I'm all in on Petty being our new KPF in 2023 - probably at the expense of BBB 

If JVR has a very big summer and gets super fit and puts on more size there is no reason why he doesn't get AFL games next season

With the addition of these two I think our forward structure would be way more potent both in terms of competing in the air but also at ground level - both have also shown that when given a look they are very capable at set shot conversion 

Begs the question who replaces Petty in the backs

Problem is Petty is our tallest defender so we don't have an automatic replacement that can easily take the big gorillas or resting rucks of opposition teams

Options

Turner - I rate him highly and he is an AFL tall back in waiting - 2023 could be the year he cements a starting position. But probably needs to muscle up more - probably doesn't have the height to replace Petty's role

TMac - yep he could go back and provide a solution to help cover Petty's move forward. But is he physically able to be the player he once was - big risk IMO

Weid - seems to have found a role as a mobile ruck - personally don't think his ruck work is that great and he is particularly vulnerable near opposition goals where he gets out bodied far too easily. He also can't hold marks in general play. Some have suggested trialing him as a KPD - it could be worth a try as he has the height and is reasonably mobile - I remain skeptical due to lack of aggression but who knows

Tommo - I don't think he plays tall enough and lacks mobility so its difficult to find a suitable matchup on a regular basis - like him as a footballer and you know he is going to give 100% but I just don't think he's a KPD

J Smith - not the height of Petty but with his leap he is probably best suited to defending the oppositions tallest forward if Petty went forward. His biggest issue as we all know is injuries - he just can't stay on the park

Corey Ellison - Casey tall that IMO has shown enough to be given some consideration as a rookie listed player - not sure of his height (193cm ?) but is a late developer that could really grow in statue quickly in an AFL system   

New recruit - yes I know we all think we need another tall forward but if Petty goes forward as I believe he should we may actually be better looking for a tall back - arguably easier to find than a tall KPF 

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

I'm all in on Petty being our new KPF in 2023 - probably at the expense of BBB 

If JVR has a very big summer and gets super fit and puts on more size there is no reason why he doesn't get AFL games next season

With the addition of these two I think our forward structure would be way more potent both in terms of competing in the air but also at ground level - both have also shown that when given a look they are very capable at set shot conversion 

JVR will be in the mix next seaaon but you can't expect him to have a major impact all season, not consistently anyway.  That probably won't happen (if its going to happen) for two to three pre-seasons afterwards.  Unless of course he turns in to an absolute super star within his first season or two (unlikely).

Macca is out for at least 6 months and will he even return at all or get back to anywhere near his 2021 form from there?  Hope so but again can't be certain here.

So IMO BB probably needs to go around once more.  At least early in the season,  and look to support him with JVR,  possibly Macca if he gets back OR one of your options below.

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

Begs the question who replaces Petty in the backs

Problem is Petty is our tallest defender so we don't have an automatic replacement that can easily take the big gorillas or resting rucks of opposition teams

Options

Turner - I rate him highly and he is an AFL tall back in waiting - 2023 could be the year he cements a starting position. But probably needs to muscle up more - probably doesn't have the height to replace Petty's role

Turner will slot in beautifully at some point.  However, assuming we don't get Grundy (Lucifer pls make sure of it!!) Max will need some back up but doesn't need to be more than about 20% of the time IMV.  Turner isn't the answer here obviously as he won't be assisting in any ruck duties.

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

TMac - yep he could go back and provide a solution to help cover Petty's move forward. But is he physically able to be the player he once was - big risk IMO

No for various reasons including too valuable as a KF and/or in a HHF role.

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

Weid - seems to have found a role as a mobile ruck - personally don't think his ruck work is that great and he is particularly vulnerable near opposition goals where he gets out bodied far too easily. He also can't hold marks in general play. Some have suggested trialing him as a KPD - it could be worth a try as he has the height and is reasonably mobile - I remain skeptical due to lack of aggression but who knows

This is your man.  As per McCartin this season, Weid is the ideal candidate to swing into Petty's role.  Doesn't like too much contact in a contest?  Can spoil from behind or just coming in from the side peeling off opponents for the assist etc.  Can take a grab.  Same height as Petty plus 2kg.  Turning circle of the Titanic...again defence is the solution here.  Can ruck and not just ruck.  He can hold his own.  And that's all Maxy / Mid Field needs for approx 20% of time.  Maxy takes the Weid (ex Petty role) as a resting (intercept) backman which he has done on prior occasions with a fair amount of success mind you.

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

Tommo - I don't think he plays tall enough and lacks mobility so its difficult to find a suitable matchup on a regular basis - like him as a footballer and you know he is going to give 100% but I just don't think he's a KPD

Tomo is apparantly exploring alternatives and appears to have lost half a yard and any leaping ability he might have had prior to the knee injury last season.  Can't offer any ruck relief option.

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

J Smith - not the height of Petty but with his leap he is probably best suited to defending the oppositions tallest forward if Petty went forward. His biggest issue as we all know is injuries - he just can't stay on the park

Also can't see him offering ruck relief

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

Corey Ellison - Casey tall that IMO has shown enough to be given some consideration as a rookie listed player - not sure of his height (193cm ?) but is a late developer that could really grow in statue quickly in an AFL system

Very solid defender, even better as a medium forward IMV.  Too short.  Can't see him in the ruck.

  On 20/09/2022 at 01:42, Sydee said:

New recruit - yes I know we all think we need another tall forward but if Petty goes forward as I believe he should we may actually be better looking for a tall back - arguably easier to find than a tall KPF 

This is a possibility but would still like to see a relief ruck option here.

If we want Petty forward in 2023 and i believe we should see this from here, then the Weid is your man.

Yes most of my opinions are biased due to my "DO NOT GET GRUNDY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" outlook.  But there it is!

Edited September 20, 20222 yr by Demon Dynasty

I'm both for and against playing Petty forward in 2023.

Pros are that he a great grab, reader of the play, really attacks the ball, has presence and is a decent kick at goal.

The big con for me is that I think he's our best imeediate and long term backup for Steven May.  As much as our attack was defficient in the back half of 2022 in particular, defense is critical and the consistency and stability we achieved down there in 2021 was one of the keys to achieving premierhip success.  Play around with Petty forward and we may upset our defense too much and become uncompetitive in that area of the ground.

That said, part of me does wounder if we could have taken control of some the games we lost in the second half if either May or Petty were allowed to pinch hit forward for some time earlier in the game and get some more reward for our efforts.

Would also like to see more Joel Smith forward in 2023 (assuming he can remain fit).  I feel his football immaturity / somewhat lack of footy smarts may be too much of a liability down back, but his pace, marking abilities and reasonable goal kicking could make him a satisfactory second key forward.

If we're looking at flags in the next two years, the fact Petty is our succession plan for May is irrelevant because May is playing great footy. Petty can always be switched back to defence when that times comes if it were necessary. 

Getting a look at the upside of Petty up forward makes complete sense. Strong mark (not a two-grabber like most of our forwards), strong presence and can kick the footy. Makes complete sense to me. There's no doubt our staff are workshopping it 

This has got 'let's send our best forward fritch to the backline for most of the year' written all over it. How about instead of taking Grundy we chase ahh, I don't know, a forward ? And leave him where he belongs. Owning the backline. 

JVR needs to be given time to develop as the 3rd tall. Problem is Fritta plays that role. So either JVR has to take the defensive jobs ala Melksham style or we gamble on him as 2nd tall and not expect much for 2 years. 

I’m not sold on Petty as a forward. I think he is a future AA CHB. 

  On 20/09/2022 at 11:25, Grouse said:

This has got 'let's send our best forward fritch to the backline for most of the year' written all over it. How about instead of taking Grundy we chase ahh, I don't know, a forward ? And leave him where he belongs. Owning the backline. 

Or sending a great young key defender to the forward line where he becomes the greatest goalkicker in the club's history (Neitz).

Edited September 20, 20222 yr by Dr. Gonzo

My team

B: Lever, May, Bowey

HB: Brayshaw, Turner, Salem

C: Langdon, Petracca, Jordon

HF: Neal-Bullen, Petty, Pickett

F: Fritsch, van Rooyen, Gawn

FOLL: Grundy, Oliver, Viney

IC: Harmes, Sparrow, Chandler, J.Smith

Sub: Spargo

I'm jumping on the Petty bandwagon especially if T.Mac has more problems with his foot. I'd love to see Disco get more time down back.

 

Edited September 20, 20222 yr by WERRIDEE

I’d be excited by it, if only that it shows we are taking our forward half issues seriously.

I also don’t think the last 5 minutes of the Brisbane loss are an accident. May played a bit of footy forward early days - but when the game needed to be won Goodwin put Petty forward.

If we can Play BBB sporadically i think we can still get some good games out of him. He was swamped in 2022 once TMac was down. I would definitely give Petty some time forward. He takes Marks regularly 

BBB I don’t think can play 22 games, but 10-12 could still be effective and damaging 

  On 20/09/2022 at 09:55, Demon Dynasty said:

JVR will be in the mix next seaaon but you can't expect him to have a major impact all season, not consistently anyway.  That probably won't happen (if its going to happen) for two to three pre-seasons afterwards.  Unless of course he turns in to an absolute super star within his first season or two (unlikely).

Macca is out for at least 6 months and will he even return at all or get back to anywhere near his 2021 form from there?  Hope so but again can't be certain here.

So IMO BB probably needs to go around once more.  At least early in the season,  and look to support him with JVR,  possibly Macca if he gets back OR one of your options below.

Turner will slot in beautifully at some point.  However, assuming we don't get Grundy (Lucifer pls make sure of it!!) Max will need some back up but doesn't need to be more than about 20% of the time IMV.  Turner isn't the answer here obviously as he won't be assisting in any ruck duties.

No for various reasons including too valuable as a KF and/or in a HHF role.

This is your man.  As per McCartin this season, Weid is the ideal candidate to swing into Petty's role.  Doesn't like too much contact in a contest?  Can spoil from behind or just coming in from the side peeling off opponents for the assist etc.  Can take a grab.  Same height as Petty plus 2kg.  Turning circle of the Titanic...again defence is the solution here.  Can ruck and not just ruck.  He can hold his own.  And that's all Maxy / Mid Field needs for approx 20% of time.  Maxy takes the Weid (ex Petty role) as a resting (intercept) backman which he has done on prior occasions with a fair amount of success mind you.

Tomo is apparantly exploring alternatives and appears to have lost half a yard and any leaping ability he might have had prior to the knee injury last season.  Can't offer any ruck relief option.

Also can't see him offering ruck relief

Very solid defender, even better as a medium forward IMV.  Too short.  Can't see him in the ruck.

This is a possibility but would still like to see a relief ruck option here.

If we want Petty forward in 2023 and i believe we should see this from here, then the Weid is your man.

Yes most of my opinions are biased due to my "DO NOT GET GRUNDY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" outlook.  But there it is!

Thanks DD - I wasn't suggesting any of the "options" were for ruck duties only a KPD role

  On 20/09/2022 at 12:12, Dr. Gonzo said:

Or sending a great young key defender to the forward line where he becomes the greatest goalkicker in the club's history (Neitz).

That will never happen again. 

  On 20/09/2022 at 22:28, JimmyGadson said:

That will never happen again. 

Let's give it a try !! You are a Goody clone no risk or adventure!! 

  On 20/09/2022 at 09:55, Demon Dynasty said:

JVR will be in the mix next seaaon but you can't expect him to have a major impact all season, not consistently anyway.  That probably won't happen (if its going to happen) for two to three pre-seasons afterwards.  Unless of course he turns in to an absolute super star within his first season or two (unlikely).

Macca is out for at least 6 months and will he even return at all or get back to anywhere near his 2021 form from there?  Hope so but again can't be certain here.

So IMO BB probably needs to go around once more.  At least early in the season,  and look to support him with JVR,  possibly Macca if he gets back OR one of your options below.

Turner will slot in beautifully at some point.  However, assuming we don't get Grundy (Lucifer pls make sure of it!!) Max will need some back up but doesn't need to be more than about 20% of the time IMV.  Turner isn't the answer here obviously as he won't be assisting in any ruck duties.

No for various reasons including too valuable as a KF and/or in a HHF role.

This is your man.  As per McCartin this season, Weid is the ideal candidate to swing into Petty's role.  Doesn't like too much contact in a contest?  Can spoil from behind or just coming in from the side peeling off opponents for the assist etc.  Can take a grab.  Same height as Petty plus 2kg.  Turning circle of the Titanic...again defence is the solution here.  Can ruck and not just ruck.  He can hold his own.  And that's all Maxy / Mid Field needs for approx 20% of time.  Maxy takes the Weid (ex Petty role) as a resting (intercept) backman which he has done on prior occasions with a fair amount of success mind you.

Tomo is apparantly exploring alternatives and appears to have lost half a yard and any leaping ability he might have had prior to the knee injury last season.  Can't offer any ruck relief option.

Also can't see him offering ruck relief

Very solid defender, even better as a medium forward IMV.  Too short.  Can't see him in the ruck.

This is a possibility but would still like to see a relief ruck option here.

If we want Petty forward in 2023 and i believe we should see this from here, then the Weid is your man.

Yes most of my opinions are biased due to my "DO NOT GET GRUNDY UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES" outlook.  But there it is!

The time for this was round 20- finals 2022. If we didn’t play Petty as a permanent forward when we had a misfiring forwardline, TMac injured, BBB sore and out of form, JVR too young, Weideman learning a new role and Tomlinson, Turner and Smith all capable of playing back we’re not doing it next year.

It was a great solution so we could compete short term, that Goodwin was too stubborn for, but long term Petty will be one of the great backs of the modern era and we have time to find some forwardline solutions. As it stands next year we will have TMac, BBB, JVR (bigger and fitter with the confidence of a great VFL season), Weideman, Gawn/Grundy, Fritsch. Then we could bring in Colbert and draft another tall forward, that’s more than enough tall forward options. We need to work on our system and connection or none of those 8 options will work.

If we lose Tomlinson then our KPD cover is thin, Smith is injury prone, Turner young, if we send Weid back we have no guarantees he’ll be capable. Even if the club wants Petty forward one injury to May or Lever and he’s straight back. 

We're all deseparate for a contesting key forward. Why else would we be considering moving a great back forward permenantly based on 5 minutes of football 😛

I am keen for this to be trialled early in the year. Petty showed a lot of potential as a forward in 2019 and he has improved a lot as an AFL footballer since then. While we might be impacting our backline, Smith and Turner have both shown enough to indicate that we could adequately manage, particularly given we have May and Lever already there. I also think Petty plays the easiest position on the ground at the moment.

Petty could go back if we decided it wasn't working (or there were better options in the forward line) and he would find it easy to adjust.

I just think this is an experiment we should try next year before the last 5 minutes of the season.

  On 20/09/2022 at 11:25, Grouse said:

This has got 'let's send our best forward fritch to the backline for most of the year' written all over it. How about instead of taking Grundy we chase ahh, I don't know, a forward ? And leave him where he belongs. Owning the backline. 

ahhh - which ones area available ? Please copy us on the list of those that are 

1. available and keen to join the MFC 

2. capable of having a meaningful impact say average of 2 to 3 goals per game

I'm on record as saying Petty is our best KPD but unless we find a KPF who can compete in the air and on the ground I don't think we are going to improve next year

As far as finding our new KPF in the draft currently we don't have a single first round pick and I suspect we wont get a top 10 pick from the Jackson deal - in any event if we did draft a KPF they generally take years to actually have a impact on a consistent basis 

  On 20/09/2022 at 22:15, Sydee said:

Thanks DD - I wasn't suggesting any of the "options" were for ruck duties only a KPD role

Yes that's just my take as the Weideman option avoids the need for an immediate back up ruckman aka Grundy.

We will be better served investing the $$ and spot on the list elsewhere IMV.

Still being in a premiership window we're in dire need of a DANGEROUS key tall forward over Grundy as well as some speed, run and class (finish / delivery inside 50) coming off HB and out of the middle.

We presently have a big fat ZERO class finisher and mover in the mid field who can hit up targets on a regular basis in an elite sense and kick the odd goal or two on a semi-regular basis.

The poor connection/delivery, lack of run/speed on the ball and lack of class through mid field/off HB has already cost us a PF and potentially a 2nd shot at silverware this season.

We have to go all out and ALL IN as best we can to inject a fair amount of the above if we're to get back to a PF in the next year or two IMV and take advantage of the major assets still on the  list.

  On 21/09/2022 at 00:27, deejammin' said:

The time for this was round 20- finals 2022. If we didn’t play Petty as a permanent forward when we had a misfiring forwardline, TMac injured, BBB sore and out of form, JVR too young, Weideman learning a new role and Tomlinson, Turner and Smith all capable of playing back we’re not doing it next year.

It was a great solution so we could compete short term, that Goodwin was too stubborn for, but long term Petty will be one of the great backs of the modern era and we have time to find some forwardline solutions. As it stands next year we will have TMac, BBB, JVR (bigger and fitter with the confidence of a great VFL season), Weideman, Gawn/Grundy, Fritsch. Then we could bring in Colbert and draft another tall forward, that’s more than enough tall forward options. We need to work on our system and connection or none of those 8 options will work.

If we lose Tomlinson then our KPD cover is thin, Smith is injury prone, Turner young, if we send Weid back we have no guarantees he’ll be capable. Even if the club wants Petty forward one injury to May or Lever and he’s straight back. 

The issue / problem with our list and the reason we missed a PF opportunity doesn't lie with our defence aside from a classy running HB who is elite by foot IMO DJ.

You can shuffle Weideman into Petty's role.  Or even Turner once he finds his feet.

We need solutions up forward and in the short term (unless we hit something phenomenal in the trade period) Petty is a must trial option for early next season IMV.

The existing tall alternatives (aside from Macca but may not make it back) have been trialled and pretty much fallen flat.

Run with roughly the same (KTF) set up next season and we'll get roughly the same result, or potentially worse, as more teams go past us in development and additions to their lists.

JVR obviously adds something new but he's more a medium / tall vs a tall forward (at this point... might get there with time if he continues to sprout).

If you remember prior to this season pretty much 99 out of 100 footy pundits and scribes had written McCartin's career off.  Longmire had imagination and vision.  He's now playing a key role in that team in defence and about to play off on the last day in Sept.

No reason why we can't at least TRY/TRIAL same with Weideman.  And it's a potential duel winner IF Petty works out to be a decent forward.

Edited September 21, 20222 yr by Demon Dynasty

A lot depends on Tom McDonald, JVR and Turner.

If the first 2 are ready to go then I doubt we move Petty, we'll have faith in Tom and Jacob.

If Turner doesn't have a good summer then I doubt we'd risk it either, can't drastically weaken the backline just in hope.

Here's an idea:

What if we don't want to move Petty at the start of the year and instead we throw Turner forward? No idea what his forward craft is like but he seems willing and he looks a decent tackler.

If the plan is less about finding top quality forwards and more about just needing fresh talent who can do the dirty work then he might not be too bad.

  On 20/09/2022 at 12:07, CYB said:

JVR needs to be given time to develop as the 3rd tall. Problem is Fritta plays that role. So either JVR has to take the defensive jobs ala Melksham style or we gamble on him as 2nd tall and not expect much for 2 years. 

I’m not sold on Petty as a forward. I think he is a future AA CHB. 

JVR is more than a 3rd tall. First or 2nd. 

  On 21/09/2022 at 09:08, 1964_2 said:

JVR is more than a 3rd tall. First or 2nd. 

Yep but he needs to develop. 3rd tall is for dev purposes. Ultimately, yes 1st or 2nd tall. 

  On 21/09/2022 at 08:27, Demon Dynasty said:

The issue / problem with our list and the reason we missed a PF opportunity doesn't lie with our defence aside from a classy running HB who is elite by foot IMO DJ.

You can shuffle Weideman into Petty's role.  Or even Turner once he finds his feet.

We need solutions up forward and in the short term (unless we hit something phenomenal in the trade period) Petty is a must trial option for early next season IMV.

The existing tall alternatives (aside from Macca but may not make it back) have been trialled and pretty much fallen flat.

Run with roughly the same (KTF) set up next season and we'll get roughly the same result, or potentially worse, as more teams go past us in development and additions to their lists.

JVR obviously adds something new but he's more a medium / tall vs a tall forward (at this point... might get there with time if he continues to sprout).

If you remember prior to this season pretty much 99 out of 100 footy pundits and scribes had written McCartin's career off.  Longmire had imagination and vision.  He's now playing a key role in that team in defence and about to play off on the last day in Sept.

No reason why we can't at least TRY/TRIAL same with Weideman.  And it's a potential duel winner IF Petty works out to be a decent forward.

I agree with you that Petty would be good to trial up forward, but I still believe the time to do it was last season, JVR will be our number two tall forward, he’s 194cms and growing and already fairly built for a 19 year old with another pre-season he’ll be a lock next season. Gawn/Grundy resting ruckman, Weideman takes either Grundy or Gawn’s resting forward/ruck role if they get injured. Petty is brilliant down back and I’d say we’ll trial McDonald in the number one KPF role if fit, a traded player or Ben Brown with a good preseason before we move him forward. The other wild card is if May gets injured Petty simply must play back, particularly if Tommo leaves. Interesting times ahead and if the club decided Petty/JVR/Gawn/Grundy is our tall forward setup next year I’d be up for it. But I’d be worried about our defense, while Petty was up forward in the EF McStay beat Lever one on one to win the game, that’s the risk.

Pickett Brown JVR

Petracca Petty/TMac Fritsch

I could see this forward line kicking a few goals.

 

 

  On 21/09/2022 at 10:18, Jibroni said:

Pickett Brown JVR

Petracca Petty/TMac Fritsch

I could see this forward line kicking a few goals.

 

 

We'd concede 600 a game too I reckon