POSTGAME: Rd 21 vs Collingwood

[david_neitz_is_my_dad 4,083]

To me that’s probably our worst loss over the past 2 seasons. Given the state of the game at half time to lose that is a big blow.

For one it was against a team equal to us on the ladder in the top 4 late in the season. We have now potentially have given them a massive confidence boost to run out the season and they now well and truely have the mocha on us. 
 

This might be worse if Collingwood lose their next 2

Edited August 5, 2022 by david_neitz_is_my_dad

[Kent 2,905]

1 hour ago, BDA said:

My illusions were well and truly shattered last night. I was sure we were going to swarm and overrun the pies. The exact opposite happened

Coughed up another big lead. Is there a worse habit to get into?

Fittest levels are just not there. Not sure what’s happened but burgess has been a huge loss

Our defensive woes start in our forward 50. Where has the tackling pressure gone? Brown halved a number of contests but there was nobody at the base of the pack to crumb or within meters of the rebounding pies. If we don’t lock the ball in the pies rebound so quickly we can’t get set

And I can only describe our continual kicking of the ball into the pocket to the 3 on 1 Brown out number as braindead. If the idea is to prevent turnover it was pointless because our smalls were no where close enough to crumb the loose ball or tackle the pies defenders anyways. Rotten coaching as far as I’m concerned.

And I know people will scoff but I don’t think we are as mentally up for it and sharp as we were last year. There was one team showing maniacal intent last night and it wasn’t us

A lot not working this close to finals. The coaches and players need to lock themselves in a room and have a forthright conversation. We can turn this around but some home truths need to be delivered. Too many players not playing their role

Thoroughly disgusted with that loss. And those f**kin pies supporters. After the early Cox goal they started with the USA chant. Vomit inducing stuff. And had to suffer the Collinwood chant on the train home. I'll have to go for a long run today to work this rage out of my system.

Already been for my long run  after lying awake thinking of the Krap we dished up in the last half

Didnt work for me  Good luck BDA

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

32 minutes ago, Clintosaurus said:

I knew there was another but could not think of who. Was it in front of goal?

Forward 50

[Razor 289]

6 hours ago, chook fowler said:

The filth are mentally stronger than us and I am as mad as hell. We should have had them put away by half time but bad kicking kept them in it. Max should not have missed those easy set shots and Melksham didn’t make the most of his opportunities. Too many players play a good quarter and then disappear. Hope they are having a good hard look at themselves because tonight was unacceptable.

Why didn’t Petracca take his shot in the last quarter?  Directly in front 50m out?  That was the moment to stand up.

[Macca 16,902]

7 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

Our games are the opposite of last year now. After half time we get figured out, teams adjust and take us on through the middle with pace. 

Our Achilles heel are teams that transition from their backline quickly, are highly skilled, use the corridor and are able to make the switch of play whilst keeping possession of the ball

That was Collingwood last night but the other teams have picked up on it as well (we've lost 6 of our last 10)

So from rubbish forward entries along with non competing forwards the above occurs (time and time again)

Ultimately, that puts our backline under seige.  So we often do the first bit well (midfield strength and dominance) but then it can all fall apart once we go forward

We need better forwards

[Fork 'em 6,983]

1 minute ago, Razor said:

Why didn’t Petracca take his shot in the last quarter?  Directly in front 50m out?  That was the moment to stand up.

Confidence shot to sheet.

[Fork 'em 6,983]

8 minutes ago, Macca said:

 We need better forwards

Richmond win the flag then pick up Lynch.
Geelong win the flag then pick up Dangerfield and later Cameron.

Us ... The St.Kilda disguard who's running around in the 2s.
What's his name again?

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Fork 'em

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

19 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

One of the things that frustrates me is our list management hasn’t favoured forwards. We’ve spent big coin on a backline, spent 10 years developing a midfield, but our forward line has always felt like an afterthought.

We’ve been lucky Fritsch came on, because without him we don’t have a competitive forward line. I’m so confused about Ben Brown. He’s playing a game style that has never been his strength.

We move the ball into our forward line in order to have the best field position to defend. That’s a good strategy if we can keep opposition to a low score. 2 of the last 3 games we’ve got into shoot outs. That tells me our game style is being exposed, and we are being out coached.

Our games are the opposite of last year now. After half time we get figured out, teams adjust and take us on through the middle with pace. 

The reason is because we are not halving the contests in our forward line. We either get outmarked (Moore and Howe last night) or the ball cones to ground and the oppo small defenders are rebounding it out. Our plan is to create forward 50 stoppages and it's not happening. Quick transition from our forward line makes it harder to zone further upfield and our defenders get caught one-on-one and made accountable. Both our F50 entries and our small forwards/mids are letting us down.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,129]

22 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

The numbers suggest very similar inside 50 conversion result from us as last week against Freo.

The Pies just turned it on forward of center and their transition out of the goal square and off HB is very quick & slick. 

They sometimes also switch just back of the wing which you don't see many teams do very often.  Gives them diff angles of attack and time for the ball carrier to find a leading target.

They have two of the most accurate set shots for goal who work hard to get their marks on the lead in Elliot & Mihocek.

We also can't make the goals or kick one from downtown (around the paint) which allows oppo backman to set up slightly deeper and crowd our forward line as they don't see us as much of a threat higher up.

Rivers (not that he's a forward so not expecting him to), Fritsch, Melk, Maxy, Tracc & BB all had shots from around 50 last night and none were succeasful!

Sparrow nailed one though

[Bates Mate 4,464]

12 minutes ago, The heart beats true said:

I’ve been saying the same thing about Collingwood all year, but after the first 6 minutes of the 3rd quarter, where we did all the attacking and couldn’t score, they completely out played us.

Last night reminded me of 2017-18. We had so many games in that era where we won every stat except the score line. We simply have to turn Jackson’s trade into a ready made contested marking forward.

We aren’t getting any return for effort forward of the ball and it’s demoralising and exhausting for the players.

Nailed it. I had flashbacks to 2017-18 as well. 

[Macca 16,902]

Just now, Fork 'em said:

Richmond win the flag then pick up Lynch.
Geelong win the flag then pick up Dangerfield and later Cameron.

Us ... Nudda.

And we've become the hunted in our own forward line.  Opposition teams know that we lack quality forwards and then take advantage

What we can do this year is place some other types up forward.  I'd start with Petracca (70/30 forward/mid) and we need another marking option just to keep the opposition honest (Van Rooyen)

3 smalls & Melksham isn't working ... not enough goals, not enough possessions and almost zero defensive pressure

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

19 minutes ago, Older demon said:

Yes, we had enough of the ball and didn't convert but in my opinion, the issue is deeper than that.

Since TMac went down we have been shown that we lack marking targets up forward. Our goal to goal line and key forwards are lacking. Weird hasn't risen to the occasion, JVR is in his first season and who else is capable of playing a key forward role? We have been forced to rotate Max, Jacko and Brown as the key marking target. Max missed some sitters and Jackson has absolutely no impact up forward. Similarly, we lack ruck backup as there is no one at Casey who is a backup ruckman (Weid will get the gig). This is not fixable this season

Much has been said about the long kick to the goal square and its lack of success. That is due in part because the ball isn't coming to ground for the smalls to pounce, it ends up as an intercept mark to the opposition. If Max is down there he contests as does Brown but Jackson is playing like the 3rd year tall which he is and not only isn't marking he is getting out-marked. Opposition intercept marks end up transitioning deep into opposition forward lines.

Weeks out from finals TMac will try and play at Casey in the last round, but will we blood JVR (I doubt it) will Tomlinson or Joel Smith play up forward or will we persist and run the risk of god teams doing what the Bulldogs and Pies did? The forward marking options are pretty thin

Petty wasn't exactly scintillating down back last night & we had our best defensive set up for the season in place from last week.  Time for a stint forward?

[IRW 1,386]

18 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

The cupboards are pretty bare.
 

Maybe but when we were winning but playing half a game well and half crepe..we might have tried  a few options to see if there was a surprise packet with attitude stepping up.

It couldn't have hurt...remember that we were  "unbeatable" at that time .

No I don't know who..

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by IRW

[homsar 431]

There are some issues. But let’s be honest. This run from Collingwood is something for the record books. Every risk they took paid off. 3 goals from questionable free kicks. Kicking incredibly accurately. No one beats a team as good as them, with that much going right for them. It’s a game of inches sometimes, and their high risk, high reward style paid off against our low risk style. I think our game is more sustainable long term but let’s see. 
 

I think we play them again week one of finals. Or maybe Sydney. I would love to play them again next week… I reckon the players feel the same way. A lot can happen in the next 6-7 weeks. We are a bee’s dick away from our ideal form. We are one of 4 teams that can win it imo. 

[IRW 1,386]

Maybe there is a plan B  ..have a high paced shootout!

[dees189227 12,367]

It's funny when Elliot would line up for goal you just knew he wouldn't miss, but when our players lined up you were just hoping we'd kick them and never felt confident.

Looking at the paper I saw Oliver had 42 possessions. Could barely remember any that was out to good use.

The one positive was that ginnivan got nowhere near it

[Melb16 491]

Understand the narrative of us not taking our chances in the first half. But for me it’s more about them being on 50 at half time.

They kicked more goals when we had the game on our terms (8) than when they had it on their terms (7). Which is baffling for a team that base their game on defence.

[chook fowler 19,444]

32 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

The cupboards are pretty bare.
 

Can’t see why - Casey are undefeated 

[Fat Tony 5,217]

I think we win that game 95% of the time. The Pies kicked 15.4 with 2 rushed.

In saying that, our last quarters are a concern. We just cannot seem to transition the ball with any flow when we get into space.

I also thought we defended poorly inside 50.

I feel we need to play Jackson inside 50 more often and use him as a target. Brown is not marking it enough for the chances he gets and we are playing with 17 on the field when the ball isn't kicked to his advantage.

[chook fowler 19,444]

16 minutes ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Petty wasn't exactly scintillating down back last night & we had our best defensive set up for the season in place from last week.  Time for a stint forward?

Petty played his worst ever game.

[Tony Tea 2,806]

11 hours ago, Tony Tea said:

Soft. Can't handle the heat.

Remember the rule: nothing you say on match day matters.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,721]

I’m more accepting of that loss than the Queens Birthday loss.

Back in round 13 I considered Collingwood a flash in the pan side that fluked a 4 game winning streak and had the wood on us a bit. However I was sure we’d get one back on them later in the season.

Last night, I think we just got beaten by a better side who are right in the thick of this year’s premiership. If you don’t think they’re better than us, go and firstly check the wins column on the ladder and then go and look at the recent record between Collingwood and Melbourne since round 23 2017.

Sure their percentage is mediocre but I was alway taught that wins count more than percentage.

I also think we as supporters make too many excuses against Collingwood.

QBday- oh Petty, Turner and Gawn spent time off the ground

Last night - Oh the umpires crucified us, they were too accurate etc…

If Pickett and Gawn nailed their regulation goals then  we would’ve won and no excuses would be required.

 

Edited August 6, 2022 by Bring-Back-Powell

[kev martin 9,664]

I have confidence when it is a centre bounce. We can score or control the opposition.

In the second half last night, I felt uncomfortable when we had the ball in general play.

When we have a kick-in, we are happy to get a stoppage near the wing, the same seems to be when slinging off the half-back area. (Worried a turn over is coming). I feel it then becomes a 50/50 proposition at the created stoppage. 

Our angles, lack of switches,  and inability to find space are telling.

The contested game stats look big when we constantly put the ball into packs.

Missing outside run, good decision makers and getting any overlap.

[Deemania since 56 6,606]

11 hours ago, Deecisive said:

What i would like to see is our forwards actually work together when someone is kicking the ball into the forward 50 we have 3 or 4 players who can mark who all should be leading in different directions instead of all standing still.

That is going to provide the options that our forward line has neglected for so long; it is imperative that options and space positionings - that would include a chasing/following but emptying opposition defender or two - are pursued for the better benefit of the team. 

[640MD 3,352]

Bugger.  Just my take,

no intercept marks from out better players down back. I also cannot remember Hibberd or Hunt doing anything notable.. also thought Rivers looked startled at times. 
max down forward is a waste and he needed to kick those goals early.  And I think Collingwood got quick goals from the kickins. I could be wrong n

and how come someone did not start limping in the last quarter to allow a fresh set of legs in Harmes on the field 

need to play smarter not that much better.

maybe Joel smith and Bowey into the mix.   
couple of easy games coming up. Then the very pointy end of the season

go Dees