way it's all just footy discussion which is what we're here for. 

The midfield depth is the primary concern. I just don't see how we could cope with Oliver out if say Viney or Trac pick up anything medium to long term. It actually becomes pretty crucial that Gus becomes a part of that rotation and there are some obvious doubts on that. Rivers might make a good mid but we're projecting there, and it will rob us of a very important and strong 1v1 defender that I'm not sure bowey could replace. 

However you cut it, Laurie, Woewodin and [insert out of position journeyman or 18 year old] aren't the quality of depth needed to win a flag (in my opinion). Add our flakey key forward woes where we rely on Petty who's made of glass and a very young KPF in JVR who will have down days, and I just worry about the ability of this list - stars down to the last resort players - to go the distance. 

If everything goes right and we stay healthy, sure, I agree we are a dangerous side. Unlikely we get the best case scenario, though we can hope!

Edited by fr_ap
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31 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Of course...and you just validated theirs.. 

Cheers

Except I didn’t…

Cheers

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1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

No one questions Bullens efforts...  but kicking....meh

A lot of good work on grounds/ courts can be laid waste by sloppiness.

I for one agree with George....be good if he kicked it to our lot , not theres 😉

 

George went fishing i suspect. I was happy to oblige.

Bit of fun.

But leaving that aside, I don't mind posters or fans knocking the skills of players, assuming it aint needlessly rude or insulting (eg the puerile use of spud).

Hell, kicking skills is my thing and I'm happy to pot poor kicks.

What really frustrates me is when the criticism is unfounded, or when it might have been fair at some point but is no longer accurate. 

Even more frustrating when some players get held to some ridiculous standard (ALL players turn the ball over and make poor decisions) and others consistently get a free pass (tracc says hi).

Some posters seemingly refuse to change their view, even when the evidence flatly contradicts it.

Nibbla's supposedly poor kicking and decision making is the perfect example. 

I've posted at length on the data at seasons end that completely contradicts that view (one being he was our best kick inside 50 last season). 

So won't bother doing so again. 

It won't matter for some anyway because they will poo poo the data and pick out specific examples to generalise from - the exception to prove the rule school of analysis.

Perhaps the go is to use that same approach, but in reverse.

I'll learn how to video edit and put together a package from last season of all nibblas brilliant kicks that set up goals and examples of elite decision making.

And then claim it as evidence he is the best kick and decision maker in the AFL.

Edited by binman
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Confidence is a wonderful thing, we have seen what it can do to a players performance, we have seen how our senior players influence and lift the spirits and performance of our younger players and how that escalates their development. Why is this now going to stop? We have seen Petty, Sparrow, JJ, Kozzie, Rivers, Jacko, Bowey, JVR and McVee rocket up the charts. Now we have Laurie, Woey, Turner, Howes searching for a spot in the side and we are seeing positive signs from AMW, Verrall, Adams and Farris-White, plus we have our new group of Windsor, Tholstrup and Brown finding their feet at the club. On top of that we have bought in McAdam to bolster our Fwd line, Billing’s to add class to our mid/fwd and Fullarton a youngish ruck/fwd to support Max and yet we have supporters that see our demise as a force in the AFL. We can’t fit them all in the side but given our success rate they will be ready when and if we need them. Have some confidence in the club. Plus Oliver Sestan and Marty Hore. Can’t believe I left out Jefferson airplane. We really are loaded aren’t we.

Edited by DeeZone
Oliver Seston and Marty Horr
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1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Training dialogue is all opinion pieces mate. You think so and so looked good. They ran drills that were interesting for reason X Y and Z. All according to you, as you're entitled to present given you make the effort to attend. Either way it's all just footy discussion which is what we're here for. 

The midfield depth is the primary concern. I just don't see how we could cope with Oliver out if say Viney or Trac pick up anything medium to long term. It actually becomes pretty crucial that Gus becomes a part of that rotation and there are some obvious doubts on that. Rivers might make a good mid but we're projecting there, and it will rob us of a very important and strong 1v1 defender that I'm not sure bowey could replace. 

However you cut it, Laurie, Woewodin and [insert out of position journeyman or 18 year old] aren't the quality of depth needed to win a flag (in my opinion). Add our flakey key forward woes where we rely on Petty who's made of glass and a very young KPF in JVR who will have down days, and I just worry about the ability of this list - stars down to the last resort players - to go the distance. 

If everything goes right and we stay healthy, sure, I agree we are a dangerous side. Unlikely we get the best case scenario, though we can hope!

Oliver was injured for 10 games between R11 - 21, and we won 7 of those  without him including against Collingwood, Carlton and Brisbane*^. That win ratio of 70% was higher than with him which was 60%.

*The ones we lost were by an average of 8 points per game.


^Interestingly, we lost against those same three clubs when Oliver was in our team (Brisbane R2, Collingwood QF, Carlton SF). Perhaps not having him made us more unpredictable? Bit to think on that.

 

Midfield depth or structure isn’t the issue, it’s been our goal kicking.

Edited by TheWiz
Please see above note under “^”
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1 hour ago, fr_ap said:

Training dialogue is all opinion pieces mate.

Some of the training remarks are opinions backed by observations, some are purely observations. Though some of what I say is opinion with more of a positive empathise. 

I was suggesting that this is a training thread and found your opinions a little left field, but you graciously replied with some reasonable rebukes.

The on-ballers still have Tracc and Viney to lead them. Tracc can turn a game with his plays and Viney can do the same with his will. We have lots of options to join them and I can see plenty in the mix, Kossie, Rivers, Gus, Sparrow. Our contested footy stands up with the best of them.

I reckon you're right about the forward line, and may I add our ability to kick to the forwards advantage is shaky. We also need some smalls to kick goals and get the ball front and centre, especially if Kossie plays mid. I believe the coaches know this and have been working hard to create a well oiled machine, that will also scramble with the koas ball and work hard to get multiple entries. We'll see. 

The other worry I have is the wing. Hunter (I reckon) has seen his best, and I wonder if we have a player with the understanding and engine needed for that position.

Edited by kev martin
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