Jump to content

Featured Replies

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

Surprise surprise, I also heard something similar.

 
2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Yep. Or someone in the club or FD. Or ANY club or FD, not just Melbourne. It could even be one of those hot-shot football commentators, they love having inside goss "An exclusive from our man on the scene: Tom what do you have for us on the reason for Melbourne's two losses ..."

And at anytime, could be last season or any season.

Go for it.

That's a somewhat disingenuous use of quotes (ie the bit you highlighted in your post i have quoted above)

The full context was:

'A coach or player coming out and saying they are loading? Well that's not going to happen.'

But, in any case i've tapped out of the discussion. Happy for you to reject my theory.

(but if i was going to point you to a footballer who says loading happens, i'd recommended you chase up the clip of Jack Riewoldt on AFL 360 from i think 2019 or 2020, who is directly asked about loading and all but confirms they always loaded mid season.

Which explains why they had a mid season slump in form in each of their three premiership years. Well it does for me - others might think it is just a weird coincidence) 

(I'd also add that your 'Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players' example is not particularly relevant for this discussion. They don't have a grand final in the EPL- unlike the AFL every game is a must win and as such there is no need to peak for one game at season's end.

Though I'd bet my bottom dollar that the big clubs in contention for tbe UEFA Champions league title, the most covered in world soccer outside the world cup  use loading to get their best 11 cherry ripe for the final)

Edited by binman

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

For those playing along at home re loading:

Loading does NOT happen in team sports in-season. And that's for any team sport, not just AFL. For any number of reasons, risk of injuries and risk of losing matches being two of them, the limited duration of the resulting peak being another. As for what happens across the season:

"During the in-season phase, the emphasis of training reverts to technical and tactical development and the maintenance of the physical capacities developed during preseason."

"Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players"

James J. Malone, Rocco Di Michele, Ryland Morgans, Darren Burgess, James P. Morton, and Barry Drust

But yes, loading does happen in team sports: it's called pre-season.

Loading primarily happens in individual sports where it is implemented - the important bit - out of competition. i.e., it's the equivalent of a pre-season leading up to, say, a single event (Olympics, world championships etc.). Often found in athletics and sports like cycling - pro cyclists will go out of effective competition to complete an intense training block, often at altitude. They may still do races, but they're primarily treated as training.

There may be any number of reasons for us losing matches, most of which have been touched on here or in the media. Loading isn't one of them.

PS If anyone wants to dig deeper, there's actually a study on loads across a season  in an AFL club, done with the Bulldogs. What did they find? No in-season loading. 

Quantification of Training and Competition Load Across a Season in an Elite Australian Football Club.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/29685/3/Ritchie et al 2015 Quantification of AFL across a season.pdf

And of course you would be aware Burgess totally changed his training philosophies after about 2017 yes?

 

I think Bedford deserves an extended run that's why I would play one less tall and bring in Bedford.

Edited by WERRIDEE

46 minutes ago, binman said:

That's a somewhat disingenuous use of quotes (ie the bit you highlighted in your post i have quoted above)

The full context was:

'A coach or player coming out and saying they are loading? Well that's not going to happen.'

But, in any case i've tapped out of the discussion. Happy for you to reject my theory.

(but if i was going to point you to a footballer who says loading happens, i'd recommended you chase up the clip of Jack Riewoldt on AFL 360 from i think 2019 or 2020, who is directly asked about loading and all but confirms they always loaded mid season. Which explains why they had a mid season slump in form in each of their three premiership years. Well it does for me - others might think it is just a weird coincidence) 

You are spot on Binman. Beyond belief the amount of people on this site, who are surprised that we would copy a winning formula that won us a flag.

10000% we are loading. Don’t know how to make it any clearer. 
 


10 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

You are spot on Binman. Beyond belief the amount of people on this site, who are surprised that we would copy a winning formula that won us a flag.

10000% we are loading. Don’t know how to make it any clearer. 
 

Assumption or you have it on good authority. Not trying to be facetious because your confidence on the matter suggests the later and would give me a little calmness that i am in dire need of. 

FB - Rivers  May  Salem

HB - Brayshaw  Petty  Lever

C - Jordon  Viney  Langdon

HF - Harmes  Jackson  ANB

FF - Fritsch  Brown  Pickett 

Ruc - Gawn  Oliver  Petracca

Int - Bowie, Sparrow, Spargo, Bedford

Sub - Chandler

Out:                              In: 

A. Tomlinson              S. May

J. Hunt                        T. Rivers

M. Brown                    T. Bedford

 

Ben Browns last chance,  think the 3 talls without TMac doesn't work.  so let's use Jackson as a centre half fwd, and go small in the fwd line when he or Gawn are off the ground.

Just my thought,  I doubt they will want to change the structure but something in the fwd line needs to change 

 

18 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

You are spot on Binman. Beyond belief the amount of people on this site, who are surprised that we would copy a winning formula that won us a flag.

10000% we are loading. Don’t know how to make it any clearer. 
 

I also think this is a factor.  Also 2 games with second half fade outs,  got a feeling maybe this flu or bug or whatever is floating around coukd have something to do with it too.

 

I don’t think we’re loading, I just think we’re mentally and physically spent from training and playing hard every single week. 

The guys get a longer break this week and then the bye.

Post bye it’s a 9 week sprint to finals and each week gets closer to crunch time. Easier to see the finish line once that happens 

For me

out M Brown, Petty (inj), Sparrow ( medi sub), Hunt

Ins Rivs, Pig, Bedford

Brayshaw back to a wing, JJ to half forward and pinch hitting in the mid, Fritta from the goal square BBB STARTING 30 out and playing more up the ground.

Gawn and Dogga play a higher mix up forward.


9 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

Didn’t he sign another contract just recently?

Just now, Longsufferingnomore said:

Didn’t he sign another contract just recently?

He's signed up til end of next season.

The rumour on here was we tried to offload him last year to get more trade collateral to facilitate a deal for Cerra. There were either no takers or the offers were so poor it wouldn't have helped us. We subsequently signed him for two years and not long after Cerra nominated the Blues as his destination of choice. No idea if any of this is true or not but it's clear the club don't rate him anymore. Wouldn't surprise to see Weid request a trade at seasons end if he can't get a run at it in the back half of the season. A key position forward must be high on the agenda come trade and draft time. We can't rely on Brown and McDonald this year let alone next and JVR shouldn't be expected to perform at a consistent level for another 3-4 years.

Edited by Nascent

FB - Rivers  May  Lever

HB -Salem  Petty  Bowey

C - Brayshaw   Viney  Langdon

HF - Harmes  Jackson  ANB

FF - Fritsch  B.Brown  Pickett 

Ruc - Gawn  Oliver  Petracca

Int - Jordon, Sparrow, Spargo, Bedford

Sub - Baker
 

In.  May Rivers Bedford 

outs. Tomlinson M.Brown Hunt

Lucky to stay in … BBB, Spargo, ANB.  Bedford needs to be given the chance.  Tomlinson could stay in if Petty doesn’t come up.

Like us, Pies are strong in defense and midfield.  Mids group is Adams Degoey Pendles Sidebottom Lipinski and imv Daicos will be a star.  
Moore Crisp Howe Maynard Quaynor make up a very good defensive line. Their forwards are just average … I think we need Petty for Cox and May for Mihocek. Lever takes Henry.  Rivers takes Ginnivan. 

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

For those playing along at home re loading:

Loading does NOT happen in team sports in-season. And that's for any team sport, not just AFL. For any number of reasons, risk of injuries and risk of losing matches being two of them, the limited duration of the resulting peak being another. As for what happens across the season:

"During the in-season phase, the emphasis of training reverts to technical and tactical development and the maintenance of the physical capacities developed during preseason."

"Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players"

James J. Malone, Rocco Di Michele, Ryland Morgans, Darren Burgess, James P. Morton, and Barry Drust

But yes, loading does happen in team sports: it's called pre-season.

Loading primarily happens in individual sports where it is implemented - the important bit - out of competition. i.e., it's the equivalent of a pre-season leading up to, say, a single event (Olympics, world championships etc.). Often found in athletics and sports like cycling - pro cyclists will go out of effective competition to complete an intense training block, often at altitude. They may still do races, but they're primarily treated as training.

There may be any number of reasons for us losing matches, most of which have been touched on here or in the media. Loading isn't one of them.

PS If anyone wants to dig deeper, there's actually a study on loads across a season  in an AFL club, done with the Bulldogs. What did they find? No in-season loading. 

Quantification of Training and Competition Load Across a Season in an Elite Australian Football Club.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/29685/3/Ritchie et al 2015 Quantification of AFL across a season.pdf

I'm sorry but this is complete BS. Gawn basically admitted after the Port game last year they'd just finished a block of higher intensity/loading training. It was evident to everyone watching the Pies, Bombers and GWS games last year we were extremely sluggish.


I wonder if we could see some swings this week? Petty to the forward line, Brayshaw to the midfield?

Edited by Dr. Gonzo

I would push Gawn forward more, leave the Browns for another week.

Jordan seems so one paced at the minute on the wing. Maybe ANB to the wing and Bedford in would provide more run. 

TBH - whatever gets our forward back to their harassing best is what we need. So the acid should be on Spargo, Harmes, Sparrow, ANB, Pickett, Gawn, M Brown, and BBB to do their bit.

If Gawn is our answer forward than he does create a hole for that pressure.

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I wonder if we could see some swings this week?

I'm reliably informed that there will be a big slide.

11 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

I highly doubt he’ll be around next season . Unfortunately 

Still has a slim chance to turn things around in the VFL to earn some currency.

Media all about how badly the Filth got treated by the umps so buckle up kiddos. Monday’s going to be a hoot!


Maybe we are tapering. Maybe it is a loading thing. 

Or maybe it's that we've been top of the ladder for nearly one and a half seasons, have won a flag, been the bench mark team and every top 8 side have dissected our game to the nth degree since then.. Perhaps because of this and the fact that we're a off in some phases has been the opening for two quality sides to beat us. 

Just a thought.. 

Edited by JimmyGadson

14 hours ago, bing181 said:

For those playing along at home re loading:

Loading does NOT happen in team sports in-season. And that's for any team sport, not just AFL. For any number of reasons, risk of injuries and risk of losing matches being two of them, the limited duration of the resulting peak being another. As for what happens across the season:

"During the in-season phase, the emphasis of training reverts to technical and tactical development and the maintenance of the physical capacities developed during preseason."

"Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players"

James J. Malone, Rocco Di Michele, Ryland Morgans, Darren Burgess, James P. Morton, and Barry Drust

But yes, loading does happen in team sports: it's called pre-season.

Loading primarily happens in individual sports where it is implemented - the important bit - out of competition. i.e., it's the equivalent of a pre-season leading up to, say, a single event (Olympics, world championships etc.). Often found in athletics and sports like cycling - pro cyclists will go out of effective competition to complete an intense training block, often at altitude. They may still do races, but they're primarily treated as training.

There may be any number of reasons for us losing matches, most of which have been touched on here or in the media. Loading isn't one of them.

PS If anyone wants to dig deeper, there's actually a study on loads across a season  in an AFL club, done with the Bulldogs. What did they find? No in-season loading. 

Quantification of Training and Competition Load Across a Season in an Elite Australian Football Club.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/29685/3/Ritchie et al 2015 Quantification of AFL across a season.pdf

It is not saying what you think it is saying Bing.

All teams train... so all teams load (its the volume and intensity that matters)... training in of itself infers a physical output (or load).

Further, in the article you supplied, if there is NO loading, there there are two really weird bits of wording, which I have highlighted in bold, which seems to yet again, infer loading during the season.

I'm not sure what you make of it, I know what I make of it.

 

As part of the Abstract:

These data provide useful information about targeted periods of loading
and unloading across different stages of a season.

As part of the conclusion

Whilst the current study did not examine the within-week loading between games, it can be speculated that the reduction in overall training load from pre-season to in-season would also result in a reduction in training load within week, i.e. between games.
This periodization strategy is supported by recent work where high training load between both AFL and Rugby League games (separated by 1-week) impairs sprint capacity and explosive actions typical of intermittent activity 12 and increases injury risk 13

 

Edited by Engorged Onion

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm sorry but this is complete BS. Gawn basically admitted after the Port game last year they'd just finished a block of higher intensity/loading training. 

I believe you'll find Max was referring to doing full training sessions through the bye in keeping with Burgess' and Goodwin's train hard all year round philosophy. i.e., even in the bye week they had to match game-day loads.

All covered in the quite detailed podcast that Burgess did with Peter Bruckner post GF last year, where he drills down into the specifics of it all.

 
11 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

As part of the Abstract:

These data provide useful information about targeted periods of loading
and unloading across different stages of a season.

As part of the conclusion

Whilst the current study did not examine the within-week loading between games, it can be speculated that the reduction in overall training load from pre-season to in-season would also result in a reduction in training load within week, i.e. between games.
This periodization strategy is supported by recent work where high training load between both AFL and Rugby League games (separated by 1-week) impairs sprint capacity and explosive actions typical of intermittent activity 12 and increases injury risk 13

 

Not sure what the possible confusion is. The "targeted periods of loading and unloading across different stages of a season" refers to the pre-season (higher load) and in-season (reduction in overall training load). There were no targeted periods of loading during the season. 

The second part refers to in-week periodisation, which Burgess and co. covered in the soccer study - harder training earlier in the week to maintain fitness, ease up before matches.

BTW, there was a thread last year on this, maybe tack all this onto that rather than across these other discussions. Mods?

10 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Not sure what the possible confusion is. The "targeted periods of loading and unloading across different stages of a season" refers to the pre-season (higher load) and in-season (reduction in overall training load). There were no targeted periods of loading during the season. 

The second part refers to in-week periodisation, which Burgess and co. covered in the soccer study - harder training earlier in the week to maintain fitness, ease up before matches.

BTW, there was a thread last year on this, maybe tack all this onto that rather than across these other discussions. Mods?

We could name the thread

"Loadin, is my head explodin?'

or

'#loadingmyths".


Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.

Featured Content

  • NON-MFC: Round 10

    The Sir Doug Nicholls Round kicks off in Darwin with a Top 4 clash between the Suns and the Hawks. On Friday night the Swans will be seeking to rebound from a challenging start to the season, while the Blues have the Top 8 in their sights after their sluggish start. Saturdays matches kick off with a blockbuster between the Collingwood and Kuwarna with the Magpies looking to maintain their strong form and the Crows aiming to make a statement on the road. The Power face a difficult task to revive their season against a resilient Cats side looking to make amends for their narrow loss last week. The Giants aim to reinforce their top-eight status, while the Dockers will be looking to break the travel hoodoo. The sole Saturday game is a critical matchup for both teams, as the Bulldogs strive to cemet their spot in the top six and the Bombers desperately want break into the 8. Sundays start with a bottom 3 clash between the Tigers and Kangaroos with both teams wanting to avoid the being in wooden spoon contention. The Round concludes with the Eagles still searching for their first win of the season, while the Saints look to keep their finals hopes alive with a crucial away victory. Who are you tipping and what are the best results for the Demons?

    • 53 replies
    Demonland
  • PREVIEW: Brisbane

    And just like that, we’re Narrm again. Even though the annual AFL Sir Doug Nicholls Round which commemorates the contributions of Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander culture to our game has been a welcome addition to our calendar for ten years, more lately it has been a portent of tough times ahead for we beleaguered Narrm supporters. Ever since the club broke through for its historic 2021 premiership, this has become a troubling time of the year for the club. For example, it all began when Melbourne rebranded itself as Narrm across the two rounds of the Sir Doug Nicholls Round to become the first club to adopt an Indigenous club name especially for the occasion. It won its first outing under the brand against lowly North Melbourne to go to 10 wins and no losses but not without a struggle or a major injury to  star winger Ed Langdon who broke his ribs and missed several weeks. In the following week, still as Narrm, the team’s 17 game winning streak came to an end at the hands of the Dockers. That came along with more injuries, a plague that remained with them for the remainder of the season until, beset by injuries, the Dees were eliminated from the finals in straight sets. It was even worse last year, when Narrm inexplicably lowered its colours in Perth to the Waalit Marawar Eagles. Oh, the shame of it all! At least this year, if there is a corner to turn around, it has to be in the direction of something better. To that end, I produced a special pre-game chant in the local Narrm language - “nam mi:wi winnamun katjil prolin ambi ngamar thamelin amb” which roughly translated is “every heart beats true for the red and the blue.” >y belief is that if all of the Narrm faithful recite it long enough, then it might prove to be the only way to beat the Brisbane Lions at the Gabba on Sunday. The Lions are coming off a disappointing draw at Marvel Stadium against a North Melbourne team that lacks the ability and know how to win games (except when playing Melbourne). Brisbane are, however, a different kettle of fish at home and have very few positional weaknesses. They are a midfield powerhouse, strong in defence and have plenty of forward options, particularly their small and medium sized players, to kick a winning score this week after the sting of last week’s below par performance.

    • 9 replies
    Demonland
  • REPORT: Hawthorn

    There was a time during the current Melbourne cycle that goes back to before the premiership when the club was the toughest to beat in the fourth quarter. The Demons were not only hard to beat at any time but it was virtually impossible to get the better them when scores were close at three quarter time. It was only three or four years ago but they were fit, strong and resilient in body and mind. Sadly, those days are over. This has been the case since the club fell off its pedestal about 12 months ago after it beat Geelong and then lost to Carlton. In both instances, Melbourne put together strong, stirring final quarters, one that resulted in victory, the other, in defeat. Since then, the drop off has been dramatic to the point where it can neither pull off victory in close matches, nor can it even go down in defeat  gallantly.

    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • CASEY: Footscray

    At twenty-four minutes into the third term of the game between the Casey Demons and Footscray VFL at Whitten Oval, the visitors were coasting. They were winning all over the ground, had the ascendancy in the ruck battles and held a 26 point lead on a day perfect for football. What could go wrong? Everything. The Bulldogs moved into overdrive in the last five minutes of the term and booted three straight goals to reduce the margin to a highly retrievable eight points at the last break. Bouyed by that effort, their confidence was on a high level during the interval and they ran all over the despondent Demons and kicked another five goals to lead by a comfortable margin of four goals deep into the final term before Paddy Cross kicked a couple of too late goals for a despondent Casey. A testament to their lack of pressure in the latter stages of the game was the fact that Footscray’s last ten scoring shots were nine goals and one rushed behind. Things might have been different for the Demons who went into the game after last week’s bye with 12 AFL listed players. Blake Howes was held over for the AFL game but two others, Jack Billings and Taj Woewodin (not officially listed as injured) were also missing and they could have been handy at the end. Another mystery of the current VFL system.

    • 0 replies
    Demonland
  • PREGAME: Brisbane

    The Demons head back out on the road in Round 10 when they travel to Queensland to take on the reigning Premiers and the top of the table Lions who look very formidable. Can the Dees cause a massive upset? Who comes in and who goes out?

      • Like
    • 188 replies
    Demonland
  • PODCAST: Hawthorn

    The Demonland Podcast will air LIVE on Monday, 12th May @ 8:00pm. Join Binman, George & I as we dissect the Demons loss to the Hawks. Your questions and comments are a huge part of our podcast so please post anything you want to ask or say below and we'll give you a shout out on the show. If you would like to leave us a voicemail please call 03 9016 3666 and don't worry no body answers so you don't have to talk to a human.

    • 53 replies
    Demonland