2 minutes ago, monoccular said:

To answer your question Goody - Genius or insane?

YES - POSSIBLY BOTH. 

Yes....

 

Genius’ are insane. 

Let's see how our one ruckman with a sore toe goes tonight.

15 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Let's see how our one ruckman with a sore toe goes tonight.

I’m predicting better than 90% of any other ruckman with fully functioning toes 

15 minutes ago, Clint Bizkit said:

Let's see how our one ruckman with a sore toe goes tonight.

Some would argue rucks aren't important.

But i think im with you Clint, i'd have liked to seen Grundy play. Truth is though he hasn't shown a lot this year to fill you much confidence.

I'm more concerned with the sanity of the board in extending a coaching contract PRIOR to the finals campaign......

2 hours ago, Hawny for Gawny said:

Come on now, we weren't great last year whether that be to fitness and lingering injuries, but this year we have been shafted with injuries in the position we are most thin, losing Melk, Petty, Frisch for time, and still finished in 4th, took the Pies to the end after losing a Grade A player. Goody has continued to provide results and given us a chance to win. Is it perfect? No but lets not act like he has had access to the full arsenal.

Finishing second and straights set outing is a bit of a waste to be honest, regardless of issues (lot of teams have them).

Like 2019, yes we had injuries but ... were we really that bad to finish second last?

2 minutes ago, Diamond Tim said:

I'm more concerned with the sanity of the board in extending a coaching contract PRIOR to the finals campaign......

Probably it made sense if we consider the harmony of the group, players love the coach. Why would you disrupt the peace inside the group?

7 minutes ago, Jaded No More said:

I’m predicting better than 90% of any other ruckman with fully functioning toes 

Well that prediction will no doubt  help our cause tonight. 

5 minutes ago, Cheap Seats said:

Some would argue rucks aren't important.

But i think im with you Clint, i'd have liked to seen Grundy play. Truth is though he hasn't shown a lot this year to fill you much confidence.

Au contraire... when Brodie Rucked we went quite ok. We wouldn't even be playing tonight had he not played as Ruck this season. 

Possibly the insanity was persisting a noble but flawed experiment.  Genius would have been to have Grundy Ruck tonight.  .. releasing Max across the HF ( not as a forward ) or float behind if required.

Possibly as they suggest insanity is persistence of one path expecting different results.

All im hoping for is a rabbit out of the hat.

In such case...Goody may join the magic circle ;) 

Go Dees

1 hour ago, McQueen said:

If he throws Spargo in the ruck I’m going with insane. 

Don't be silly, Spargopants will full back gorilla minder

I'm sure we'll cross the bridge if it happens, but if we go out in straight sets tonight, I'm predicting quite a few wholesale changes with our offence, potentially even a new forwards coach over the off-season.

I don't think anyone can stomach another year of problems with our forward half. 

Be interesting to see the amount of goals Carlton get from centre bounce clearance when T Mac or Smith (who's registered 1 hit out in his career) are relieving Gawn.

Not sure we want to be conceding such a ruck advantage against one of the best "goal from clearance" sides in the league.

 

35 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

I'm sure we'll cross the bridge if it happens, but if we go out in straight sets tonight, I'm predicting quite a few wholesale changes with our offence, potentially even a new forwards coach over the off-season.

I don't think anyone can stomach another year of problems with our forward half. 

I would hope that, even with a win and even with a flag our forward coaching / planning / set up would be under severe scrutiny.  
 

PS and will our footwear / podiatrics come under scrutiny too.  TMc Frit Petty all forwards with (probably) similar foot problems. 

Edited September 15, 20231 yr by monoccular

2 hours ago, rjay said:

Having a healthy list is key to winning big finals...

Don't kid yourself, we are really up against it tonight and if we pull through it will be a mighty effort.

Here we go someone always has to bring logic to the Goody argument.

Got it wrong with our conditioning and player rest last year 

Learned from it, it would appear based on the way we were coming towards the end of the home and away season but the Petty and Melksham injuries have hurt big time

We've selected TMac, Smith, and Fristch as our tall forwards. Yes Fritsch is more a medium forward. 

But Goodwin would have selected JVR, BBB or Melksham (also a medium) if available.

He wasn't about to select Jefferson to debut. Grundy isn't a forward as demonstrated time and time again. We wanted it to work but it hasnt. And Schache has demonstrated over his career that he is a finals type competitive animal.

So Goody's choice was to select the forwards that he has selected, or roll the dice on Turner forward or go back to Grundy ruck, Gawn forward (which is really robbing Peter to pay Paul).

 

Where the OPs question is relevant is "is our list too short?".

We have a number of very short forwards and mids.

Our KPPs aren't giants, often around 192cm not 195-197cm as other teams have.

Do we need to draft more for height?

(That isn't a Goody question)

 

27 minutes ago, monoccular said:

I would hope that, even with a win and even with a flag our forward coaching / planning / set up would be under severe scrutiny.  
 

PS and will our footwear / podiatrics come under scrutiny too.  TMc Frit Petty all forwards with (probably) similar foot problems. 

I'm not overly familiar with Tmac's injury, bit Fritch's was an impact injury (hard to do much to prevent) and Petty's was pretty much impact as well since how McKay landed on him. I think the injuries have just been unlucky. Same area of the ground and at the same time of the year. 

Great post. If we continue with the slow and high entries with this team then either Goody is insane or the playing group collectively have well below average footy IQ. 

44 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Be interesting to see the amount of goals Carlton get from centre bounce clearance when T Mac or Smith (who's registered 1 hit out in his career) are relieving Gawn.

Not sure we want to be conceding such a ruck advantage against one of the best "goal from clearance" sides in the league.

 

Goals from centre clearance is my biggest worry with Carlton. If we negate that to only 1 or 2 from the whole night then I think we'll win. 

52 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

Be interesting to see the amount of goals Carlton get from centre bounce clearance when T Mac or Smith (who's registered 1 hit out in his career) are relieving Gawn.

Not sure we want to be conceding such a ruck advantage against one of the best "goal from clearance" sides in the league.

 

Can't wait to see De Koning jumping a foot higher than whichever lamb is sacrificed for him to slaughter.

I'd suggest Tomlinson might be the least worst option if we think he can still jump.

Either way our midfield is going to have to be seriously switched on tonight.

“ The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results” – Albert Einstein

Bomb it long to the forward line guys.

4 hours ago, Deespicable said:

Simon Goodwin has always made a clear distinction between the roles of big and smalls.

Bigs fly for marks and are responsible for bringing the ball to ground.

Smalls  are there to crumb and tackle and link and never fly for marks (yes, Kossie does break the rules) unless they are the only option.

Even down back the distinction is clear - May, Lever and Tomlinson (when playing) are to deny opponents in the air, while Bowey, Salem, McVee are to protect the ground and provide the smarts when coming out of the backline. Rivers, being a swingman height, is allowed to fly on occasions. 

In 2021 when everything fell into place. the Dees played three bigs down back (May, Lever and Petty) and went with three bigs up forward (Brown, T-Mac and Jackson).

In 2021, Fritsch was the dangerous swingman and Sparrow’s tackling ability pipped Melky for the last spot in the 22, and it was balanced with three small forwards - ANB, Spargo and Kossie.

Since 2021, Goody has altered his preferred forward model, partly because both Ben Brown and T-Mac have often been injured and are now the wrong side of 30.

The result was that last year we often toyed with four genuine smalls. For example in our Rd 11 first loss of 2022 to Fremantle, Goody decided to try Toby Bedford with our three premiership smalls.

His desire to reward Bedford, one of the fittest blokes at the club, with game time meant that Toby often played as the medical sub and occasionally played from the outset. 

But this year Goody took his 'small world’ to another level. Kade Chandler, after four years of VFL learnings, was finally given a go and there’s no doubt that he’s a clever finisher and hard worker. Bailey Lawrie, another who had done his time in VFL, was given a go and he definitely has AFL level smarts.

Injuries to Petty, our most clever small tall Melksham, and suspension to our most mobile tall JVR has caused him to rejig even more.

The result? Tonight Melbourne is fielding the smallest finals side possibly since pre-war days.

But what about the Tigers of 2017 I hear you say when Riewoldt played as a lone hand and Grigg had to ruck when Nankervis had a rest.

The difference is that most of the Tigers small forwards had a degree of height.

Rioli is 179cm, Castagna 181cm, Lambert 178cm, Butler 182cm, Martin 187cm, Townsend 187cm, Caddy 186cm with Edwards 182cm sometimes up forward.

Compare that to:

Chandler 175cm, Pickett 171cm, Spargo 172cm, ANB 182cm, Petracca 187cm, Fritsch 188cm and Smith 191cm with Lawrie 179cm still a chance to be sub.

Or what about the Pies of 2010.

Blair 174cm, Davis 177cm, Didak 184cm, Beams 187cm backed by bigs Dawes, Cloke and Brown - hardly small by our standards.

Let’s go back further - Carlton's mosquito fleet of 1981 is generally regarded as the smallest of the modern era and yet was still slightly taller than our combination and that is 42 years ago? They had Marcou 178cm, Sheldon 178cm  and Wayne Johnston 180cm but they also had David McKay (191cm), Maclure (188cm), McConville (185cm) and Bosustow (185cm).  Rover Buckley 175cm had the occasional rest forward as well.

What we are seeing by Goodwin is revolutionary by any standards.

All our smalls are hard workers who don’t mind tackling even though their size makes it harder to stick them and individually they are all players who any side would want on their list, yet the question that every Demon fan should be asking is whether this is the right balance.

Some will try and argue that what option does Goodwin have given who’s out. But that view is tempered by the fact that a two-time All- Australian is sitting watching in the stands and is wanted by a host of clubs with Sydney apparently winning the battle. 

And it leads to two bigger questions:

If Melbourne wins tonight, is Goodwin tactically more savvy with the game trends than any other coach, placing a higher priority on ground-level wins than aerial strength?

Or if Melbourne loses tonight, is Goody in danger of becoming the new Bevo - the coach with the best list, yet the worst return.

Genius or insane? What’s your view?

 

Cannot answer that question (last paragraph) Deespicable, until the final score but I really enjoyed reading your summary and points of view. Great coverage, well done. d

18 minutes ago, leucopogon said:

Great post. If we continue with the slow and high entries with this team then either Goody is insane or the playing group collectively have well below average footy IQ. 

That is the mystery that confounds us all ...only opposition sides are happy for the answer not to be revealed. 

" Insane" is a cop out option..stubborn and unimaginatively inflexible  or genius is the more relevant question regards the coach. 

I think the footy IQ is pretty clear over a three year sample.

But you can't question their determination ...stubborn and inflexible though it may be@

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Let you know after the game.

Going out straight sets in finals two years in a row would be down right embarrassing. 

It isn’t ideal, but as @Hawny for Gawny said - we don’t have the full arsenal: we are an A grader down in midfield and our already threadbare forward line is just about on its ‘arris. 

1 hour ago, beelzebub said:

Au contraire... when Brodie Rucked we went quite ok. We wouldn't even be playing tonight had he not played as Ruck this season. 

Possibly the insanity was persisting a noble but flawed experiment.  Genius would have been to have Grundy Ruck tonight.  .. releasing Max across the HF ( not as a forward ) or float behind if required.

Possibly as they suggest insanity is persistence of one path expecting different results.

All im hoping for is a rabbit out of the hat.

In such case...Goody may join the magic circle ;) 

Go Dees

Leigh Matthews would disagree with you BB

But i personally did want to see Grundy come in and fairytale our problems.

One way or another Goody will either be a genuis or an outcast tonight.