19 minutes ago, old dee said:

Over the last few weeks I have watched Jackson closely and have changed my view. He is IMO grossly over rated. Let him go home and get the best possible deal. Then screw the Pies on a Grundy deal as it would appear they want his salary gone. 
 

His game last night was one of the poorest he has played but he certainly wasn’t on his own some of our most reliable players put in shockers - not sure why 

He was perfectly fine just two weeks ago in Brisbane 

Judging the value of LJ on last nights game or even a handful of games is ridiculous - please remember he is a 20 yo and last night for whatever reason we he had plenty of mates who performed well below their capability 

6 minutes ago, Sydee said:

His game last night was one of the poorest he has played but he certainly wasn’t on his own some of our most reliable players put in shockers - not sure why 

He was perfectly fine just two weeks ago in Brisbane 

Judging the value of LJ on last nights game or even a handful of games is ridiculous - please remember he is a 20 yo and last night for whatever reason we he had plenty of mates who performed well below their capability 

A ruckman he might be a forward he ain't. Seems to put in his best games when the team is up. Does little to help when we are playing poorly. 

Barrett: "Grundy will be a Melbourne player once/if Jackson requests a trade"

https://www.triplem.com.au/story/damo-s-trade-mail-on-hopper-taranto-grundy-and-bruhn-205389

2 hours ago, adonski said:

Barrett: "Grundy will be a Melbourne player once/if Jackson requests a trade"

https://www.triplem.com.au/story/damo-s-trade-mail-on-hopper-taranto-grundy-and-bruhn-205389

I think I would prefer Grundy.

After what I witnessed last night, I'd prefer Tom Hickey to Grundy, seriously.

We don’t need to spend 700k+ on a 29 year old injured ruckman. Or any ruckman for that matter. The role is the least impactful on the ground. We need quality tall marking forwards and skillful midfielders and forward flankers. Spend the big bucks on the key forward!

1 minute ago, Lord Travis said:

We don’t need to spend 700k+ on a 29 year old injured ruckman. Or any ruckman for that matter. The role is the least impactful on the ground. We need quality tall marking forwards and skillful midfielders and forward flankers. Spend the big bucks on the key forward!

I was thinking along similar lines today: we now have the best defence and a stellar midfield. The last piece of the puzzle is the forward line: looks like JVR will be in next year, but I think we also need a big target (Weid isn’t going to cut it) and also another skilful flanker who can deliver good entries.

We need a decent forward crumber who does more than pressure acts and actually kicks goals (Elliot; Papley; Stengle etc)

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

If we are bringing in Grundy as reported for the sole purpose of Gawn being able to spend more time up forward then we're making a big mistake imo.

The Gawn experiment up forward simply has to cease and accept that he's not a natural forward and it completely throws our structure out of wack.

Let me remind that since the Sydney game back in round 12 Gawn has kicked only 2 goals. That's right, 2 goals playing more predominantly up forward and having no influence whatsoever. 

Watching Hickey completely dismantle both Gawn and Jackson shows you don't need to break the bank for a star ruckman.

Just a touch of hyperbole there Daz.  Gawn had 30 hitouts from 49 contests and 14 hitouts to advantage.  To go with his three contested marks (5 in total) and a goal.Hickey won 24 hitouts from 71 contests with 7 to advantage. With one contested mark and 1 goal.  I grant you the bit about Jackson - 13 hitouts from 34 contests and 1 mark and 7 disposals at 43% effectiveness. Gawn got half the centre bounce attendances for the night and beat Hickey comprehensively when he got the chance to play where the best ruck in the league should play - the ruck. I'd argue we would have been substantially better off had the best ruckman on the ground actually played in the ruck for an appropriate amount of time.

6 minutes ago, #11-TonyAnderson said:

We need a decent forward crumber who does more than pressure acts and actually kicks goals (Elliot; Papley; Stengle etc)

You mean Pickett ?

11 hours ago, Sydee said:

His game last night was one of the poorest he has played but he certainly wasn’t on his own some of our most reliable players put in shockers - not sure why 

He was perfectly fine just two weeks ago in Brisbane 

Judging the value of LJ on last nights game or even a handful of games is ridiculous - please remember he is a 20 yo and last night for whatever reason we he had plenty of mates who performed well below their capability 

He was crap last night. Not even the positive police could defend that 

11 hours ago, JimmyGadson said:

 

I genuinely hope Jackson goes. 

Nothing personal, but it's time to rejig our list and Jackson simply isn't worth what Freo want to pay him. 

Grundy and two first rounders is exactly what we need for another tilt over the next few years. And it's not just about the two first rounders, it's what we will be able to do with them as far as pick trading goes. We're masters of that. 

 

 

Jackson’s the type of dynamic flair player we need, he’s just super young and carrying an injury. He could be coached to do a lot more as a forward or mid, not to mention how incredible he will be when given a permanent ruck spot. He’s been a dynamic driving force in our wins v Bris and Freo late this year, and in a grand final!

If we replace him with Grundy that’s a big step back in getting skill and athleticism in to the list. 

2 firsts is an opportunity. But our so called great trading success was going hard for Oliver and moving a pick forward a year for Pickett. Weid was a fail. Jury is still out on the Bowey, Laurie move and on moving up for JVR.

In all those deals teams were betting we wouldn’t succeed and we bet on ourselves, which was a lot easier when we had plenty of improvement left. That’s harder now teams won’t bet against us when trading picks. 

Agree on the need to rejig the list and game plan. Wish we could do it without losing Jacko and/or by bringing in an athletic forward/ruck rather than Grundy.

9 minutes ago, Swooper1987 said:

Just a touch of hyperbole there Daz.  Gawn had 30 hitouts from 49 contests and 14 hitouts to advantage.  To go with his three contested marks (5 in total) and a goal.Hickey won 24 hitouts from 71 contests with 7 to advantage. With one contested mark and 1 goal.  I grant you the bit about Jackson - 13 hitouts from 34 contests and 1 mark and 7 disposals at 43% effectiveness. Gawn got half the centre bounce attendances for the night and beat Hickey comprehensively when he got the chance to play where the best ruck in the league should play - the ruck. I'd argue we would have been substantially better off had the best ruckman on the ground actually played in the ruck for an appropriate amount of time.

No I agree wholeheartedly mate. Goody coached poorly in this regard.

6 minutes ago, layzie said:

He was crap last night. Not even the positive police could defend that 

Yep was overwhelmed

36 minutes ago, #11-TonyAnderson said:

We need a decent forward crumber who does more than pressure acts and actually kicks goals (Elliot; Papley; Stengle etc)

Papley is one of the most irritating players about…but I wish he played for us.

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

The Gawn experiment up forward simply has to cease and accept that he's not a natural forward and it completely throws our structure out of wack.

I don’t like it for the future but for this year I really think it’s the best we’ve got without Tom McDonald.

Jackson gives us much needed energy at the first bounce and we’ve had some high quality centre clearances with him in there. BBB then starts on the bench which immediately cuts down his game plan.

Remember that all 3 of Brown, Jackson and Gawn are carrying injuries to some extent and the only alternative or help available is a kid.

Gawn and BBB alternating at CHF has allowed us to halve contests and not get intercepted easily at half back. Whilst Melk deep has dragged another tall defender away. Melk and Fritsch have both had plenty of chances to kick winning scores every week since we’ve gone to this change up.

Max in the ruck and mobile key forwards certainly the way to go in the future though.

If we're able to turn Jackson into Cadman + Keeler I'll only look back on Jackson's time with fondness for the fun of it and no regrets.

If the trade to get Grundy would jeopardise a double up like that then I'm a hard no.

BUT if the trade will be for some middling picks and we get to laugh as Collingwood pay 40% of Grundy's salary for three years, count me in. Realistically we could be paying barely more than we are for Dunstan, and maybe he won't see out all five years of his contract, but then again maybe he will and maybe his presence will add a few years to Gawn's career as well.

2 hours ago, Lord Travis said:

We don’t need to spend 700k+ on a 29 year old injured ruckman. Or any ruckman for that matter. The role is the least impactful on the ground. We need quality tall marking forwards and skillful midfielders and forward flankers. Spend the big bucks on the key forward!

I think the big problem is the gun KPF we need isn't available or willing to come to Melbourne.

Therefore, we're looking at trying to maximise our strength in the ruck.

IMV, we need to look at a different forward make up entirely next year anyway.

Half decent KPF’s are probably looking at our atrocious delivery into our forward 50 and not wanting a bar of it

3 hours ago, 3183 Dee said:

Papley is one of the most irritating players about…but I wish he played for us.

Reminds me if zorko

I just can't stand the thought of a Filth player pulling on a Melbourne jumper. 

21 hours ago, old dee said:

Over the last few weeks I have watched Jackson closely and have changed my view. He is IMO grossly over rated. Let him go home and get the best possible deal. Then screw the Pies on a Grundy deal as it would appear they want his salary gone. 
 

Agree with this strategy, wonder who we might have our eyes on if we get some quality draft picks. Knowing Jason Taylor he will audaciously turn good picks into great picks with shrewd manouvering!😁

Gunston would be a much better fit for us. We need to improve the forward line. Play Max 80% ruck with TMac 20%. Simple. 

2 hours ago, Fat Tony said:

Gunston would be a much better fit for us. We need to improve the forward line. Play Max 80% ruck with TMac 20%. Simple. 

I actually think the Weid could do that job.

30 minutes ago, old dee said:

I actually think the Weid could do that job.

Weideman could but we lose pressure.

My view is we are better off with no weak links. The final series can really expose talls who are liabilities on the deck and don’t apply pressure.

Go with Van Rooyen, TMac, Gunston and Fritsch with smalls.