Farewell Toby Bedford

[Bay Riffin 1,454]

18 minutes ago, deanox said:

Geelong had:

5 players play every game, 

4 miss one game, 

3 miss two games,

3 miss three games.

 

Melbourne had

4 play every game

5 miss one game

5 miss two games

1 miss three games

 

Very similar across our top 15 players.

 

Dangerfield is 32, just one of how many old guys in that team? (I have double checked how many played, but I think they 13 over 30, 10 over 31 and 6 over 32 on the list?).

We had Hibberd, Melksham, Gawn and May above 30. The two "smalls" were rested across the year.

 

You can go find the chart on Fox footy, or look it up on AFL tables yourself.

But the stats I've given indicated that it doesn't matter whether it's the top 5, 10 or 15 players, the way we handled the year in terms of games played was pretty similar.

Demons had 11 players carrying significant injuries into that last final. Geelong we well reasted and looked super fit. 

[BAMF 4,107]

44 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

Maybe we wouldn't have kept patience with Guthrie, but I don't  buy that we needed Filipovic. We had Gawn, Spencer and a break in case of necessary 3rd ruck in Pedersen on the list, plus Mitch King as a developing prospect.

I disagree. I think a developing ruck is needed on a list. It's just a shame that Filipovic, King, King and Bradke turned out to be nothing. Now we have had to resort to bringing in Majak Daw for 1.8 years and being in the unfortunate position we are now where we have one 30 year old ruckman on the list.

Happy to simply disagree on this one.

44 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

We're up to 5 years of Oskar Baker, who was 19 when drafted, on the list with very little return. 

And on the matter if you don't want to accept Stengle which I get, then go with Gryan Miers over Oskar Baker in the same draft. Gryan's played 80 at the Cats, he would've got at least 40. 30+ in 19/20 and 10+ this year even if our 2021 guys are better.

We picked up Spargo, Fritsch, Petty and Baker that year. The first 3 were exceptional. Baker has been disappointing but provided better list balance. Miers as another forward didn't make sense at the time. I'm not sure he would have even got that many games on our list during that time.

44 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

At the end of the day I'm not expecting us to draft and develop late picks as well as the Cats. Wells is a master of finding talent. And they get inside knowledge to local players - Henry, Miers and Atkins 3 of them. Plus they've had a heap of late picks due to having so few early ones and that allows them to churn through them. 

This is a big part of it. The Cats list was in a totally different shape to ours during this time. The cats had no end to mature bodies and depth. They lacked young talent and top end picks. They had no options but to churn through the later picks. We haven't gone through all the players drafted during that period but I'm sure you have had a look and know that there were a hell of a lot of players the cats picked that didnt make it.

We had the young talent. We lacked the depth and mature bodies. Hence we took punts on the more mature players like Marty Hore, Tim Smith, Mitch Brown and Harley Bennell. These picks were always more likely to get 10 - 15 games instead of 0 like many of the cats.

44 minutes ago, DeeSpencer said:

My issue is we're at 0 late picks developed and there's absolutely been room to get guys some games if they were good enough. Goodwin isn't coaching for his job like a young coach in a rebuild desperate to play the top 10 picks, he can pick who he chooses and he just hasn't been compelled to choose anyone. The only non early pick that he chooses somewhat consistently is Joel Smith!

It might also be a resources thing. JT and co probably focus on the early picks. We might need to change out personnel or invest more in the depth of our recruiting department.

This is the crux of where we disagree (not that we really disagree that much).

I don't think its a big deal that we haven't developed any late picks. We have nailed the trades. We have nailed the first round. We have nailed the second round. This has been our MO for years. We nail these 3 points and then use late picks for project players or backup depth.

Even with the gift of hindsight we can only really agree that the difference in choices between Jason Taylor and Stephen Wells in late picks is Jack Henry over Dion Johnstone/Filipovic and Brad Close over Harley Bennell (yeah Atkins, but even that is debatable).

It's hardly worth bringing up in every thread.

Now we have the mature bodies. Now we have some decent depth coming through. Maybe JT will focus on youth with those picks?

[DeeSpencer 24,689]

45 minutes ago, djr said:

You didn't name any of the Geelong players who were selected in the National Draft. All but Stengle were selected as rookies. You once again fault Taylor for missing all of his picks in the ND after round 2. Over the previous ten years, Wells (Geelong) has had 24 ND selections after R2, but just 7 have gone on to play more than one game. Over that period, we've only had 14 picks, with 8 of them playing senior football. See how you go just using only ND picks. Only 2 would be considered in our team, Kolodjashnij and Menegola. 

My point is 3rd rounders and later, there’s no point splitting between just 3rd rounders and excluding rookies. Either way, Miers and Kolo plus 5 rookies I named above  = 7 in their flag side. More when you add Blicavs, Bews and O’Connor.

We had Harmes and he’s the only one still on the list who’s played regular footy now Hunt is gone.

I don’t know why this is confrontational. Late picks are all low success dice rolls but we keep striking out.

[Demonsterative 3,016]

Just now, Bay Riffin said:

Demons had 11 players carrying significant injuries into that last final. Geelong we well reasted and looked super fit. 

Yep, the Cats were sick in the prelim last year. We all bagged their squealing about it this year. Time to move on and shut down our squealing. They were the best team in 2022. Time to up our game. We are good enough if we do! 

[deanox 9,641]

29 minutes ago, Bay Riffin said:

Demons had 11 players carrying significant injuries into that last final. Geelong we well reasted and looked super fit. 

Yeah that's not in dispute.

But it's got nothing to do with the suggestion that Geelong rested players more than us and therefore played their developing players more, so they won't leave (which is why it's in the Bedford thread).

[DeeSpencer 24,689]

5 minutes ago, deanox said:

Yeah that's not in dispute.

But it's got nothing to do with the suggestion that Geelong rested players more than us and therefore played their developing players more, so they won't leave (which is why it's in the Bedford thread).

Franky Evans and probably Esava are both on their way out. I don’t think a couple of extra games would’ve kept Toby. Opportunity is one thing, cash is the other and GWS should be offering more of both.

I think we should’ve rested our injured players because they were injured. And one of the reasons we didn’t was our coaches lacked faith in them. Now we’ve lost 2 of our better ones it’s a worry. 

 

[drysdale demon 4,687]

47 minutes ago, Demonsterative said:

Yep, the Cats were sick in the prelim last year. We all bagged their squealing about it this year. Time to move on and shut down our squealing. They were the best team in 2022. Time to up our game. We are good enough if we do! 

Yeah, They were sick the three times we played them last year.

[Demonsterative 3,016]

3 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Yeah, They were sick the three times we played them last year.

We were injured and banged up twice they beat us this year Move on. 

[drysdale demon 4,687]

15 minutes ago, Demonsterative said:

We were injured and banged up twice they beat us this year Move on. 

We only played them once, the makers of the draw made sure they didn't have to play the best sides twice.

[Demonsterative 3,016]

1 minute ago, drysdale demon said:

We only played them once, the makers of the draw made sure they didn't have to play the best sides twice.

Still, move on!!!

[rpfc 28,046]

There are two arguments in this ‘Toby Bedford is off’ thread about Geelong so I’m gonna pass.

…

We were banged up, and comparing role players is pointless.

Ok, now I’m gone.

[drysdale demon 4,687]

11 minutes ago, Demonsterative said:

Still, move on!!!

Run Forest Run

[Demonsterative 3,016]

1 minute ago, drysdale demon said:

Run Forest Run

Life is like a box of chocolates! Touché 

[Demon Dynasty 17,091]

9 hours ago, Diamond_Jim said:

We have at least three players in the VFL vying for Bedford's role the main two being Chandler and Moniz Wakefield. You can throw in Laurie and Woewodin into the mix as well.

While Bedford is the most advanced of the group all are capable at VFL level

Early days for Moniz & Woe but IMHO Bedford showed the most promise out of the three remainders.  He was also the quickest player on the list IMV.

So we are now down two speedsters for 2023 and i reckon that's one of the areas we appeared to suffer from in 2022 (not in a major way but sure felt it was one of the issues).

Might need to invest in some of these...

[IRW 1,377]

2 hours ago, drysdale demon said:

Yeah, They were sick the three times we played them last year.

I don't recall the squeeling...except on here

[DubDee 24,328]

Good luck Toby

[layzie 32,786]

2 hours ago, Demonsterative said:

Life is like a box of chocolates! Touché 

He's gonna need it.

[Demon Head 265]

Geebus - the way we’re going, the only player at the club left whose fast will be Oskar Baker 

[Diamond_Jim 12,351]

1 hour ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Early days for Moniz & Woe but IMHO Bedford showed the most promise out of the three remainders.  He was also the quickest player on the list IMV.

So we are now down two speedsters for 2023 and i reckon that's one of the areas we appeared to suffer from in 2022 (not in a major way but sure felt it was one of the issues).

Might need to invest in some of these...

Speedsters.....Take a breath Bedford was NQR at VFLand AFL level

Will the rest be any better.. who knows

TBH I doubt it but...................good luck to them all

[poita 3,874]

I'm no fan of Bedford, and wish him well at GWS, but I find it really concerning that we now have three players who have been offered contracts for 2023 and have then asked to be traded. 

Presumably that is opportunity for Bedford, money and certainty for Hunt and family for Jackson, but at least two of those we should have been able to manage. 

It's great that we have been able to sign Petracca and Oliver on long term contracts, but overall our list and player management has been so so at best. And now we are starting to see the consequences of this.

[layzie 32,786]

I'm not comfortable with the idea of two of our more pacey players walking out the door. I know speed isn't everything but it can't hurt having it. 

[Queanbeyan Demon 6,705]

13 minutes ago, poita said:

I'm no fan of Bedford, and wish him well at GWS, but I find it really concerning that we now have three players who have been offered contracts for 2023 and have then asked to be traded. 

Presumably that is opportunity for Bedford, money and certainty for Hunt and family for Jackson, but at least two of those we should have been able to manage. 

It's great that we have been able to sign Petracca and Oliver on long term contracts, but overall our list and player management has been so so at best. And now we are starting to see the consequences of this.

Pretty close to the most absurd comment of the year.  

[dazzledavey36 52,728]

13 hours ago, BAMF said:

I disagree. I think a developing ruck is needed on a list. It's just a shame that Filipovic, King, King and Bradke turned out to be nothing. Now we have had to resort to bringing in Majak Daw for 1.8 years and being in the unfortunate position we are now where we have one 30 year old ruckman on the list.

Happy to simply disagree on this one.

We picked up Spargo, Fritsch, Petty and Baker that year. The first 3 were exceptional. Baker has been disappointing but provided better list balance. Miers as another forward didn't make sense at the time. I'm not sure he would have even got that many games on our list during that time.

This is a big part of it. The Cats list was in a totally different shape to ours during this time. The cats had no end to mature bodies and depth. They lacked young talent and top end picks. They had no options but to churn through the later picks. We haven't gone through all the players drafted during that period but I'm sure you have had a look and know that there were a hell of a lot of players the cats picked that didnt make it.

We had the young talent. We lacked the depth and mature bodies. Hence we took punts on the more mature players like Marty Hore, Tim Smith, Mitch Brown and Harley Bennell. These picks were always more likely to get 10 - 15 games instead of 0 like many of the cats.

This is the crux of where we disagree (not that we really disagree that much).

I don't think its a big deal that we haven't developed any late picks. We have nailed the trades. We have nailed the first round. We have nailed the second round. This has been our MO for years. We nail these 3 points and then use late picks for project players or backup depth.

Even with the gift of hindsight we can only really agree that the difference in choices between Jason Taylor and Stephen Wells in late picks is Jack Henry over Dion Johnstone/Filipovic and Brad Close over Harley Bennell (yeah Atkins, but even that is debatable).

It's hardly worth bringing up in every thread.

Now we have the mature bodies. Now we have some decent depth coming through. Maybe JT will focus on youth with those picks?

There's a theme here with our history of rucks with the players you've named

All these players have been skinny raw ruckman based more on athletic potential over footballing ability. 

This strategy has simply not worked and Jason Taylor needs to change tactic with this.

[titan_uranus 24,571]

20 minutes ago, poita said:

I'm no fan of Bedford, and wish him well at GWS, but I find it really concerning that we now have three players who have been offered contracts for 2023 and have then asked to be traded. 

Presumably that is opportunity for Bedford, money and certainty for Hunt and family for Jackson, but at least two of those we should have been able to manage. 

It's great that we have been able to sign Petracca and Oliver on long term contracts, but overall our list and player management has been so so at best. And now we are starting to see the consequences of this.

This reads, like almost all of your posts, as complaining for complaining's sake.

In the same post you say you don't like Bedford, but then criticise the club for failing to do something more/different to keep him.

Presumably had we done so you would then have criticised the club for giving another year/contract to a player you don't like and who we don't play very often.

[Stiff Arm 4,419]

10 hours ago, Demon Head said:

Geebus - the way we’re going, the only player at the club left whose fast will be Oskar Baker 

The ball moves faster than the players. I'd rather the ball in a slower player's hands with quick vision and decision making than those of Baker any day

But I too hoped TB would stay