On 20/02/2023 at 00:41, Orion said:

Sometimes things can be misinterpreted through text so maybe that's what's happened here.  If that is the case I apologise and will un-ignore QB.

Just wait until you get a private message from BBO (Bitter But Optimistic). It wont be angry but it could contain a dose of "think right" or other behavioral advice. I would be cautious about following such advice. He has good intentions (sometimes) however he has been known to delve into some murky ....... suggestions.

Welcome to the mad house.

  On 21/02/2023 at 06:32, Stu said:

Zero Hanger have done 50 predictions for the 2023 season - this article shows their top 10 predictions. I'd just scroll down to number one ;) 

50 fearless predictions for the 2023 AFL season: 10-1 - AFL News - Zero Hanger

to be fair theyve laid down all their money on the favourites. nothing too surprising there. 

  On 20/02/2023 at 06:58, Fanatique Demon said:

Aside from Petracca’s “broken leg” there were no obviously banged up players in my view. And Trac actually played well.

 

  On 21/02/2023 at 05:07, Bring-Back-Powell said:

'm glad someone here hasn't gone for the "banged up excuse" as to why we lost both our finals, although I do concede Gawn could barely get out of a jog in the Brisbane final.

There's another one and I'm sure we could find more.

Let me add Clarrie to the list with his thumb that was still giving trouble after Christmas in pre season.

Anyone care to add a few more....

There's more than one reason...banged up is one.

Anyone trying to find and/or reckon they have THE reason is kidding themselves.

  On 20/02/2023 at 06:58, Fanatique Demon said:

Over the weekend I watched our last two games against Brisbane last year.  Aside from Petracca’s “broken leg” there were no obviously banged up players in my view. And Trac actually played well. The difference between the drubbing we handed them and the disappointment of the final seemed to be lack of dare. When we were desperate in the last few minutes we kicked two quick goals. Of course Lever’s brain fade and Kosi’s ill-discipline (two down the field frees for late tackles and a 50m penalty) didn’t help us. But it seemed to me that in the final we were going through the motions, thinking the game was ours any time we wanted it. Then all of a sudden, reality dawned on us, but too late. That’s mind-set, not fitness or injuries. Bath water, anyone?

Was at the final and watched us closely in the warm up and knew we were in trouble.

Ben Brown, Lever, Trac, Gawn and Salem all looked lame. No doubt a touch of bathwater , but we were ripe for the picking. If we were not playing so hurt Brisbane would not have got near us.

  On 19/02/2023 at 23:48, Orion said:

Well the warped sense of humour has been added to the ignore list because it sounds pretty angry to me

I would have thought you like a good belt.

  On 21/02/2023 at 10:03, rjay said:

 

There's another one and I'm sure we could find more.

Let me add Clarrie to the list with his thumb that was still giving trouble after Christmas in pre season.

Anyone care to add a few more....

There's more than one reason...banged up is one.

Anyone trying to find and/or reckon they have THE reason is kidding themselves.

I listened to Kate roffey's agm speech earlier today.

She mentioned we had quite a few injured players, some of whom no one knew/knows about 

  On 21/02/2023 at 06:32, Stu said:

Zero Hanger have done 50 predictions for the 2023 season - this article shows their top 10 predictions. I'd just scroll down to number one ;) 

50 fearless predictions for the 2023 AFL season: 10-1 - AFL News - Zero Hanger

Cheers stuie.

There were 10 players at Victoria House the week before the Swans game. Max alone was there 3 times. MFC won’t use injuries as an excuse and we all know there were many contributing factors but don’t dismiss  the fact that we had a lot of players carrying stuff. 

  On 21/02/2023 at 07:22, Demonstone said:

I hope they're on the money with prediction #41.

And #23

Agree that we had injuries but you can't say we were the only team leading into finals with injury concerns. It is one factor but imo another factor is the desire, they just didn't seem to want it as much as 2021, could it have been the fact we won it the year before and the desperation to break the drought just wasn't there?

  On 21/02/2023 at 11:37, AzzKikA said:

Agree that we had injuries but you can't say we were the only team leading into finals with injury concerns. It is one factor but imo another factor is the desire, they just didn't seem to want it as much as 2021, could it have been the fact we won it the year before and the desperation to break the drought just wasn't there?

Injuries are both underplayed and overplayed. On one hand every team has injuries unspoken or otherwise but on the other many industry say that a healthy list is one of the most important components of having a decent chance to win the flag.

What we don’t know is how many of these players play A regular season game? Trac is probably the only that clearly misses. 

Funny thing is that in 2020 May plays the GF with 4-5 week hammy. 

  On 21/02/2023 at 12:11, Gawndy the Great said:

Injuries are both underplayed and overplayed. On one hand every team has injuries unspoken or otherwise but on the other many industry say that a healthy list is one of the most important components of having a decent chance to win the flag.

What we don’t know is how many of these players play A regular season game? Trac is probably the only that clearly misses. 

Funny thing is that in 2020 May plays the GF with 4-5 week hammy. 

Yep, I think I remember that was part of the general strategy from Burgess for players with niggles to just keep playing through them.

It worked for May in the granny.

However, when there's 10 or 11 (so the rumour goes) players carrying injuries and going into their shell once we're in front, we were always going to fall short.

We really didn't look fit enough to run out games.

Our disposal was sloppier towards the ends of games.

I think other teams worked us out a bit.

I think we may have been mentally fatigued and not ready to go to another level to win another flag last year.

I'm hoping we'll come back harder in all of these areas this year.

Must have been a virus.

Remember the old days (10 years ago) when the Demons bouncing back would be, how do we bounce back from second last on the ladder to maybe squeeze out 8-10 wins?  Now we need to bounce back from coming second on the ladder! 

times have changed! and who's loving it?!

  On 20/02/2023 at 01:51, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Sorry for the misunderstanding @Orion. I thought your observation about JVR was spot on. Love your work. Long may astute observations such as yours reign on 'Land. We need people like you as a counter-weight to people like me (and certain others - you know who you are 😍).

I thought it simply showed that Orio doesn’t understand sarcasm.

And clearly is a very poor judge of footballers. I watched most Casey games & JVR is an outstanding talent. His season was almost as good as Fritters before he was recruited. He well deserved his selections as an emergency last year.

  On 21/02/2023 at 11:37, AzzKikA said:

Agree that we had injuries but you can't say we were the only team leading into finals with injury concerns. It is one factor but imo another factor is the desire, they just didn't seem to want it as much as 2021, could it have been the fact we won it the year before and the desperation to break the drought just wasn't there?

While you can't control GETTING injured, you can control management of players and loading through the year. I would be shocked and disappointed if our fitness/injury management team didn't recognise some significant mistakes throughout the season. The most glaring was the decision to take Max over to Perth for the WC game. I get that you should always respect the opposition but there are times when management of players is absolutely critical, Geelong mastered it last season and now it's on the selection team to place faith in the squad to ensure players that are tired or playing through pain are given an opportunity to rest properly.

We need to get back to being fast finishers, not limping over the line. 

  On 21/02/2023 at 12:33, Brownie said:

Yep, I think I remember that was part of the general strategy from Burgess for players with niggles to just keep playing through them.

It worked for May in the granny.

However, when there's 10 or 11 (so the rumour goes) players carrying injuries and going into their shell once we're in front, we were always going to fall short.

We really didn't look fit enough to run out games.

Our disposal was sloppier towards the ends of games.

I think other teams worked us out a bit.

I think we may have been mentally fatigued and not ready to go to another level to win another flag last year.

I'm hoping we'll come back harder in all of these areas this year.

All excellent points Brownie.

At the risk of being captain obvious, I'd add that in addition to negatively impacting on match day performance, carrying injury would also have an impact on a players' capacity to build and/or maintain fitness levels (even if they continued to participate in full training ie not rehabbing).

Logic suggests there is a correlation between the length of time a player has carried something (and the specific injury) and the impact on fitness levels.

As an example, let's take Maxy and Lever.

Both appeared to be 'not quite right' from at least mid-season (probably all season for Lever).

Their performance was clearly impacted, but it is very likely so was their fitness.

No surprise then that they both looked totally gassed late in games at the back end of the season. 

Thats two of our best 22 not at optimal performance or fitness levels for nigh on half a season.

I think it is reasonable to assume there were quite a few more in a similar boat (eg Salo, BB).

And even more players again who picked up an injury that impacted fitness levels as the season progressed.

As you say, the suggestion is we 10 or 11 such players come final time. So almost half the team. No wonder we struggled. 

Bottom line, as you say, they struggled to run out games in the last fifth of the season. That was clear as day.

And if someone didn't believe their eyes, the scoreboard told the tale.

In our last five games, not once did we out score the opposition in the second half. 

Working back from the semi, the margin at HT and full time in our last five games were:

• Lions game: up by 22 points at HT, lost by 13 - a six goal swing
• Swans game: down by six points at HT, lost by 22 - - a three goal swing
• Lions game: up by 66 at HT, won by 58 - one goal swing
• Blues game: up by 8 points at HT, won by 5 points - 0.5 goal swing 
• Pies game: up by 17 points at HT, lost by 7 points - 4 goal swing

To be crystal clear I'm not saying fitness and injury were the only factors at play.

But in my opinion, fitness and injury were, by some margin, the biggest factors in our poor performance.  

Edited February 22, 20232 yr by binman

  On 21/02/2023 at 10:03, rjay said:

 

There's another one and I'm sure we could find more.

Let me add Clarrie to the list with his thumb that was still giving trouble after Christmas in pre season.

Anyone care to add a few more....

There's more than one reason...banged up is one.

Anyone trying to find and/or reckon they have THE reason is kidding themselves.

1. Because we didn't review the 2018 Preliminary Final

2. Because we don't have a home base

3. It's all Jack Watts' fault

  On 22/02/2023 at 04:40, binman said:

All excellent points Brownie.

At the risk of being captain obvious, I'd add that in addition to negatively impacting on match day performance, carrying injury would also have an impact on a players' capacity to build and/or maintain fitness levels (even if they continued to participate in full training ie not rehabbing).

Logic suggests there is a correlation between the length of time a player has carried something (and the specific injury) and the impact on fitness levels.

As an example, let's take Maxy and Lever.

Both appeared to be 'not quite right' from at least mid-season (probably all season for Lever).

Their performance was clearly impacted, but it is very likely so was their fitness.

No surprise then that they both looked totally gassed late in games at the back end of the season. 

Thats two of our best 22 not at optimal performance or fitness levels for nigh on half a season.

I think it is reasonable to assume there were quite a few more in a similar boat (eg Salo, BB).

And even more players again who picked up an injury that impacted fitness levels as the season progressed.

As you say, the suggestion is we 10 or 11 such players come final time. So almost half the team. No wonder we struggled. 

Bottom line, as you say, they struggled to run out games in the last fifth of the season. That was clear as day.

And if someone didn't believe their eyes, the scoreboard told the tale.

In our last five games, not once did we out score the opposition in the second half. 

Working back from the semi, the margin at HT and full time in our last five games were:

• Lions game: up by 22 points at HT, lost by 13 - a six goal swing
• Swans game: down by six points at HT, lost by 22 - - a three goal swing
• Lions game: up by 66 at HT, won by 58 - one goal swing
• Blues game: up by 8 points at HT, won by 5 points - 0.5 goal swing 
• Pies game: up by 17 points at HT, lost by 7 points - 4 goal swing

To be crystal clear I'm not saying fitness and injury were the only factors at play.

But in my opinion, fitness and injury were, by some margin, the biggest factors in our poor performance.  

Thanks Binman. I was at the last home and away against the Lions. While it was great, it proved to be an anomaly. The lions defence was woeful that night. Even Kozzy seemed to be proppy that night.

I couldn't work out during the season why we seemed to get more and more predictable kicking into the forward pocket. Was it a deliberate ploy because we knew we only had Fritta left as our sole fit Key forward.

I'm encouraged by the training reports and hope we're both fit and willing to take the game on and go the corridors and switch play.

 

I will be looking at stats around defensive pressure and how easily other teams take it out of our forward line.

It was an early indicator that we didn’t have it together last year where we slipped from the top 4 for forward pressure in 2021 to the bottom 4 in 2022.

And the way we entered the forward line into the near side pocket was designed to mitigate that problem as it was harder for the opposition to transition out of the populated area. 

Let’s hope we back ourselves more this year to kick to lead and kick fat side to space.

  On 21/02/2023 at 10:51, YesitwasaWin4theAges said:

Cheers stuie.

 

Edited February 22, 20232 yr by David-Demon

My unfortunate view on the difference between the Lions win in Round 23 and the finals loss.

Some generalisation about our 2022:

(1) We were awfully inaccurate in so many games that it cost us wins.

(2) We usually dominated first quarters and sometimes first halves, but too often gave little in second halves or couldn’t run out games.

This is exactly why we smashed Brisbane in Round 23 and lost the final.

- We were unusually deadset accurate in the first half of our Round 23 game, nailing even the most unlikely of goals. Interestingly, the scores after half time were fairly level. We were just so far ahead the game was over.

- We were typically inaccurate in the first quarter of the final. If we had have had the same accuracy as the Round 23 game, the game probably would have been over at 1/4 time.

So, in a nutshell, if we weren’t deadset (and unusually) accurate in the Round 23 game, our lead at 1/2 time wokld have been much slimmer, potentially opening a door for the Lions to think they were a chance, especially how average our second halves had been (and it was nothing special either in the Round 23 game).

Edited February 22, 20232 yr by Glorious Day

  On 22/02/2023 at 12:38, rpfc said:

I will be looking at stats around defensive pressure and how easily other teams take it out of our forward line.

It was an early indicator that we didn’t have it together last year where we slipped from the top 4 for forward pressure in 2021 to the bottom 4 in 2022.

Credit to you RPFC, you called the issue with forward defensive pressure early last season. I didn't think it was an indication of an issue, but you were proven right and i was proven wrong. 

  On 22/02/2023 at 23:54, binman said:

Credit to you RPFC, you called the issue with forward defensive pressure early last season. I didn't think it was an indication of an issue, but you were proven right and i was proven wrong. 

Am I in upside down world? Someone is actually admitting they were wrong on Demonland!? 🙃

  On 22/02/2023 at 23:54, binman said:

Credit to you RPFC, you called the issue with forward defensive pressure early last season. I didn't think it was an indication of an issue, but you were proven right and i was proven wrong. 

Ta, Binman. I seriously hated being right. I just can’t see us being so inert next season so I hope it is over. And I hope it was health related and the FD was fixing bandaids so to speak.

Edited February 23, 20232 yr by rpfc