On 23/07/2023 at 12:02, Older demon said:

McKercher, Duursma & Nate Caddy would be the ones I would try for with our picks. No 1 draft picks aren't always the goods.

Today was another example of our need to load up on HB defender midfielder type. Trent Rivers is one and really the only player we have that fits that category. He needs a partner in crime or two. Reid is not this player. 

You can then move Bowey further upfield or on the wing.

 

Not sure if that is Sanders or McKercher or someone else tbh

Straight up I'll admit I don't follow junior footy and don't claim expertise in this area.

However, I don't see the wisdom in trading three very good draft picks for one untested kid. ( Unless he has been shown to walk on water)

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:15, Bitter but optimistic said:

Straight up I'll admit I don't follow junior footy and don't claim expertise in this area.

However, I don't see the wisdom in trading three very good draft picks for one untested kid. ( Unless he has been shown to walk on water)

This is the thing. He does walk on water. Watch some of his highlights v any other player in this pool. I’d love to say we are going to get 3 guns that will equal him, but they arent there. It does sound insane, but how many would you trade for Oliver? Or Petracca? That’s what we are talking about. 

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:21, Dee-licious said:

This is the thing. He does walk on water. Watch some of his highlights v any other player in this pool. I’d love to say we are going to get 3 guns that will equal him, but they arent there. It does sound insane, but how many would you trade for Oliver? Or Petracca? That’s what we are talking about. 

Yeah ... well , in the past, we've had a couple of number one draft picks who couldn't exactly emulate that feat.

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:33, Bitter but optimistic said:

Yeah ... well , in the past, we've had a couple of number one draft picks who couldn't exactly emulate that feat.

Amen to that 

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:21, Dee-licious said:

This is the thing. He does walk on water. Watch some of his highlights v any other player in this pool. I’d love to say we are going to get 3 guns that will equal him, but they arent there. It does sound insane, but how many would you trade for Oliver? Or Petracca? That’s what we are talking about. 

Ultimately it is stocking up on what we need. Our game plan will soon be on show at the Smithsonian - we need better kickers and speed that will compliment our insiders 

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:35, Gawndy the Great said:

Ultimately it is stocking up on what we need. Our game plan will soon be on show at the Smithsonian - we need better kickers and speed that will compliment our insiders 

Dursma is this guy . Reid's highlight packages essentially consist of fend offs.    He's not racking up huge numbers like Ashcroft or Daicos did (tho I believe he's been asked to play up forward/different spots). He's a burst player from stoppages.  I reckon he'll be the type of player that will win you a GF but won't necessarily get you there.  So in some ways he's more suited to our list than a west coast or north I guess.

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:21, Dee-licious said:

He does walk on water. Watch some of his highlights v any other player in this pool.

He walks on water in the pool?

No doubt Harley Reid will be a very good AFL footballer. I just hope that we use our draft hand to balance our list better. We do not need another bull, yesterdays game just reinforced to me that we need some outside players to compliment our inside players. Two outside players with a bit of foot speed and elite foot skills will help sort out the connection issues we have with that last kick into the forward line. Yes Harley can play a bit outside as well but give me two picks over one. 

Harley Reid is no doubt a good U18 footballer but 3 first rounders is a bit rich for an untried player with potential to be a star of the competition but playing against U18 against opponents who have less strenght is different to playing against men like Petracca or Cripps or Wines or Viney or Bontempelli who know how to push/tackle younger players with the ball or put them under pressure when they have the ball effecting their disposal.

I hope we use our 4 picks under 40 well since it would se up a decade of success.

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:02, Older demon said:

McKercher, Duursma & Nate Caddy would be the ones I would try for with our picks. No 1 draft picks aren't always the goods.

Definitely McKercher and Duursma. Caddy has a bit of manchild about him, so not sure on his scope for progression like the other two. 

I would like to see 3 picks used over 1 Harley because our development system is elite. Harley will be a great player, somewhat regardless of where he goes, but 2-3 top picks going into our amazing development system will yield amazing results.

If we do have the option to trade for Gold Coasts first pick, I think I would rather take pick 4/5 and pick 6/7 to the draft and get two top 10 picks.

Could give us the chance to draft a Durrsma/Watson combo or something like that.

You would have to assume that the fact Duursma is playing games at Casey we must have some interest.

  On 24/07/2023 at 00:22, DistrACTION Jackson said:

If we do have the option to trade for Gold Coasts first pick, I think I would rather take pick 4/5 and pick 6/7 to the draft and get two top 10 picks.

Could give us the chance to draft a Durrsma/Watson combo or something like that.

You would have to assume that the fact Duursma is playing games at Casey we must have some interest.

I thought with underagers in the VFL they apply and then get assigned to a club so they’re spread across the league. Duursma is assigned to Casey, the same way Reid is assigned to Carlton and Clarry was assigned to Richmond etc. Wouldn’t read into Duursma playing for Casey. It does mean we get an easier look at him though.

I’m torn on what to do if we have the choice. Usually I’d just say take multiple players, but Reid is a serious talent and he’s very versatile too. He’s excelled as an inside midfielder dominating clearance. He’s also played at full forward when underdone returning from injury and went well enough there to be named full forward in the All Australian team this year. He’s also played half back in the VFL and did well taking intercept marks and rebounding off half back with his good explosive pace. He could wind up a mid like Petracca, a forward mid like Dusty, a forward like Toby Greene, a damaging half back like Jordan Dawson etc He’s got so much versatility and potential that he’s a unique prospect. He’d also be very marketable off field too. It’s a tantalizing thought him developing under Petracca, Viney and co. He could start as a forward or half back before moving into the guts when the senior players wind down.

I can’t decide if it’s worth selling the farm or not. Would love to have him at the Dees obviously though, and if Jason Taylor and recruiters think it’s worth doing then you’d trust them. JT has a great track record with midfielders (not as good with key position types).

It’s an interesting conundrum:  trade it all for Reid, or work to get 2 high picks?  I will leave my trust in the FD, knowing we will want to trade out our mid level picks to push the f/s pick for Brown into the weeds.  We either get Reid plus pup, or 4/6 plus pup.  Looks all good, and will depend upon list management.  We have to take at least 3, so who leaves, what comes in relating to personnel, picks, etc will tell the tale.  Think they will take a broader view of which the selection of Reid or 4/6 will be one part.  Thanks jacko and freo, turning pick 3 into pick 1 plus change!

  On 24/07/2023 at 00:06, MrFreeze said:

I would like to see 3 picks used over 1 Harley because our development system is elite.

This. Also throw in JT’s strike rate, 2 out of the 3 will probably more than make the grade.

We have our stars, we need depth between the arcs along with KPF’s. Hopefully we already have the tall forwards developing in JVR and MJ, need to invest in players that will replace the likes of JJ, ANB, Melksham and Hibbo.

You don't get many opportunities to add a potentially game breaking, goal kicking, inside-outside mid with power and explosiveness. The game is built around them - Danger, Dusty, Trac etc. - and this type of player is a pretty consistent factor in getting teams a flag. Certainly has been over the last 10 years. Yes - of course you need a team around them - but Richmond would not have won at least 2 of their 3 flags without Dusty. Potentially all 3. We (probably) don't win 21 without Trac. 

Happy to go on record that Harley would be worth it. He looks as good a prospect as I've seen in the last 5 years of watching draftees. It's the right time to add a player like him into our midfield. Viney approaching 30 and will be banged up as soon as he hits father time. Trac at his peak, Oliver a year behind. If Reid takes 3 years to get going, it will keep us at the top echelon, and that should be the aim with the current draft hand we have. 

In terms of alternatives, I have some significant doubts on Duursma at AFL level.

I have far more confidence in Watson making the grade, even at his diminutive height. He + Koz could be a small forward combination for the ages. 

Also like McKercher and think he could end up the best or 2nd best player from this draft.

What is clear to me is that this draft falls away below the top 5 or 6, so if we need to use our picks in the teens and/or our F1 to get Reid, or Watson and McKercher together (doubtful), I'll have no issue with it.  

Out of interest how has Reid fared in his games for Carlton reserves ?

Duursma had a few very good moments for Casey without starring against a lowly Coburg.

 

  On 24/07/2023 at 00:43, Lord Travis said:

Usually I’d just say take multiple players, but Reid is a serious talent and he’s very versatile too. He’s excelled as an inside midfielder dominating clearance. He’s also played at full forward when underdone returning from injury and went well enough there to be named full forward in the All Australian team this year. He’s also played half back in the VFL and did well taking intercept marks and rebounding off half back with his good explosive pace. He could wind up a mid like Petracca, a forward mid like Dusty, a forward like Toby Greene, a damaging half back like Jordan Dawson etc He’s got so much versatility and potential that he’s a unique prospect. He’d also be very marketable off field too. It’s a tantalizing thought him developing under Petracca, Viney and co. He could start as a forward or half back before moving into the guts when the senior players wind down.

This is one of the most appealing factors for me.  Reid has performed very well in all areas of the ground, he is not a midfield or bust type, you can start him in whichever zone is in need.  There's a lot of hype around his clearance and burst from stoppage, but his marking is incredibly strong too.  Some of his intercept marking last year was something else:

 

  On 24/07/2023 at 01:59, Diamond_Jim said:

Out of interest how has Reid fared in his games for Carlton reserves ?

Duursma had a few very good moments for Casey without starring against a lowly Coburg.

 

From recollection 13 touches (quiet first half before getting involved in the 2nd) in the first game and 21 disposals in a narrow loss where he was quite influential in the 3rd quarter, among the best players for the Blues.

 

Edited July 24, 20231 yr by ChaserJ

This is such a tough decision - I keep on going back and forth about whether we go all in on Harley or whether we draft 2 top 10 talents (or essentially take 3 first rounders). It's doing my head in....

 

And isn't that a beautiful thing!  

 

(particularly while we are also sitting in the top 4 heading into finals - and have either beaten or gone within a kick for everyone above us)

Reid

Watson

Mckercher

Curtain

Duursma

Sanders

Caddy

 

My preference is for Reid. But if we can somehow land 2 of the players underneath him then we are also laughing.

Depending on how we view the development of Adams and D Turner, I could see O'Sullivan being on the hitlist as well.

No doubt a bolter will come into first round calculations at some point. 

Looking at later picks.

Archer Reid is a watch for me. 203cm forward that could compliment our list well. Would need to see some consistent performances in the back end of the u18 year with gippy but finished the championships ok for VC.

If we want some more run out of the back half then Luamon Lual could be a good 2nd round option as well as Harry De Mattia.

Midfield depth could have George Stevens as an option. Big bodied mid, not overly quick sure, but is probably one of the best kicks in the draft which would be a nice point of difference for us in the middle.

Edited July 24, 20231 yr by Nascent

  On 24/07/2023 at 02:27, ChaserJ said:

From recollection 13 touches (quiet first half before getting involved in the 2nd) in the first game and 21 disposals in a narrow loss where he was quite influential in the 3rd quarter, among the best players for the Blues.

 

Even in the footage there you can see how aggressive and explosive he is. He makes really good quick decisions with and without the ball. He's well developed physically already and was taking down mature VFL bodies at will with bumps and tackles! He might not be a huge accumulator, but he'll be a quality player with the assets he has. Very exciting prospect. Jeez you'd love him in red and blue...

By comparison, Duursma didn't show anywhere near as much in VFL and I have more concerns about how he'll go at AFL level. He is less physically developed, but there's some other question marks for mine around competitiveness, best position, how his body will develop etc. Duursma hasn't shown much as a midfield type and plays more like an undersized marking forward.

If we don't go after Reid, Mckercher is the best prospect but not sure he'll be available at our pick 4-5...

  On 24/07/2023 at 03:47, Lord Travis said:

Even in the footage there you can see how aggressive and explosive he is. He makes really good quick decisions with and without the ball. He's well developed physically already and was taking down mature VFL bodies at will with bumps and tackles! He might not be a huge accumulator, but he'll be a quality player with the assets he has. Very exciting prospect. Jeez you'd love him in red and blue...

By comparison, Duursma didn't show anywhere near as much in VFL and I have more concerns about how he'll go at AFL level. He is less physically developed, but there's some other question marks for mine around competitiveness, best position, how his body will develop etc. Duursma hasn't shown much as a midfield type and plays more like an undersized marking forward.

If we don't go after Reid, Mckercher is the best prospect but not sure he'll be available at our pick 4-5...

Agree with some concerns around Duursma, hoping for a strong end to the season because the talent is there but consistency is lacking.

I think we shouldn't sleep on Watson. I'd have him in a heart beat and would make our forward half so much more dynamic.

  On 23/07/2023 at 12:05, RyanD said:

Don't take offence, but it's not even worth posting this. In what world would WC take that? Or another team not beat that. WC will be expecting 4 + 6 minimum. 

Was meant to have written next years first, not second.