5 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

I don’t mind having Grundy in the 22 at all. I am just worried about his injury. He hasn’t played a game since Anzac Day. 
Why is he going to be ready to play Senior Footy by Round 1.

We have heard nothing 

Huge Risk for 5 years 

We have Tom with 2 years to go at probably more and he has just re injured his foot after also being out for most of the season and BBB with 2 years left, also at good money, with a degenerating knee.

This stuff happens on player lists all the time.

4 minutes ago, Kent said:

Our problem wasn't the rucks, which by the way seem less important in modern footy, its our seeming inability to kick gettable goals form our large number of inside fifties. We are way to defensive and  teams like Collingwood just push through usz>

Please address this in the off season

Pressure rating is the key stat. Our system is impregnable when our pressure rating is up.

We have to replace Jackson, so Grundy makes sense.

5 minutes ago, Redleg said:

We have Tom with 2 years to go at probably more and he has just re injured his foot after also being out for most of the season and BBB with 2 years left, also at good money, with a degenerating knee.

This stuff happens on player lists all the time.

The difference is The Filth don’t want him anymore. I don’t believe this is all about money. His playing abilities are also high risk

13 minutes ago, Sir Why You Little said:

The difference is The Filth don’t want him anymore. I don’t believe this is all about money. His playing abilities are also high risk

This, worries me that at his best Grundy is a  mobile, following ruckman who should fit their current gameplan perfectly.  

Just now, Bates Mate said:

This, worries me that at his best Grundy is a  mobile, following ruckman who should fit their current gameplan perfectly.  

Exactly. They have put a line through his name, and he doesn’t want to go. 
that doesn’t show me a lot of motivation to succeed somewhere else…

2 hours ago, Hannibal Inc. said:

You could list 100 chronological events of the past and they would mean precisely nothing when evaluating this potential trade.  It's a non sequitur argument.

There are legitimate reasons why some aren't sure of a Grundy trade; Lumumba, et al, isn't one of them.

As for the trade ?  I'm open-minded.  

The idea that the competition's best core midfield is serviced by multiple AA calibre ruckman for 100% of game-time is somewhat compelling.  In and of itself it's a tremendous advantage going into any game.

But how would it work ?  For the longevity of both players, as well as integrating a workable system, I suspect you'd look to play both for approx. 75% game-time.  It feels like Grundy would be the main ruck and perhaps play 60% ruck with Max at 40%.

If both are playing 75% game-time then they're on the ground for roughly 90 of 120 minutes, i.e. Grundy 54 minutes as main ruck and Gawn 36 minutes.

This would then leave Grundy with 36 minutes not in the main ruck position and Gawn with 54.  

Btw, this isn't meant to be a precise exercise and their time on ground together would be staggered across 120 minutes.

Under the above scenario Gawn has approx. 13.5 minutes per quarter of game-time where he's either in the forward half or behind the ball - just under half a quarter while he's not the main ruckman.  The corresponding time for Grundy is 9 minutes per quarter.

Is it workable ?  Can either hit the scoreboard enough to concern the opposition ?  Or are they a liability while they're not the main ruck ?

What other tactics does Goodwin have in mind ?

For me it's workable IF the forward-line is potent without either player's presence up forward.  If the connection is much better, if McDonald gets back to his best, if van Rooyen is somewhat of a revelation, if a key forward trade target comes to fruition, or if Brown returns to form (I have dounts).  One expects more of the same from Fritsch and Pickett.  But general ball movement from defence to the F50 needs to improve a heap.  It can.

There are pros and cons for me, and I fully understand the skepticism, but I also see a pretty exciting upside.  Imagine it worked while we're in our flag window.  Some times you have to take a risk.

*I'm assuming both Grundy and Gawn have no ongoing injury concerns.  They're both in their prime as ruckman.  Many rucks play to 34-35 years of age.

Plenty of smart people can't see it working, plenty of smart people can and plenty have an open-mind.

Could it work? Sure. We would be a contender with Grundy and we would obviously be better placed with him on our list than without him.

Does is it the best move to maximise our chances of winning flags? I doubt it. We certainly improve our ruck position for 25% of the game but our forward line becomes clunky for 60% of the game.

I think we would be better off setting up defensively at stoppages when Gawn is resting and picking up a player like Gunston or Henry to boost our forward line.

 

I'm warming to the Grundy recruitment idea after initially being highly sceptical. Having him with the Dees would feel a bit like (NFL references coming here...) the 49rs in the late 80's that had all-time great Joe Montana as quarterback and the 2nd best Quarterback in the NFL at the time Steve Young as the backup. (Or perhaps it's more like Stuart McGill playing in the same team as Shane Warne)

How could they work together?

• It has been suggested in the media that they could split their roles as 'forward half' and 'back half' ruckmen. We would have a ruckman always one kick ahead or behind the play while the other competed. I think this is a better type of idea than 'rest as a forward'. Max a kick behind play is where he plays some of his best footy.
• Splitting ruck duties 50/50 would likely extend Max's career instead of 80/20.
• I can also envisage kick-out scenarios where we split our two ruckman between left and right sides - or perhaps left and centre. We send Gawn one way and Grundy another.

We then draft a young ruck to replace Grundy and we have 4-5 years for them to make good, rather than 2-3 with Max.

 

9 minutes ago, Big Col said:

We then draft a young ruck to replace Grundy and we have 4-5 years for them to make good, rather than 2-3 with Max.

kalani white - 2024 father-son selection

5 hours ago, mo64 said:

I forgot Steven Pitt. I still think he should have been a late inclusion in the 2000 GF instead of Ben Beams.

Would of made all the difference.

32 minutes ago, whatwhat say what said:

kalani white - 2024 father-son selection

Thought he was 2025? Played under 15s this year.

Just now, Clintosaurus said:

Thought he was 2025? Played under 15s this year.

ah, i was thinking it was kynan brown 2023 and kalani white 2024?

Grundy is playing a blinder as we speak (and type).

11 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Stuart McGill was one of the top 5 spinners Australia has ever produced but it rarely made sense to pick him in the test team alongside Warnie. 

We would be better off allocating our salary cap space elsewhere to improve our forward line. 

We do still need another ruck though if Max were to go down for an extended time with injury. 

4 minutes ago, Boots and all said:

We do still need another ruck though if Max were to go down for an extended time with injury. 

Yes agreed, but we don’t need to chew up $3.5m of future salary cap space. 

Hmm, 2023 and 2025 drafts to look forward to. There is some risk with Grundy. I am only in favour of trading for him if we still get a 1st rounder to use in this draft. 

Just now, manny100 said:

Hmm, 2023 and 2025 drafts to look forward to. There is some risk with Grundy. I am only in favour of trading for him if we still get a 1st rounder to use in this draft. 

Should not be giving up anything more than a second rounder for him. It’s a salary dump from the filth and he also has injury issues.

They can take it or leave it (would rather we go hunting for a half decent KPF and damaging mid)

Channel 7 just reported that Grundy is a “strong chance to land at Melbourne”.

Why are Collingwood willing to trade Grundy? 

- injury will persist and restrict his future (?)

- need some salary cap space (to recruit Mcstay) and Grundys $800,000 a year wage is too large given Cox and Cameron combo preferred (?) 

Why does Melbourne want Grundy? 
- need some relief for Gawn to share the ruck load 

- if Pies pay 1/2 salary, then he represents a reasonable risk/reward 

I’m sure Pert will be across this decision and have some insights from his time with Collingwood and connections.  

 

24 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Should not be giving up anything more than a second rounder for him …

… (would rather we go hunting for a half decent KPF and damaging mid)

Agree DD

At the Swans game, I had the fortune to have Jeff White sitting in front with his 3 sons, which augurs well. Kalani is much older than his siblings and is seriously tall but he is a kid, and looks 16.

The trend is now to draft players for the now and the next 2 seasons. Geelong, Sydney and the Hawks all bought in players from other clubs. The days of drafting and getting a 10-year, 200-game player have been diminished. If grundy comes in and gives 4 years of good service then he has paid his way. To me Jackson is a speculative future champion getting paid more than anyone else on our list. Gunston for 1 maybe 2 seasons will be worth the investment and clubs are getting smarter about how they rebuild their lists.

Geelong got smashed last year's prelim have this year bought in Stengel and debuted De Koning. They introduced Holmes last year and changed Atkins role this year. Dahlhaus, Narkle, Higgins and Parfitt cannot get a game nor can Ratugolea & Menegola. 4 minor changes and Geelong are revitalised and play a different style of footy. Our challenge is to find better players than Jackson, Hunt, Hibberd, Melksham, Spargoi and maybe ANB. I don't care if they are 18, 25 or 28 just do it 

Seems like it's happening. Whether we want it or not 

He’ll look good in the 6 jumper.

8 minutes ago, layzie said:

Seems like it's happening. Whether we want it or not 

Most importantly, the club wants it. I trust their judgement over mine and with all due respect, Demonlanders. 

26 minutes ago, Crystal Dees said:

Most importantly, the club wants it. I trust their judgement over mine and with all due respect, Demonlanders. 

Turning your back on some quality list managers there. But I agree 

Grundy's price went down by 25% today

Think on it...you'll realise why