Hawthorn is certainly tanking. Sam Mitchell's excuse for getting rid of Tom Mitchell was McKenzie and Day wouldn't play - what a crock? They deliberately got rid of Mitchell to lose games they didn't even get anything for him as their best player. This is a form of cheating to build a team around 4 or 5 number 1 draft picks. They should at the very least get the sanctions that Bailey and Connolly got for apparently tanking.

Fremantle are tanking this year too! Like our obvious 2019 tank which netted Jackson and Pickett, Freo are now doing the same with Luke and …….now……fml

Just now, McQueen said:

Fremantle are tanking this year too! Like our obvious 2019 tank which netted Jackson and Pickett, Freo are now doing the same with Luke and …….now……fml

Their top selections in the draft this year will be so valuable. 
 

 

 

 

 

 

 

oh

 

hang on….

 

wait

2 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

 Hawthorn is certainly tanking. Sam Mitchell's excuse for getting rid of Tom Mitchell was McKenzie and Day wouldn't play - what a crock? They deliberately got rid of Mitchell to lose games they didn't even get anything for him as their best player. This is a form of cheating to build a team around 4 or 5 number 1 draft picks. They should at the very least get the sanctions that Bailey and Connolly got for apparently tanking.

They are tanking. All we can hope for is that they ruin their culture and it gets rewarded with mediocrity for decades.

I hope their tanking is as successful as ours was.

 

I’d be very shocked if any club would be stupid enough to tank their season. 

Doggies tanking also....Ridiculous to think anyone is tanking 2 rounds in to the season. 

Take your meds!

6 minutes ago, Neil Crompton said:

I’d be very shocked if any club would be stupid enough to tank their season. 

It's such a long season, they'd be having to answer the same questions every week. The forgotten part of this is the members, you need to sell hope to them. Telling them that the season they've paid up for is effectively dead at Rd 2 would be a pretty rude shock to some when the game is their main passion in life. 

They made bold moves which may end up being the incorrect moves but tanking? Surely not. 

10 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Doggies tanking also....Ridiculous to think anyone is tanking 2 rounds in to the season. 

Take your meds!

There has never been more blatant tanking than what Hawthorn is currently doing. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand.

17 other teams are doing everything possible to win games and the other is dreaming of a brighter future with Harley Reid.

I hope the AFL gives them 11 Sunday twilight home games next year in response.

12 minutes ago, poita said:

There has never been more blatant tanking than what Hawthorn is currently doing. Anyone who thinks otherwise has their head in the sand.

17 other teams are doing everything possible to win games and the other is dreaming of a brighter future with Harley Reid.

I hope the AFL gives them 11 Sunday twilight home games next year in response.

Really?  At this stage of the season no way they are tanking. 

Results-wise you could say Doggies were tanking with a vastly superior list.   How about Freo? GWS?

If this thread was 20 rounds into season and the have lost every game up until that point by 10+ goals it has some merit....But until that time, this is actually one of the most ridic threads i seen on Demonland. 

Call me an Ostrich, they clearly have more sense than some of these humans!

Edited March 27, 20232 yr by NeveroddoreveN

For teams that are poor there is no reason to tank these days. 

When it was endemic 15 years ago, it was because the AFL was handing out priority picks.  Tanking provided an additional pick at the top end.

If you finish 18th today, you get one pick ( at No. 1), and your next pick (19) is one behind the Premier at 18. 

Other poorly performing sides have picks 2,3...etc so there is little difference in quality there.  Petracca or McCartin?

You cannot build a decent side around 1 good  player alone. 

Hawthorn aren't tanking, they are just bad.  North weren't tanking last year, they were just bad.  Look at the difference a decent coach ( Clarkson) & football manager ( Viney) have made to them.  Same as happened to us.

Just now, NeveroddoreveN said:

Really?  At this stage of the season no way they are tanking. 

Results-wise you could say Doggies were tanking with a vastly superior list.   How about Freo? GWS?

If this thread was 20 rounds into season and the have lost every game up until that point by 10+ goals it has some merit....But until that time, this is actually the most ridic thread i seen on Demonland.

Call me an Ostrich, the clearly have more sense than some of these humans!

They tanked before the season began by gutting their list for very little return.

What is the best pick that they got for Gunston, Mitchell, O’Meara, and Shiel? Maybe pick 27 this year from the Dogs.

Otherwise it’s picks on the 40s.

Some of you are so naive about what ‘tanking’ is. The Hawks did it 20 years ago and they are doing it again.

They've clearly cut the list and cut it far too deep and will struggle to stem the bleeding now.  I'm not sure why Sicily, Wingard & Impey etc would be keen on staying other than $$ in the short term.

It will take them 4-5 years to rebound for another shot if they nail their drafting and development.  That's a big risk to the remaining few senior players.

I doubt the clubs administration/coaching departments would be worried about losing whilst getting excited by high end picks.  Still, I'm not mentioning the T word yet as I agree that they desperately need to turn that list over as it really is in horrible shape.  Its almost arousing how horrible it's become.

If it's at the end of year and they throw an unco ruckman on the ball for a half, keep you're most dangerous forward on the bench for the second half of a close game or send your All-Australian backman up forward for the second half of a match after giving one of the best CHFs of our generation a bath for the first half and replacing him with a forward flanker who then copt a hiding then Yes, I'll mention the T word a lot more and be out for blood.

1 minute ago, george_on_the_outer said:

For teams that are poor there is no reason to tank these days. 

When it was endemic 15 years ago, it was because the AFL was handing out priority picks.  Tanking provided an additional pick at the top end.

If you finish 18th today, you get one pick ( at No. 1), and your next pick (19) is one behind the Premier at 18. 

Other poorly performing sides have picks 2,3...etc so there is little difference in quality there.  Petracca or McCartin?

You cannot build a decent side around 1 good  player alone. 

Hawthorn aren't tanking, they are just bad.  North weren't tanking last year, they were just bad.  Look at the difference a decent coach ( Clarkson) & football manager ( Viney) have made to them.  Same as happened to us.

A top 5 pick is gold and the number 1 pick is a prize worthy of ruining your culture if your egotistical pillock like Mitchell.

The problem with discussions on tanking is that there is no standard definition in the AFL community for what exactly ‘tanking’ is.

Each expert, commentator and fan seems to have their own definition meaning people can be right and wrong at the same time.

 

 

44 minutes ago, george_on_the_outer said:

For teams that are poor there is no reason to tank these days. 

When it was endemic 15 years ago, it was because the AFL was handing out priority picks.  Tanking provided an additional pick at the top end.

If you finish 18th today, you get one pick ( at No. 1), and your next pick (19) is one behind the Premier at 18. 

Other poorly performing sides have picks 2,3...etc so there is little difference in quality there.  Petracca or McCartin?

You cannot build a decent side around 1 good  player alone. 

Hawthorn aren't tanking, they are just bad.  North weren't tanking last year, they were just bad.  Look at the difference a decent coach ( Clarkson) & football manager ( Viney) have made to them.  Same as happened to us.

Good point George. There is the possibility that a club which fares badly can apply for special assistance which has been provided in recent years to Gold Coast and North Melbourne after they had a terrible season but given that Hawthorn was so adamantly against giving additional draft assistance to Melbourne after about three poor seasons a decade ago, they wouldn’t think of applying for themselves off one poor year. Would they?

1 minute ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Good point George. There is the possibility that a club which fares badly can apply for special assistance which has been provided in recent years to Gold Coast and North Melbourne after they had a terrible season but given that Hawthorn was so adamantly against giving additional draft assistance to Melbourne after about three poor seasons a decade ago, they wouldn’t think of applying for themselves off one poor year. Would they?

I believe this is assessed over a 2 year period.

Why we did not receive compensation after dropping to 17th in 2019.

I think a lot of people are being a bit harsh on Hawscum. I sincerely hope they pick up a few absolute gems in the next few years…… and then also hope that they choose to move onto other teams that have better prospects as soon as they can.

7 minutes ago, Whispering_Jack said:

Good point George. There is the possibility that a club which fares badly can apply for special assistance which has been provided in recent years to Gold Coast and North Melbourne after they had a terrible season but given that Hawthorn was so adamantly against giving additional draft assistance to Melbourne after about three poor seasons a decade ago, they wouldn’t think of applying for themselves off one poor year. Would they?

I have no problem with Hawthorn trading out players like O’Meara and Tom Mitchell that won't be around when they're in the window provided they don't apply for any special assistance. You reap what you sow etc. If those players were around they'd be better but still not great and still in the bottom 4. 

They're going to have short term pain for long term game, which I guess is a form of list management tanking but as @Deeko2 said that list was in dire straits. 

27 minutes ago, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

The problem with discussions on tanking is that there is no standard definition in the AFL community for what exactly ‘tanking’ is.

Each expert, commentator and fan seems to have their own definition meaning people can be right and wrong at the same time.

 

 

You mean like being Not Out and Out off the same ball?

Mitchell is an arrogant guy. he wants to build his own team. like Buckley who came in and ruined a young premiership team so it was ‘his’. However Mitchell is not stupid, he knows the difference between pick 1 and 3/4 is negligible. Cadman or Sheezel?

this is clearly not tanking. trading players out to do a hard rebuild is just that. imo he is doing this as he knows he will be coach for 2-3 years regardless, and can afford a wooden spoon year. then build from there. he wants to mold a bunch of kids and build a team from the ground up. 

there was no if about it; we tanked

hawthorn and the filth made it work for them, generating premierships out of the players they picked up as a result of doing so

technically you could argue we did too, cos without $cully there'd have been no hogan and thus no may...

44 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Mitchell is an arrogant guy. he wants to build his own team. like Buckley who came in and ruined a young premiership team so it was ‘his’. However Mitchell is not stupid, he knows the difference between pick 1 and 3/4 is negligible. Cadman or Sheezel?

this is clearly not tanking. trading players out to do a hard rebuild is just that. imo he is doing this as he knows he will be coach for 2-3 years regardless, and can afford a wooden spoon year. then build from there. he wants to mold a bunch of kids and build a team from the ground up. 

It's just another form of tanking, but yes he is an arrogant son of a ........

It's a very nuanced discussion, but for mine it's only tanking if it's wanting to lose in order to secure early draft picks (ie draft picks are the primary motivator for the decisions a club makes that weaken it short term).  If it's being ok with losing short term becuase you've made a decision to purge a list right back to attempt to fast track the development of young players while also getting some value for offloading older players (picks in the 40's are still better than the nothing they'll get later on) then it's not tanking.  It may or may not work in the long run, but it seems Hawthorn have decided the culture they want can still be driven by the older players that remain and the off field staff.  Unless a team gets lucky with father/sons, acadamy or go home factor players coming to their club, I don't know if there is an alternative to a savage list purge.  

I still don't believe we actually "tanked" in 2008 and 2009. We were just absolutely terrible and uncompetitive.

We really went through some dark times from 2007 until 2017 (and 2019). Leaving games at 3 Quarter Time became a regular occurrence for us as Melbourne supporters.

I remember how terrible 1997 was. Especially in the shadow of the failed merger attempt with Hawthorn in 1996. I remember the only positive was that at the end of the year we recruited Jeff White (almost snatched Peter Matera) and we got the number 1# draft pick in Travis Johnstone.

But the 1970s and early 1980s are either before my time or when I was far too young to remember.

I am assuming that from 1965 until 1986 it was just as horrible and bleak?

The only shining light being the mercurial and sublime Robbie Flower in the 1970s and 1980s.

Back in those days then you didn't even have a draft with top talent to choose from at the end of the year. It was all structured around a flawed zoning system. So therefore finishing on the bottom of the ladder with the 'Wooden Spoon' was the only prize you got besides being laughed at by opposition supporters. 

Ending our 57 year Premiership drought in 2021 was glorious though and it has definitely healed those deep psychological scars. Nevertheless, we should never forget those tough times and make sure we don't have to endure something so horrific ever again.

 

 

Edited March 28, 20232 yr by Supreme_Demon