On 21/09/2022 at 02:43, Mr Steve said:

AFL have stepped in now.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/847490/-incredibly-serious-afl-to-probe-hawks-treatment-of-indigenous-players

I hate that they refer to these allegations as 'historical'.

There is nothing historical about it. It happened not that long ago, and basically everyone involved at the club at the time is still heavily involved in the AFL. 

 

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:01, djr said:

Bolt will be pushing the George Pell defence and Rita will be shouting that its wokeism gone mad.

And wait for cancel culture to come out too. Left wing agendas etc etc.

Clarko and Fages have been cancelled.

I wonder how that'll intersect with the HS' Chief of Football's article. They'll probably call it "balance".

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by A F

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:59, Return to Glory said:

Somewhat laughable  that he headed up Beyond Blue BBO.

Also (and this may already have been said), how many actual football journalists are there that aren't completely compromised. Russell Jack appears to be the one of the only journalists with the balls to report anything not AFL approved.

 

That was a bloody joke right from the start RTG.  I remember at the time someone saying how appropriate the appointment was because his actions as Premier caused so much depression.

This is perhaps the most disturbing story I have ever read with regards to mistreatment of indigenous AFL players, and is, at the very least, equaled only by Essendon injecting unknown substances into their players. 

The ghosts of the Stolen Generation and decades of intergenerational trauma are hovering over this, and it is incredible to think that how far Australia has to go on these matters. Remember, the separation of individuals from their families 'for their own good' was one of the darkest periods in Australia's history, and I cannot but think about that when reading today's article. 

Unfortunately, as the AFL and associated parties move down the investigation track, the result is likely to be a transformation of these experiences into legal arguments and technicalities of blame/responsibility, rather than fundamentally addressing the experiences of these indigenous players and their families, and the meaning of this event for wider society. The focus needs to remain on these experiences, not the percentage of accuracy of claims, as what it is what these experiences mean to the victims that are most important, especially given the history of First Nations people in Australia. 

This is not a sad day for the AFL, as I have read on Twitter. The AFL must be better, and should have ensured these attitudes and behaviours hold no place within the institution a long time ago.
This has been a horrific and traumatic time for those victimised, and is a sad day for all First Nations people.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:59, Return to Glory said:

Somewhat laughable that he headed up Beyond Blue BBO.

 

I would probably leave that well alone. I have no time for Jeff Kennett, but am aware that there are a significant mental health issues within his broader family.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:44, layzie said:

I'd be getting on a plane pretty quick if I were him.

I would stay longer!

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:03, Jaded No More said:

I hate that they refer to these allegations as 'historical'.

There is nothing historical about it. It happened not that long ago, and basically everyone involved at the club at the time is still heavily involved in the AFL. 

 

It's historical because they, the AFL, were so bloody slow getting on top of it.

Essendrug might have lucked in with this one. Poor North if it was raining soup they would be standing there with a fork!

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by old dee

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:09, old dee said:

I would stay longer!

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:13, old dee said:

Essendrug might have lucked in with this one. Poor North if it was raining soup they would be standing there with a fork!

🔥🔥🔥

I can't help but feel for North.

Poor buggers thought they had a chance to right the ship and now they likely won't have a coach and all those who requested trades based on the coach may now lose interest.

We could end up with Brisbane, North (& Essendon) without coaches and very little time to get people in or re-start a process.

There are huge consequences to this report across the entire league. There would be a lot of very nervous people in the AFL today!

 

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by BW511

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:09, old dee said:

I would stay longer!

A tempting thought. However if I was a club president worth my salt who usually never has an issue speaking on myriad of issues not concerning me I'd be back in Aus pretty quick to face the music. You know, double standards and stuff. 

 BREAKING: In a statement, the Lions have confirmed the club and Chris Fagan have 'mutually agreed' he take a leave absence as he cooperates with the AFL investigation into the Hawthorn allegations.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:09, Stiff Arm said:

Surely they must have some sort of behavioural exit clause in their contract? Demonland lawyers on here know what are likely standard inclusions? 

I don't practice in sports law but have done a few sports sponsorship contracts...  My understanding is that contracts with players generally have 'notifiable conduct' clauses which provide processes for managing behaviour that brings clubs/the game/sponsors into disrepute (or is likely to do so) + eventually leads to termination of contracts / fines etc.  It wouldn't be surprising for similar clauses to be in the employment of coaches (indeed, a lot of employment contracts have behaviour clauses anyway). 

Depends on bargaining power a lot of the time between the parties as to how severe the contractual consequences may be.  Even if there is not an express clause dealing with it, it might be argued as a material breach of the employment contract depending on how the standards for provision of services and the like are drafted.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by DeelightfulPlay
Space between paragraphs

Brisbane official statement, Fagan stepped down pending investigation.

https://www.afl.com.au/news/847638/lions-coach-fagan-stands-down-after-hawks-racism-allegations

I don’t know about the rest of you, but after the initial shock and disgust, my head went to ‘how many other clubs have had this mindset and for how long?’

Devaluing indigenous people is not new, it’s widespread across institutions and how prevalent it is/was may dictate what penalties occur because maybe we would casting a great deal of people out into the ether…

Such a shame we are here still.

Hird got 12 months for conduct unbecoming.

… just something to think about.

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:27, rpfc said:

I don’t know about the rest of you, but after the initial shock and disgust, my head went to ‘how many other clubs have had this mindset and for how long?’

Devaluing indigenous people is not new, it’s widespread across institutions and how prevalent it is/was may dictate what penalties occur because maybe we would casting a great deal of people out into the ether…

Such a shame we are here still.

Same 'rp'...I wonder how our club has fared over the years.

Maybe having Jetta and Whelan, strong characters  has helped us but...who knows.

AFL HQ can drop their collectives heads in shame as well.

...as for the integrity unit. Please, give men a break...a lot of good they did Eddie Betts.

Gill's disgusting silence on Goodes & McGuire...the list goes on.

It now makes sense why rioli retired so young. 

Hill left that club to as did buddy. 

Gosh I hope we are clean at our club

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:39, CYB said:

But it’s slander if unable to be substantiated.

 

Slander by who? The ABC?

 

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:27, rpfc said:

I don’t know about the rest of you, but after the initial shock and disgust, my head went to ‘how many other clubs have had this mindset and for how long?’

Devaluing indigenous people is not new, it’s widespread across institutions and how prevalent it is/was may dictate what penalties occur because maybe we would casting a great deal of people out into the ether…

Such a shame we are here still.

Agree. This isn't a 'let's all laugh at Hawthorn' situation. This could set off a chain reaction and other clubs may not be clean. Either way the ramifications will be widespread across the league and there will be some a very hard look at what clubs need to be doing a lot better. It does make you wonder if this is actually the first time this has happened. 

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:15, Jaded No More said:

There is surely a mountain of evidence here. Why would Hawthorn themselves launch an investigation into their own culture if they didn't think anything was wrong? 

But did they expect to find this?

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:06, Cam Schwab's Whiteboard said:

This is perhaps the most disturbing story I have ever read with regards to mistreatment of indigenous AFL players, and is, at the very least, equaled only by Essendon injecting unknown substances into their players.

No. This is far more serious than the Essendon drug saga.

And furthermore, it shouldn't be politicised by relating the issue to "cancel culture".

If an investigation verifies these allegations then it's absolutely one of the worst scandals in the history of our game. 

I was fortunate enough to meet the then Pastor Doug Nicholls, one of our first Indigenous footballers when I was at school in the early 60s and he told us of his experiences when he first came to play at Carlton and was treated as sub human. We should accept no excuses for that conduct even if it happened in the late 1920s but today, it borders on criminal. Anyone connected with this has no place in the game.

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:42, Jaded No More said:

Do you really think that anyone, let alone reputable journalists at a reputable publication, would release this stuff without any proof?

And do you really think Hawthorn would launch an investigation into past behaviours themselves, if they didn't suspect bad behaviour? You don't burn your own house down for no reason. 

Yes. The proof is as far as I know circumstantial.

Don’t get me wrong - if they are guilty, then they deserve the full weight of what’s coming to them. But equally, if they are not or it is not undeniable in proof, then it is slander and has caused irreparable damage to arguably the best coach in AFL history. 

  On 21/09/2022 at 02:48, DeeSpencer said:

 

I’m a little skeptical of some of the details. It might well have been that some players used the club as a defence for their desire to break up. Then found themselves delisted and went back to their old relationships and put the blame on the club. I know that’s pretty cynical but don’t tell me it’s implausible.

 

Only you could write such a Paragraph…

Unbelievable

  On 21/09/2022 at 03:34, binman said:

Slander by who? The ABC?

 

Whom ever was being interviewed.