On 11/08/2022 at 03:55, Demonstone said:

Yet if Grundy ends up at Geelong some posters (not looking at you) will whinge that they have all the luck!

At $700,000 they can have him

That is an absurd figure for an injury prone 29 year old

  On 11/08/2022 at 03:41, Demon17 said:

Do you seriously reckon Jason Taylor will be outplayed on this?

I don't. The one thing I'm certain of the deal will suit us. I love the idea of the Pies paying us to have an AA standard player they no longer want.  Due diligence needed of course to minimise our risk of further health issues.

How much involvement will JT have though? He is more drafting than trading, Josh Mahoney used to be our trading guru - is that Alan Richardson now?

  On 11/08/2022 at 03:41, Demon17 said:

Do you seriously reckon Jason Taylor will be outplayed on this?

I don't. The one thing I'm certain of the deal will suit us. I love the idea of the Pies paying us to have an AA standard player they no longer want.  Due diligence needed of course to minimise our risk of further health issues.

Let The Filth pay $700,000 a year. And the MFC pay $300,000

Then it is a good deal. 

  On 11/08/2022 at 04:10, Sir Why You Little said:

Let The Filth pay $700,000 a year. And the MFC pay $300,000

Then it is a good deal. 

Would rather the filth keep him the next 5 and be obligated in paying his $1m/year salary

  On 11/08/2022 at 03:55, Demonstone said:

Yet if Grundy ends up at Geelong some posters (not looking at you) will whinge that they have all the luck!

I will be laughing, you can react however way you like

Seriously hope we.come to our senses on this.  Has Deesaster written allover this one.

Picket needs to jump the Fence at the next training session and pay Goody a visit.  I'm happy to pass by the Queen Market for the assist...

  On 11/08/2022 at 04:08, Sir Why You Little said:

At $700,000 they can have him

That is an absurd figure for an injury prone 29 year old

Not that I'm advocating for him, not super keen, but he's 28 and this is the first year he's missed a large amount of games through injury.

  On 11/08/2022 at 05:01, Lord Nev said:

Not that I'm advocating for him, not super keen, but he's 28 and this is the first year he's missed a large amount of games through injury.

Agree and his stats aren't too bad for those that love them. Played nearly every game since his second season. Only played 6 games before injury this year, so a light year for his body.

I am sure the rationale is to let him do all the heavy lifting and extend Max's career.

If you got another 5 years out of both of them, that would be a great result.

If we ended up paying him $600k-$650k a year and give up a lowish pick, for an AA ruckman, who prolongs Max's career into the bargain, that is again another great result.

Imagine a fesh and fit Max coming into a finals series, he could be a match winner like the  2021 PF.

Brodie Grundy

Born:15-Apr-1994 (Debut:19y 103d Last:28y 10d)

Height:203 cm Weight:100 kg

VFL/AFL: 12223rd player to appear, 882nd most games played, 1754th most goals kicked
Collingwood: 1110th player to appear, 57th most games played, 140th most goals kicked
 

Year	Team	#	GM	W-D-L	KI	MK	HB	DI	GL	BH	HO	TK	RB	IF	CL	CG	FF	FA	BR	CP	UP	CM	MI	1%	BO	GA
Totals			177	89-2-86	1406	615	1674	3080	60	55	5629	741	193	382	722	653	307	314	64	1784	1371	158	51	406	30	53
Averages			17.70	50.85%	7.94	3.47	9.46	17.40	0.34	0.31	31.80	4.19	1.09	2.16	4.08	3.69	1.73	1.77	0.38	10.08	7.75	0.89	0.29	2.29	0.17	0.30
2013	Collingwood	35	7	4-0-3	35	18	53	88	1	3	151	22	3	15	17	22	8	16		52	42	3	3	13		1
2014	Collingwood	4	15	8-0-7	73	36	79	152	3	8	272	51	16	28	24	47	11	29		77	79	11	7	29	1	7
2015	Collingwood	4	19	9-0-10	156	66	137	293	8	3	462	85	24	34	61	61	28	30		154	137	9	5	30	1	6
2016	Collingwood	4	21	9-0-12	190	81	197	387	11	8	548	92	20	43	81	85	39	39	7	205	194	14	10	49	6	5
2017	Collingwood	4	20	9-1-10	166	73	202	368	4	5	714	78	27	42	81	74	26	26	2	197	172	17	3	45	3	5
2018	Collingwood	4	26	17-0-9	206	92	319	525	9	8	1038	134	28	61	138	91	55	43	17	318	223	32	5	73	8	9
2019	Collingwood	4	24	16-0-8	237	105	274	511	7	11	1022	104	28	50	146	102	53	47	23	329	202	29	4	64	4	4
2020	Collingwood	4	19	10-1-8	105	57	168	273	3	3	593	68	14	37	61	48	43	28	6	169	110	20	5	41	2	6
2021	Collingwood	4	20	4-0-16	185	72	197	382	12	6	647	84	28	49	80	92	31	43	9	218	174	20	9	42	3	5
2022	Collingwood	4	6	3-0-3	53	15	48	101	2		182	23	5	23	33	31	13	13		65	38	3		20	2	5

Edited August 11, 20222 yr by Redleg

  On 11/08/2022 at 02:14, Dr. Gonzo said:

Why would we be screwed? Our midfield is strong enough that they should be able to break even at minimum at centre clearance. In fact we have lost centre clearances a number of times the last two years despite having a dominant ruck and midfield! You just need a big body who can compete and bring the ball to ground for our mids and running players. Just compete around the ground and don't get outmarked.

We are blessed to have Max with some of his around the ground work but the ruck position is the most overvalued position in footy.

Except when you don't have a ruckman that can play the position properly

Without Max & Jackson this week we'd be back to Weideman (in a must-win game) That's already happened this season as well

So Jackson looks like he's on the move and Max will be 31 going in to next season.  And Max has the odd injury concern

I can see why we would pursue Grundy as he's a bona-fide ruckman who has been an All-Australian twice with 2 Copeland Trophies to his name.  Going into next season as a 28yo with about 5 years left

He won't cost much in trade value (a swap of late round picks), the Pies would be paying a fair slice of his salary (in a salary that we might have been paying LJ) and we need another ruckman who can play the main role (not just a back-up)

We can also draft or trade for a couple of ruckmen who can act as reserve ruckman (Weideman could be one of those 2)

Fact is that we would be bringing in at least 2 ruckmen in the off-season to replace LJ (if he's gone) and Majak Daw anyway

So why not a ready made, plug in and play ruckman like Grundy? 

I'm not concerned about the money as we would have had the money put aside for LJ anyway (all-up, probably about the same amount)

And you'd have to say that right now, Grundy is a big upgrade on LJ in terms of pure rucking ability

  On 11/08/2022 at 05:01, Lord Nev said:

Not that I'm advocating for him, not super keen, but he's 28 and this is the first year he's missed a large amount of games through injury.

He will be 29 next year and the injury he has sustained is serious 

I wouldn’t be paying that much for him 

  On 11/08/2022 at 05:11, Redleg said:

Agree and his stats aren't too bad for those that love them. Played nearly every game since his second season. Only played 6 games before injury this year, so a light year for his body.

I am sure the rationale is to let him do all the heavy lifting and extend Max's career.

If you got another 5 years out of both of them, that would be a great result.

If we ended up paying him $600k-$650k a year and give up a lowish pick, for an AA ruckman, who prolongs Max's career into the bargain, that is again another great result.

Imagine a fesh and fit Max coming into a finals series, he could be a match winner like the  2021 PF.

Brodie Grundy

Born:15-Apr-1994 (Debut:19y 103d Last:28y 10d)

Height:203 cm Weight:100 kg

VFL/AFL: 12223rd player to appear, 882nd most games played, 1754th most goals kicked
Collingwood: 1110th player to appear, 57th most games played, 140th most goals kicked
 

Year	Team	#	GM	W-D-L	KI	MK	HB	DI	GL	BH	HO	TK	RB	IF	CL	CG	FF	FA	BR	CP	UP	CM	MI	1%	BO	GA
Totals			177	89-2-86	1406	615	1674	3080	60	55	5629	741	193	382	722	653	307	314	64	1784	1371	158	51	406	30	53
Averages			17.70	50.85%	7.94	3.47	9.46	17.40	0.34	0.31	31.80	4.19	1.09	2.16	4.08	3.69	1.73	1.77	0.38	10.08	7.75	0.89	0.29	2.29	0.17	0.30
2013	Collingwood	35	7	4-0-3	35	18	53	88	1	3	151	22	3	15	17	22	8	16		52	42	3	3	13		1
2014	Collingwood	4	15	8-0-7	73	36	79	152	3	8	272	51	16	28	24	47	11	29		77	79	11	7	29	1	7
2015	Collingwood	4	19	9-0-10	156	66	137	293	8	3	462	85	24	34	61	61	28	30		154	137	9	5	30	1	6
2016	Collingwood	4	21	9-0-12	190	81	197	387	11	8	548	92	20	43	81	85	39	39	7	205	194	14	10	49	6	5
2017	Collingwood	4	20	9-1-10	166	73	202	368	4	5	714	78	27	42	81	74	26	26	2	197	172	17	3	45	3	5
2018	Collingwood	4	26	17-0-9	206	92	319	525	9	8	1038	134	28	61	138	91	55	43	17	318	223	32	5	73	8	9
2019	Collingwood	4	24	16-0-8	237	105	274	511	7	11	1022	104	28	50	146	102	53	47	23	329	202	29	4	64	4	4
2020	Collingwood	4	19	10-1-8	105	57	168	273	3	3	593	68	14	37	61	48	43	28	6	169	110	20	5	41	2	6
2021	Collingwood	4	20	4-0-16	185	72	197	382	12	6	647	84	28	49	80	92	31	43	9	218	174	20	9	42	3	5
2022	Collingwood	4	6	3-0-3	53	15	48	101	2		182	23	5	23	33	31	13	13		65	38	3		20	2	5

The stats that Grundy accumulated under Buckley's coaching are irrelevant. For those who play Fantasy Football know that Grundy was awarded "Pig Status", an honour that's been bestowed on very few. Tom Mitchell and Tom Rockliff also received this accolade. All 3 would rack up meaningless stats win, lose or draw. Under Buckley, the Pies played a high possession game. Under McRae they play a more daring game. Grundy is excess to their needs.

The only way we should be taking on a large part of his contract is if the Pies give us a 1st or 2nd rd pick. Something similar to the Will Brodie Suns/Dockers trade. If the Pies can't move Grundy's contract, they'll struggle to keep DeGoey or recruit some of their targets. I don't see why we should be giving the Pies a leg up.

I like the idea, mostly because it seems to be the opposite of the consensus around here.

Get in Grundy! If nothing else the game day thread will be filled with fury, finger pointing and rant. So probably not that different.

Not having a good ruck division is fine ..... if you set up your team to not rely on good rucks. 

But we have Max Gawn, one of the best rucks in recent memory. We have set up a game around his ability to win contests and help others win contests. So we have set up a team around his ability to dominate the ball in the air where other teams cannot. It's one of our great advantages as a team. 

A lot of great rucks haven't won flags because their teams haven't been good enough to exploit their skills in a way that wins flags. We don't. We rely on Max's ability to win big contests when we're out of options, which allows us to play defensively. Our game needs good rucks and the FD seem to be doubling down on that. 

Max is the best ruckman in the game. He has won a flag.

  On 10/08/2022 at 10:35, MrFreeze said:

The prospect of making this deal is looking worse and worse 

Imagine trading out Jacko and a first rounder and getting grundy on a monster contract at the end of this 🤮

History of injuries, age, doubt that we'll get 5 years from him. Handy, at best, now and in the future. Nothing more. We'd do better elsewhere, particularly if we could find a young forward or two who might also lend a rucking hand. We have developing talent at Casey and that is some bright future (across the ground) to relish and blood into the big time. Grundy just won't improve any more, but it is conceded that he has been a great footballer. We'd get 40 more more goals per season if we could teach Max to kick - and develop a leading forward line from the talent already there. 

 

Gawn and Grundy would be quite a weapon.  My problem is Grundy was one of the best players in the competition.  Then he got that mega deal and has been poor since.  

  On 11/08/2022 at 06:00, Axis of Bob said:

Not having a good ruck division is fine ..... if you set up your team to not rely on good rucks. 

But we have Max Gawn, one of the best rucks in recent memory. We have set up a game around his ability to win contests and help others win contests. So we have set up a team around his ability to dominate the ball in the air where other teams cannot. It's one of our great advantages as a team. 

A lot of great rucks haven't won flags because their teams haven't been good enough to exploit their skills in a way that wins flags. We don't. We rely on Max's ability to win big contests when we're out of options, which allows us to play defensively. Our game needs good rucks and the FD seem to be doubling down on that. 

Max is the best ruckman in the game. He has won a flag.

Correct. Max is the best ruckman in the game. So what percentage of game time does Max get as the number 1 ruck when Grundy plays?

What differentiates Max to Grundy is his ability to take contested marks down back or in the forward line as a pure ruckman. Grundy is not a great contested mark. Max is also an excellent runner for his size, and can push forward or back from the contest, whereas Grundy gets from stoppage to stoppage.

Max and Grundy are different players. Max is far more impactful. Why take the pre-eminent ruckman out of his best position for extended periods of the game?

Edited August 11, 20222 yr by mo64

  On 11/08/2022 at 04:10, Sir Why You Little said:

Let The Filth pay $700,000 a year. And the MFC pay $300,000

Then it is a good deal. 

Now way any 5 year deal would be "a good deal" given his injury history.  Maybe 3 years with us paying 30%, and the Mugpies paying 70% for the 3 years, then 100% for the final two years after he limps off and away.

  On 11/08/2022 at 05:36, mo64 said:

The stats that Grundy accumulated under Buckley's coaching are irrelevant. For those who play Fantasy Football know that Grundy was awarded "Pig Status", an honour that's been bestowed on very few. Tom Mitchell and Tom Rockliff also received this accolade. All 3 would rack up meaningless stats win, lose or draw. Under Buckley, the Pies played a high possession game. Under McRae they play a more daring game. Grundy is excess to their needs.

The only way we should be taking on a large part of his contract is if the Pies give us a 1st or 2nd rd pick. Something similar to the Will Brodie Suns/Dockers trade. If the Pies can't move Grundy's contract, they'll struggle to keep DeGoey or recruit some of their targets. I don't see why we should be giving the Pies a leg up.

No dramas, Max can probably play against him at the Cats or Port, as they are apparently very interested too.

I am not advocating we get Grundy, but surely he would be better than a less talented, less experienced ruckman, who will probably cost us about $200k less and may not help Max as much as he can. I don't see any other AA ruckmen rushing over to us.

What is the value of having Max for a couple more years and maybe fitter and fresher in finals? It's also interesting that Max seems to be in favour of getting him across to us and met with him and our FD.

I am sure JT and TL will make the right decision.

  On 11/08/2022 at 06:33, monoccular said:

Now way any 5 year deal would be "a good deal" given his injury history.  Maybe 3 years with us paying 30%, and the Mugpies paying 70% for the 3 years, then 100% for the final two years after he limps off and away.

His injury history is playing nearly every game since his second season and only really being injured this year.

Let's not rewrite history.

We hold the cards, if the Pies want to facilitate Tarnato, Hill, etc trades they'll effectively have to trade Grundy for pick 50 I reckon

  On 11/08/2022 at 04:04, Demonstone said:

MFC trades for Grundy:  It's a terrible decision.  He's injury prone/too old/contract is too long/$ too big.

GFC trades for Grundy:  It's a great decision.  They keep doing this and never bottom out.  I hate Geelong.

Both can be right though.

Grundy plays best as a solo ruckman and we have Gawn on our list. Geelong don't currently have the same talent in the ruck. He would make them a lot better and might make us worse.

The plan might be a 70/30 split (Grundy70%/Gawn 30%) for on ball ruckwork with Max doing all the ruck work in the forward line pushing up to high half forward

Grundy then drops back or hovers around the middle with that split

And vice-versa when it's roles reversed.  The only sticking point might be if Grundy provides any value in the forward line but that could be off-set somewhat if we go back to playing 2 big-bodied KPF's along with Fritsch as the 3rd forward

Remembering that we went into the finals last year with Ben Brown, T-Mac & Fritsch as the mainstays with Gawn or Jackson floating forward as another marking target.  A flag resulted with that forward line set-up

So in that instance, Grundy would become a dangerous forward with the opposition endeavouring to match up our talls.  And he's a big, imposing lad

The club will want to develop JVR but I'd be surprised if we don't pursue a decent KF (with some experience) in the off-season

Getting Grundy across might just be the 1st or 2nd part of the puzzle (as we may well know what we are getting for LJ and that trade value for LJ might be already earmarked)

List management would have started quite a while ago

Max Gawn only had 56% CBA's against Collingwood for 31 disposals & 10 marks

He will rack up the pill regardless of the role he plays, such is his work rate & marking ability

Reckon Grundy will do the bulk of the heavy lifting in the middle and Gawn will remain a 20+ disposal per game player

Edited August 11, 20222 yr by adonski

so, a mullet for a man-bun?

  On 11/08/2022 at 06:59, adonski said:

Max Gawn only had 56% CBA's against Collingwood for 31 disposals & 10 marks

He will rack up the pill regardless of the role he plays, such is his work rate & marking ability

Reckon Grundy will do the bulk of the heavy lifting in the middle and Gawn will remain a 20+ disposal per game player

Just need Gawn to take a few more marks in the goal square to make sure of them....