POSTGAME: SF vs Carlton

[Fat Tony 5,216]

32 minutes ago, Rab D Nesbitt said:

I don't understand the calls to replace Goody. He took a different approach from last year by promoting youth (which worked) and not playing banged up players (mostly). If nothing else he deserves a lot of credit for playing two of our most maligned players who helped us secure a top four finish (Melksham) and almost gained us a preliminary final place (Smith). He also persisted with Petts as a forward who I think (injuries notwithstanding) could well be the tall, strong, mobile presence we need up there. 

I love how he gives the press corps almost nothing and backs our boys publicly. He's the reason all our stars committed to long term deals and why the best from other clubs want to join us. The Gawn - Grundy combo didn't ultimately work because neither are great resting forwards but having BG helped us win games when Max missed a month. We'll also look after him in any trade that sees him leave and we'll lose no capital or friends in doing it. 

We lost 9 games by a collective total of 81 points. That's 9 points a game on average and one of those was by three times that figure. Injury deprived us of Petts & Melky at the pointy end of the season and Ben Brown's degenerative knee will likely see him hang up his boots, leaving us to rely on a very underdone T-Mac and Fritta who was playing with a plate in his foot. Far from ideal yet we almost completely dominated territory and possession in both our finals. I'm sure Macrae and Voss both feel like they've won the lottery right now. 

I really don't know much about the tactical side of AFL football tbh and lean a lot on some of the regulars on here to help make sense of what I see each week. Maybe my one strength is not making daft comments about things I don't really understand. 

I think Goodwin did a good job through the season. We experimented more but suffered from injuries and poor goal kicking when it counted. 

That said, we were very poor disciplined last night and disorganised. Four forward stoppages, we had no nominated ruck when Max was off. 

[chookrat 4,247]

I feel pretty filthy about the result last night and from the week before and it feels like a wasted season where we had a genuine shot at our second flag in 3 years but squandered.  The consistent theme in both finals and during our home and away losses comes down to kicking goals.  Simply put we don't have the star power up forward to kick goals when things aren't going our way. For me that comes down to bringing in a KPF that takes ownership in key moments and allows our other forwards to play their role.

I'm bullish on Petty, Fritch will be back to his best when not injured, Kozzy will benefit from another year of maturity and composure, and with Joel Smith playing well having put together more than a half dozen games. All of these players and our forward line would benefit from a Larkey, Charlie Curnow, Jeremy Cameron, one of the King brothers, Jessie Hogan or even an Aarom Naughton.

Anyway the footy season is dead to me now and I'm going to have a bit of a break from footy.

Edited September 15, 2023 by chookrat

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,913]

8 hours ago, No10 said:

The game style looks horrible.

The only line that looks right is defence.

There’s something very wrong and it isn’t team selection.

I was on board with you until your last point. Schache was sub and an unused one at that…………that is team selection right there. Not to mention our bizarre choice of and use of subs throughout the season.

[dees189227 12,361]

Steven May would have been absolutely fuming last night and even this morning. He did everything in that backline to stop goals and took some great marks in the final term. 

Unfortunately some teamates let him down 

[The heart beats true 18,083]

7 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

Steven May would have been absolutely fuming last night and even this morning. He did everything in that backline to stop goals and took some great marks in the final term. 

Unfortunately some teamates let him down 

I got home from the ground and saw some of the post match on 7. They were reluctant to say how much he towelled up Curnow. Saying stuff like ‘probably got the better of him.

May absolutely decimated Curnow. He out marked him one on one so consistently that in the last quarter Curnow was just trying to bring the ball to ground.

Steven May was extraordinary in that game. He has every right to be filthy. He couldn’t have done more.

Edited September 15, 2023 by The heart beats true

[Travy14 1,907]

Whilst the selection wasn't the best in game we had some discipline issues.

Kossie turning over a set shot on goal, and 2 x 50m penalties 

Oliver 50m penalty 

Sparrow throwing Walsh into the fence

we lost by 2 points, this things cost you finals!

 

[Dee Viney Intervention 1,913]

7 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

It probably would've been touched by the Blues player but he should've shepherded it through.

Maybe…… Carlton players have very long fingers

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

3 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I got home from the ground and saw some of the post match on 7. They were reluctant to say how much he towelled up Curnow. Saying stuff like ‘probably got the better of him.

May absolutely decimated Curnow. He out marked him one on one so consistently that in the last quarter Curnow was just trying to bring the ball to ground.

Steven May was extraordinary in that game. He has every right to be filthy. He couldn’t have done more.

If someone told me pre-game that we’d keep Curnow to 1 goal I’d have said we win, easy. No way we lose if we keep Curnow to a goal. How the [censored] did we manage to lose when May kept Curnow to a goal?

[John Demonic 5,702]

16 minutes ago, chookrat said:

I feel pretty filthy about the result last night and from the week before and it feels like a wasted season where we had a genuine shot at our second flag in 3 years but squandered.  The consistent theme in both finals and during our home and away losses comes down to kicking goals.  Simply put we don't have the star power up forward to kick goals when things aren't going our way. For me that comes down to bringing in a KPF that takes ownership in key moments and allows our other forwards to play their role.

I'm bullish on Petty, Fritch will be back to his best when not injured, Kozzy will benefit from another year of maturity and composure, and with Joel Smith playing well having put together more than a half dozen games. All of these players and our forward line would benefit from a Larkey, Charlie Curnow, Jeremy Cameron, one of the King brothers, Jessie Hogan or even an Aarom Naughton.

Anyway the footy season is dead to me now and I'm going to have a bit of a break from footy.

Understandable mate. My only solace will be seeing the Lions win a prelim and grand final by 10 goals x2. At least then I might feel like we didn't actually squander anything, and that a club like them, who've been contending for half a decade, finally put together a finals similar to ours in 21 and were worthy winners, that nobody could've stopped.

 

Edited September 15, 2023 by John Demonic

[Dee*ceiving 1,662]

It hurts because we came so close 

It hurts because we tried so hard but failed

From hurt comes resilience 

We will fight again 

[titan_uranus 24,963]

20 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

Yep and Viney will be living with that all pre season. That was the turnover kick that set up the winner

The kick was poor but so unfair to blame the loss on Viney. 

Lever has the ball on half-back and can’t find a target. That’s on him and the rest for not making an option. 

The next contest had a bunch of 50/50 moments that could have gone either way but we still ended up with Viney who, yes, panicked and turned it over.

But despite Weitering playing on quickly, somehow we were outnumbered in our D50. In the 20 seconds it takes them to switch and go deep, the only player within cooee of Acres is Fritsch. The back half structure from the time of the Lever kick was appalling.

[RedFox 510]

Incredibly flat. Being at the game stung. The fact that we lost this largely due to missing shots is incredibly hard to stomach. Gawn's miss in the third quarter was the one that really hurt - chance to go 3 goals up with a shot from 30m out on a slight angle. I said at the time that could come back to bite us. And here we are.

Some positives from the season: JVR, McVee, Rivers, Petracca, Viney, Sparrow, May

All enormously valuable seasons. 

2024 needs:

Find a key forward. Go back to the drawing board. It's as glaring a positional weakness as any team in the AFL... Jason Taylor, over to you. 

Find a skillful high IQ mid to finish off the work of Petracca, Clayton, Viney. A Josh Kelly, Wayne Milera type.

Get some fresh coaching eyes on this team. Someone offensively minded like Don Pyke would be perfect.

[YearOfTheDees 3,266]

9 hours ago, Melb16 said:

Can anyone give an example of another team in history that loses the way we do? Sure, you can lose the odd game due to poor kicking, but to dominate games and lose them so often isn’t something I’ve seen before.

We were set this year too. Fit, match hardened, on our home ground…and we crumbled under pressure.

I believe our game plan keeps other teams in the game. 

[Fromgotowoewodin 1,606]

2 minutes ago, YearOfTheDees said:

I believe our game plan keeps other teams in the game. 

100%. All year when we lose games we should win or scrape over the line against bottom 6 teams we’re told “this team is built for finals” or “the game plan is designed to win finals”, well something appears to have gone wrong cos we didn’t win any finals. 

[DeeSpencer 25,360]

8 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

The kick was poor but so unfair to blame the loss on Viney. 

Lever has the ball on half-back and can’t find a target. That’s on him and the rest for not making an option. 

The next contest had a bunch of 50/50 moments that could have gone either way but we still ended up with Viney who, yes, panicked and turned it over.

But despite Weitering playing on quickly, somehow we were outnumbered in our D50. In the 20 seconds it takes them to switch and go deep, the only player within cooee of Acres is Fritsch. The back half structure from the time of the Lever kick was appalling.

Lever should’ve got a 50m penalty, he was assaulted by Curnow not in the contest. Unfortunately the fix was well and truly in.

The slow long play was about the only option after that but Max was gassed and didn’t make the drop of the ball.

The painful thing is Viney didn’t straight out panic. If he did he’d have sent the ball 50m down the line. He actually took a pretty decent option and tried to punch a short kick along the boundary and unfortunately he got just the wrong amount of contact to get in to Weiterng’s arms. Any more or less contact with the ball and it’s perfect. 

[No10 458]

27 minutes ago, Dee Viney Intervention said:

I was on board with you until your last point. Schache was sub and an unused one at that…………that is team selection right there. Not to mention our bizarre choice of and use of subs throughout the season.

Oh no. I completely agree. The sub selection was bizarre. But it didn’t lose the game.

The team lacked composure. Goodwin is to blame for these finals losses. That was a mess and he needs to improve more than any player.

I’m not saying he can’t. But that coaching booklet talking point rubbish has to stop.

[Demonsone 2,029]

Tough review needed as 0-4 finals loses at our home ground! 
Understanding the injuries to our fwds runs deep  but The Grundy disaster needs explaining what went wrong? was it Gawn not willing to give up his ruck share? I’m not blaming Gawn a 6 x time AA a premiership captain but something isn’t right. Goodwin needs to own this sure players missed shots 16-28 over 2 finals is poor but player selection eg Sache played 2 games and did nothing yet was a sub but not used why???

Edited September 16, 2023 by Demonsone

[RyanD 290]

I don't think there has been another team in the last 30 years that loses so many games when they dominate the scoring shots or inside 50s. To me there are 3 variables that keep causing 'outlier' games and costing us premierships. 

1. Kicking inside 50

2. Efficiency inside 50

3. Kicking for goal

All top 4 teams are usually good at 2 out of the 3. We are bad are all 3. Therefore, when you have an extra 'variable' that can cost you a game, these 'outlier' games are more likely. 

You could argue our goal kicking at times has been ok, but it's usually against the poorer teams. It cost us last year and this year when it really matters, in finals.

Even if you take out our goal kicking and say its ok, we are still poor at 2 out of 3 categories. 

I love Petracca, but year after year he kicks so many floaters inside 50. There was a crucial one in the 4th, all he had to do was kick it over the top, but he floated the ball and genuinely cost us a goal. 

[Deesprate 1,324]

We aren’t good enough. You can look for excuses but four finals in a row says that. That said two things which just make it worse. Kossie self indulgent rubbish. If you can’t buy into the team so selfish. Umpires and 22 in particular make footy unwatchable. I include the arc in that losing that goal defies any commonsense. The AFL paid commentators just turn a blind eye to it make it even worse

[KLV 1,765]

23 minutes ago, YearOfTheDees said:

I believe our game plan keeps other teams in the game. 

No it doesn’t, poor kicking for goal keeps other teams in the game 

[John Demonic 5,702]

"I haven’t seen that many behinds since I visited a nude beach in Europe"

Saw this comment and thought it was a lovely humourous break from the anguish!

Edited September 16, 2023 by John Demonic

[420 4]

Commentary team was an out-and-out disgrace, I have never heard more one-sided commentary on a supposed neutral broadcast in my entire life

[praha 11,226]

Video from a Carlton support. Epitomises our entire structure and game plan. Players screaming for it in the corridor and our option is to just blaze forward. 

 

[Bonkers 994]

9 hours ago, Demonsone said:

Your too nice .. Goodwin needs to be held accountable or ever agreed to the Grundy deal! Our 2 most important games & he wasn’t used?? Whilst no contest in the ruck  4-5 times tonight???Yet Schache played 2 games for the season & wasnt used whilst T Mac did nothing! Yze will be gone who was a big part of our premiership strategy. The old Melbourne in me sees a cliff coming 

I don't know about being too nice. I've listed the shortcomings of how Goodwin and co went about building our list with Grundy and Schache. I don't see the point of having Schache on the list and don't understand giving him a contract if they won't play him. I've pointed out we were short with the amount of marking forwards on our list / available. Recruiting Grundy isn't just Goodwin's decision, this would have been a whole club strategy and something list management gave the ok. It's too simple to just blame Goodwin. If you want to hang Goodwin out to dry that's your call to make but I can see he has also done some good things with this list and we have done everything but make a prelim, there are reasons for that which I have outlined.

I think the fact is there are failings not just on Goodwin but within our footy department and in any professional organisation key staff need to be held accountable. Whilst I understand you may feel like the sky is falling we are still in a good position, we have dominated two preliminary finalists for large parts of the game but have not been successful in going for the kill and finishing them off. That is where the shortcomings in our list and game plan lay, but part of that is due to injury and bad luck, the other part bad execution by the players available. I am accepting of the fact we ran out of key tall forwards and the club did what they could with the cattle they had available. They'd lost faith in the Grundy experiment and also Schache. I don't see the point of either of them on the list and we need to make improvements in being more clinical, that's not being forgiving, I'm being a realist. The Grundy timing is probably a year or two out as Max isn't ready to give up the number 1 ruck mantle and fair enough, he is the superior player to Grundy. It's not the reason we lost last night.

[leave it to deever 17,506]

12 hours ago, Dannyz said:

Did Tmac have a touch in the last? He was beyond disgusting tonight.

Hope he does the right thing and retires. Bbb too.

Our goal kicking coach sucks.

The gawn Grundy idea was a joke. Max chokes in front of goal and Grundy never could mark.

Friita and melk disappeared last years finals.

This year it was Fritta and tmac.

No sub activated. Well played goody.

Umps were poor but our goal kicking was once again putrid. Been the same all season.

Jvr really let us down. 

Probable would be in a Pl if not for Maynard's horrible act.

Another shocking straight sets finals campaign.

Four in a row. Wow.

It will haunt us next year. 

Edited September 16, 2023 by leave it to deever