On 9/23/2023 at 3:30 AM, KingDingAling said:

Who knows how he will go. He wasn’t a good midfield coach though, just like Stafford isn’t a forward line coach, and like Goodwin isn’t a competent coach. I’m indifferent to Yze departing, as we didn’t best utilize him when he was here. 

Your opinion on Goody is not correct as he has grown to be an even better coach since the Flag triumph. 

Feel free to post why he is not a competent coach! Does that mean you judge him as incompetent? 

So much criticism of Goody here. I look back at the season and think: if the goal umpire/ARC system has worked properly we would have beaten Carlton and  ended up second with all that that brings; both finals were lost by a whisker in games where we frankly outplayed our opponents. And to say that Goodwin has used the same tactics for years: i disagree. Yes, he has consistently focused on contested ball and defence, which is what wins finals, but he has changed other things - this year we didn't just kick to the left forward pocket all the time; we were more attacking when we had the chance, but we were cruelled by the lack of fit forwards - serious injuries to Brown, Petty, Fritsch, TMac, leaving us totally reliant on a first year player who then got himself rubbed out for the final against Carlton.

 

I think Stinear is a serious option, but for a forward coach would be happy with Dew. Fagan, BTW, is busy coaching horses.

Edited September 24, 20231 yr by Ollie fan
Typo

48 minutes ago, 58er said:

Your opinion on Goody is not correct as he has grown to be an even better coach since the Flag triumph. 

Feel free to post why he is not a competent coach! Does that mean you judge him as incompetent? 

I wouldn’t say Goody is incompetent, but he is not getting the results expected and our attacking gameplan strategy is flawed. In Goody’s tenure we have only ranked highly for attacking efficiency (shots per i50) once, which was 2021 (ranked #1), and have been bottom half 6x. And if you look at overall season results and compare that to the median of what all 50+ commentators/analysts predicted for us preseason, we exceeded expectations once (2021), met expectations twice (2018 and 2020), and fell short 4x. That to me says the industry in general thinks we have the players, but we are not getting the best out of them and our stats say that is our attacking game plan.

Our attacking strategy has really had 2 different phases under Goody.

From 2017-2020 Goody stubbornly stuck to an i50 strategy to get the ball into the +-30 degree corridor as goals are easier to kick from there.  If you looked at accuracy alone, we were ranked #1 or 2  for expected accuracy (ease of shots) every year from 2017-2020, and even were ranked #1 for overall accuracy in 2017/18.  But our i50 efficiency was poor (especially against top teams) and got worse and worse as time passed and clubs realised how we played. 

2021 with all the coaching changes saw our attacking game plan flipped on its head.  We threw out the old plan and went to the pockets, and it worked. Our expected accuracy dived to #18 but we jumped from bottom of the table to #1 for shots on goal from i50s.

The last 2 years we have stubbornly stuck to that kick to the pockets gameplan, opposition teams have worked it out, and as a result our shots on goal from i50s have steadily dropped. So we now have both poor accuracy and poor efficiency i50. Sure Goody tried a different approach at the start of this year.  But he either wasn’t comfortable with it or lost his nerve, because as soon as we had a few losses we went back to predictability and conservativeness.  If we remain predictable next year, then we will get even worse attacking results than this year which is a scary thought. 

Cameron Bruce would be ideal to bring back. However as the vacancy is the top assistant gig I think they might do a re-shuffle as Chaplin has been a loyal servant and must be sick of the backline. Williams should be considered and is not too old for it. Richardson may still have aspirations. Stafford would struggle to get a gig in little league at the moment. If they recruit somebody untried then it would suit as a line coach to start.

How long is Goodie's tenure going to last? He has a lot of credits in the bank but I sense that the media turned on him a bit this year and the supporters are never far behind.

On 9/23/2023 at 11:23 AM, Ollie fan said:

In the prelim both McRae and Kingsley coached from ground level. They are both doing alright at coaching.

As for replacing Yze,  what about Mick Stinear? He seems to be able to coach.

I like this suggestion, and Melbourne did win the AFLW last year and are a dominant team this year. But with the current Melbourne AFLW list, any coach with even limited ability would be expected to produce these results. In short, I don't know enough about his abilities/talents to know whether they are trabsferrable to the AFL arena.  

3 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I wouldn’t say Goody is incompetent, but he is not getting the results expected and our attacking gameplan strategy is flawed. In Goody’s tenure we have only ranked highly for attacking efficiency (shots per i50) once, which was 2021 (ranked #1), and have been bottom half 6x. And if you look at overall season results and compare that to the median of what all 50+ commentators/analysts predicted for us preseason, we exceeded expectations once (2021), met expectations twice (2018 and 2020), and fell short 4x. That to me says the industry in general thinks we have the players, but we are not getting the best out of them and our stats say that is our attacking game plan.

Our attacking strategy has really had 2 different phases under Goody.

From 2017-2020 Goody stubbornly stuck to an i50 strategy to get the ball into the +-30 degree corridor as goals are easier to kick from there.  If you looked at accuracy alone, we were ranked #1 or 2  for expected accuracy (ease of shots) every year from 2017-2020, and even were ranked #1 for overall accuracy in 2017/18.  But our i50 efficiency was poor (especially against top teams) and got worse and worse as time passed and clubs realised how we played. 

2021 with all the coaching changes saw our attacking game plan flipped on its head.  We threw out the old plan and went to the pockets, and it worked. Our expected accuracy dived to #18 but we jumped from bottom of the table to #1 for shots on goal from i50s.

The last 2 years we have stubbornly stuck to that kick to the pockets gameplan, opposition teams have worked it out, and as a result our shots on goal from i50s have steadily dropped. So we now have both poor accuracy and poor efficiency i50. Sure Goody tried a different approach at the start of this year.  But he either wasn’t comfortable with it or lost his nerve, because as soon as we had a few losses we went back to predictability and conservativeness.  If we remain predictable next year, then we will get even worse attacking results than this year which is a scary thought. 

I know its too soon to bring any rationality to the anaysis of the last 2 years but to put it simply we crashed out of the 2022 finals due to having a crocked-up team that couldn't play the finals out (in both cases we should still have won given our dominance in the first halves). In 2023 we should have won both games and failed to take our chances. Look at who we were missing in our forward line this year at season end. Basically it's not game plan. it's injuries, luck & poor execution at crucial times.

1 hour ago, WesternDee said:

Cameron Bruce would be ideal to bring back. However as the vacancy is the top assistant gig I think they might do a re-shuffle as Chaplin has been a loyal servant and must be sick of the backline. Williams should be considered and is not too old for it. Richardson may still have aspirations. Stafford would struggle to get a gig in little league at the moment. If they recruit somebody untried then it would suit as a line coach to start.

How long is Goodie's tenure going to last? He has a lot of credits in the bank but I sense that the media turned on him a bit this year and the supporters are never far behind.

I don't really care  whether the media turned against him this year. The media between them contribute little and most of them are there because they are ex-players who lack the ability to be current coaches and are happy to ride on the coat tails of their playing careers and take the easy money.

WD the media is the last thing that we need to worry about We have more important fish to fry. We Will potentially have to replace 4-6 players with an excellent draft hand and we need to replace Adem Yze plus refresh our line coaches. We have to sharpen our skills, get our troops fit and ready to fire for season 2024. The media are only interested in the next new thing and Collingwood of course.

I don't like Hird much , however if you want an assistant coach come senior coach he has the football smarts for that. I am not going to let past performances cloud my judgement. McVeigh and Dew are also worth consideration.

For some reason the thought of Dew teaching the players to run through the middle with speed, flair and dare brings a smile to my face.

No to Dew, failed coach with great list. His team wasn’t fit enough

8 hours ago, 58er said:

No but some others either miss the memo or just contribute their wishes ( ignoring or dreaming ) for  the future. 

Its a situation that the Club should embrace and leave no one out of its deliberations.

Firstly we should thank Greg Stafford for his role in the last few years as he is after all a premiership Coach. There are a few dynamics with our mid forward connection and it hasn't been easy but no one can really say he has Solved any of the problems. Needs a more team approach and Goody must get involved as he has overseen and created a far too defensive mindset. 

Some of the better candidates IMO are Dew (but not midfield) McQualter, Pyke, Leppitsch, Enright, Rohan Smith, Stephen King and Cam Bruce. More left field are Selwood and Cotchin to bring youth and success for reinforcement to the table. There are more no doubt in an ever widening net .

I would discount are Ratten but be open to most or all possibilities for our forward  line especially. 

There are a few dynamics with our mid forward connection
Did you mean a few dynamics, or few dynamics?

Stephan King - are you referring to Jeff White’s assailant, or the author?

On 9/22/2023 at 3:50 PM, Demons11 said:

Not a fan of getting Ratten, although the has been great for footy I am not sure he is the sort of person we need.  Goody coaches from the bench and we need an innovator in the box which I don’t think Ratts is 

Ratts transformed our midfield first time around. Maybe he could teach the "Rolls-Royce" how to win a clearance and kick straight...

7 hours ago, Watson11 said:

I wouldn’t say Goody is incompetent, but he is not getting the results expected and our attacking gameplan strategy is flawed. In Goody’s tenure we have only ranked highly for attacking efficiency (shots per i50) once, which was 2021 (ranked #1), and have been bottom half 6x. And if you look at overall season results and compare that to the median of what all 50+ commentators/analysts predicted for us preseason, we exceeded expectations once (2021), met expectations twice (2018 and 2020), and fell short 4x. That to me says the industry in general thinks we have the players, but we are not getting the best out of them and our stats say that is our attacking game plan.

Our attacking strategy has really had 2 different phases under Goody.

From 2017-2020 Goody stubbornly stuck to an i50 strategy to get the ball into the +-30 degree corridor as goals are easier to kick from there.  If you looked at accuracy alone, we were ranked #1 or 2  for expected accuracy (ease of shots) every year from 2017-2020, and even were ranked #1 for overall accuracy in 2017/18.  But our i50 efficiency was poor (especially against top teams) and got worse and worse as time passed and clubs realised how we played. 

2021 with all the coaching changes saw our attacking game plan flipped on its head.  We threw out the old plan and went to the pockets, and it worked. Our expected accuracy dived to #18 but we jumped from bottom of the table to #1 for shots on goal from i50s.

The last 2 years we have stubbornly stuck to that kick to the pockets gameplan, opposition teams have worked it out, and as a result our shots on goal from i50s have steadily dropped. So we now have both poor accuracy and poor efficiency i50. Sure Goody tried a different approach at the start of this year.  But he either wasn’t comfortable with it or lost his nerve, because as soon as we had a few losses we went back to predictability and conservativeness.  If we remain predictable next year, then we will get even worse attacking results than this year which is a scary thought. 

You're argument is flawed on a couple of levels @Wells 11. But the one I've highlighted takes the cake. I'd be interested in what the other 17 coaches, and heads of football, think of Goody.

Like with Board appointments, FMD I am glad fans have little say with appointing Yze’s replacement. 

By and large - NFI.

8 hours ago, Ollie fan said:

So much criticism of Goody here. I look back at the season and think: if the goal umpire/ARC system has worked properly we would have beaten Carlton and  ended up second with all that that brings; both finals were lost by a whisker in games where we frankly outplayed our opponents. 

And if your Aunty had balls she’d be your uncle. 

49 minutes ago, rpfc said:

Like with Board appointments, FMD I am glad fans have little say with appointing Yze’s replacement. 

By and large - NFI.

So how are those Board appointments going? Some being sued for defamation, some not? Internecine squabbles - hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs. Lost a case in the Supreme Court. Lost a costs request in Perth? The Club belongs to its members - let them choose the Board rather than the Putinesque way it is done at the moment.

34 minutes ago, MoeSyzlak said:

And if your Aunty had balls she’d be your uncle. 

If you saw my uncle she would still be my aunty

14 minutes ago, Hawk the Demon said:

So how are those Board appointments going? Some being sued for defamation, some not? Internecine squabbles - hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs. Lost a case in the Supreme Court. Lost a costs request in Perth? The Club belongs to its members - let them choose the Board rather than the Putinesque way it is done at the moment.

Sued for defamation by a person that by now you know @Demonland will not let anyone mention. A person whose own ego is driving a vendetta against your coach. And by extension your club. To drive home a point that humans are in fact human. That we are defined by the empathy we show or we don’t. 
 

And here you are pontificating and posturing with that person’s activities and proclivities as the damnation of the board. But memory and history are the same on this; that person was removed and then the club unified and galvanised. But those with little to say but plenty to whine about have to yell something don’t they?

Oh, and my god you’re an easy bite. I kiss you and throw you back - I have had my fun. Have a good swim.

Jarred Rivers anybody?  Collegians saluted today.

47 minutes ago, Hawk the Demon said:

So how are those Board appointments going? Some being sued for defamation, some not? Internecine squabbles - hundreds of thousands of dollars in legal costs. Lost a case in the Supreme Court. Lost a costs request in Perth? The Club belongs to its members - let them choose the Board rather than the Putinesque way it is done at the moment.

@Demonland can we get a broken record reaction emoji?

Goes against everything i have said for ten years, but i would look hard at Hird.

McVeigh as well should be a contender.

1 hour ago, Jontee said:

Jarred Rivers anybody?  Collegians saluted today.

Assistant coaches were Meesen and Jordie McKenzie too

3 hours ago, Go Lordie said:

Ratts transformed our midfield first time around. Maybe he could teach the "Rolls-Royce" how to win a clearance and kick straight...

19 years ago...

I, like most/all of us, have no real idea about who should replace Yze. All we see if faces on screens, we don't really know what these assistant coaches offer and what they're like in the inner sanctum.

Yze made it clear in his Richmond press conference that he was essentially the 'game day coach'. I suspected this for a long time, as did many of us. A big reason Goodwin coaches from the bench, being the morale/people leader, not the technical leader (same as Leppitsch / McRae at Collingwood). We therefore need to not only replace an Assistant Coach, but recruit a game day coach.

From the little I actually know, I would be loathe to go after Hird. Not because he's not good or flawed. Due to his ego. He applied for the Essendon job at the end of 2022 after spending half a season in a full-time capacity at an AFL club after being initially let go by Essendon, and actually thought he should have got it (Sheedy being his mouthpiece). When he didn't get the job, he got out of the AFL industry altogether (again). If the man had credibility, and really sought a Head Coaching role again, he would have gone to another club in an Assistant Coaching capacity (I'm sure there would have been at least one taker). But no, it was beneath him to do that. He wouldn't be interested in coming to us anyway.

Ratten doesn't give me the impression of having much energy. He looks pretty down beat and flat. This was my feeling in his last year at St Kilda. You don't just roll a Senior Coach either that has two years on a deal to go. At North, he may have done the right thing standing in for Clarkson, but again, he didn't come across as overly inspiring or someone a younger player would walk over water for.

We really need to find a good tactician. 

30 minutes ago, Great Northern Summer said:

I, like most/all of us, have no real idea about who should replace Yze. All we see if faces on screens, we don't really know what these assistant coaches offer and what they're like in the inner sanctum.

Yze made it clear in his Richmond press conference that he was essentially the 'game day coach'. I suspected this for a long time, as did many of us. A big reason Goodwin coaches from the bench, being the morale/people leader, not the technical leader (same as Leppitsch / McRae at Collingwood). We therefore need to not only replace an Assistant Coach, but recruit a game day coach.

From the little I actually know, I would be loathe to go after Hird. Not because he's not good or flawed. Due to his ego. He applied for the Essendon job at the end of 2022 after spending half a season in a full-time capacity at an AFL club after being initially let go by Essendon, and actually thought he should have got it (Sheedy being his mouthpiece). When he didn't get the job, he got out of the AFL industry altogether (again). If the man had credibility, and really sought a Head Coaching role again, he would have gone to another club in an Assistant Coaching capacity (I'm sure there would have been at least one taker). But no, it was beneath him to do that. He wouldn't be interested in coming to us anyway.

Ratten doesn't give me the impression of having much energy. He looks pretty down beat and flat. This was my feeling in his last year at St Kilda. You don't just roll a Senior Coach either that has two years on a deal to go. At North, he may have done the right thing standing in for Clarkson, but again, he didn't come across as overly inspiring or someone a younger player would walk over water for.

We really need to find a good tactician. 

Good post

I think we need to be recruiting for post Goodwin and that means a strategic thinker plus tactician 

Mick Barlow, Leppitsch, Pyke, Dew and Steven King would be my picks.