CHANGES: Rd 13 vs Collingwood

[picket fence 17,974]

5 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

Surprise surprise, I also heard something similar.

[binman 44,530]

2 hours ago, bing181 said:

Yep. Or someone in the club or FD. Or ANY club or FD, not just Melbourne. It could even be one of those hot-shot football commentators, they love having inside goss "An exclusive from our man on the scene: Tom what do you have for us on the reason for Melbourne's two losses ..."

And at anytime, could be last season or any season.

Go for it.

That's a somewhat disingenuous use of quotes (ie the bit you highlighted in your post i have quoted above)

The full context was:

'A coach or player coming out and saying they are loading? Well that's not going to happen.'

But, in any case i've tapped out of the discussion. Happy for you to reject my theory.

(but if i was going to point you to a footballer who says loading happens, i'd recommended you chase up the clip of Jack Riewoldt on AFL 360 from i think 2019 or 2020, who is directly asked about loading and all but confirms they always loaded mid season.

Which explains why they had a mid season slump in form in each of their three premiership years. Well it does for me - others might think it is just a weird coincidence) 

(I'd also add that your 'Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players' example is not particularly relevant for this discussion. They don't have a grand final in the EPL- unlike the AFL every game is a must win and as such there is no need to peak for one game at season's end.

Though I'd bet my bottom dollar that the big clubs in contention for tbe UEFA Champions league title, the most covered in world soccer outside the world cup  use loading to get their best 11 cherry ripe for the final)

Edited June 6, 2022 by binman

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, bing181 said:

For those playing along at home re loading:

Loading does NOT happen in team sports in-season. And that's for any team sport, not just AFL. For any number of reasons, risk of injuries and risk of losing matches being two of them, the limited duration of the resulting peak being another. As for what happens across the season:

"During the in-season phase, the emphasis of training reverts to technical and tactical development and the maintenance of the physical capacities developed during preseason."

"Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players"

James J. Malone, Rocco Di Michele, Ryland Morgans, Darren Burgess, James P. Morton, and Barry Drust

But yes, loading does happen in team sports: it's called pre-season.

Loading primarily happens in individual sports where it is implemented - the important bit - out of competition. i.e., it's the equivalent of a pre-season leading up to, say, a single event (Olympics, world championships etc.). Often found in athletics and sports like cycling - pro cyclists will go out of effective competition to complete an intense training block, often at altitude. They may still do races, but they're primarily treated as training.

There may be any number of reasons for us losing matches, most of which have been touched on here or in the media. Loading isn't one of them.

PS If anyone wants to dig deeper, there's actually a study on loads across a season  in an AFL club, done with the Bulldogs. What did they find? No in-season loading. 

Quantification of Training and Competition Load Across a Season in an Elite Australian Football Club.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/29685/3/Ritchie et al 2015 Quantification of AFL across a season.pdf

And of course you would be aware Burgess totally changed his training philosophies after about 2017 yes?

[WERRIDEE 5,572]

I think Bedford deserves an extended run that's why I would play one less tall and bring in Bedford.

Edited June 6, 2022 by WERRIDEE

[1964_2 2,357]

46 minutes ago, binman said:

That's a somewhat disingenuous use of quotes (ie the bit you highlighted in your post i have quoted above)

The full context was:

'A coach or player coming out and saying they are loading? Well that's not going to happen.'

But, in any case i've tapped out of the discussion. Happy for you to reject my theory.

(but if i was going to point you to a footballer who says loading happens, i'd recommended you chase up the clip of Jack Riewoldt on AFL 360 from i think 2019 or 2020, who is directly asked about loading and all but confirms they always loaded mid season. Which explains why they had a mid season slump in form in each of their three premiership years. Well it does for me - others might think it is just a weird coincidence) 

You are spot on Binman. Beyond belief the amount of people on this site, who are surprised that we would copy a winning formula that won us a flag.

10000% we are loading. Don’t know how to make it any clearer. 
 

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

10 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

You are spot on Binman. Beyond belief the amount of people on this site, who are surprised that we would copy a winning formula that won us a flag.

10000% we are loading. Don’t know how to make it any clearer. 
 

Assumption or you have it on good authority. Not trying to be facetious because your confidence on the matter suggests the later and would give me a little calmness that i am in dire need of. 

[Travy14 2,032]

FB - Rivers  May  Salem

HB - Brayshaw  Petty  Lever

C - Jordon  Viney  Langdon

HF - Harmes  Jackson  ANB

FF - Fritsch  Brown  Pickett 

Ruc - Gawn  Oliver  Petracca

Int - Bowie, Sparrow, Spargo, Bedford

Sub - Chandler

Out:                              In: 

A. Tomlinson              S. May

J. Hunt                        T. Rivers

M. Brown                    T. Bedford

 

Ben Browns last chance,  think the 3 talls without TMac doesn't work.  so let's use Jackson as a centre half fwd, and go small in the fwd line when he or Gawn are off the ground.

Just my thought,  I doubt they will want to change the structure but something in the fwd line needs to change 

 

[Travy14 2,032]

18 minutes ago, 1964_2 said:

You are spot on Binman. Beyond belief the amount of people on this site, who are surprised that we would copy a winning formula that won us a flag.

10000% we are loading. Don’t know how to make it any clearer. 
 

I also think this is a factor.  Also 2 games with second half fade outs,  got a feeling maybe this flu or bug or whatever is floating around coukd have something to do with it too.

[DeeSpencer 26,273]

I don’t think we’re loading, I just think we’re mentally and physically spent from training and playing hard every single week. 

The guys get a longer break this week and then the bye.

Post bye it’s a 9 week sprint to finals and each week gets closer to crunch time. Easier to see the finish line once that happens 

[Gorgoroth 13,184]

For me

out M Brown, Petty (inj), Sparrow ( medi sub), Hunt

Ins Rivs, Pig, Bedford

Brayshaw back to a wing, JJ to half forward and pinch hitting in the mid, Fritta from the goal square BBB STARTING 30 out and playing more up the ground.

Gawn and Dogga play a higher mix up forward.

[Longsufferingnomore 1,670]

9 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

Didn’t he sign another contract just recently?

[Lord Nev 13,512]

Just now, Longsufferingnomore said:

Didn’t he sign another contract just recently?

He's signed up til end of next season.

[Nascent 9,320]

The rumour on here was we tried to offload him last year to get more trade collateral to facilitate a deal for Cerra. There were either no takers or the offers were so poor it wouldn't have helped us. We subsequently signed him for two years and not long after Cerra nominated the Blues as his destination of choice. No idea if any of this is true or not but it's clear the club don't rate him anymore. Wouldn't surprise to see Weid request a trade at seasons end if he can't get a run at it in the back half of the season. A key position forward must be high on the agenda come trade and draft time. We can't rely on Brown and McDonald this year let alone next and JVR shouldn't be expected to perform at a consistent level for another 3-4 years.

Edited June 6, 2022 by Nascent

[spirit of norm smith 16,615]

FB - Rivers  May  Lever

HB -Salem  Petty  Bowey

C - Brayshaw   Viney  Langdon

HF - Harmes  Jackson  ANB

FF - Fritsch  B.Brown  Pickett 

Ruc - Gawn  Oliver  Petracca

Int - Jordon, Sparrow, Spargo, Bedford

Sub - Baker
 

In.  May Rivers Bedford 

outs. Tomlinson M.Brown Hunt

Lucky to stay in … BBB, Spargo, ANB.  Bedford needs to be given the chance.  Tomlinson could stay in if Petty doesn’t come up.

Like us, Pies are strong in defense and midfield.  Mids group is Adams Degoey Pendles Sidebottom Lipinski and imv Daicos will be a star.  
Moore Crisp Howe Maynard Quaynor make up a very good defensive line. Their forwards are just average … I think we need Petty for Cox and May for Mihocek. Lever takes Henry.  Rivers takes Ginnivan. 

[Dr. Gonzo 24,443]

6 hours ago, bing181 said:

For those playing along at home re loading:

Loading does NOT happen in team sports in-season. And that's for any team sport, not just AFL. For any number of reasons, risk of injuries and risk of losing matches being two of them, the limited duration of the resulting peak being another. As for what happens across the season:

"During the in-season phase, the emphasis of training reverts to technical and tactical development and the maintenance of the physical capacities developed during preseason."

"Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players"

James J. Malone, Rocco Di Michele, Ryland Morgans, Darren Burgess, James P. Morton, and Barry Drust

But yes, loading does happen in team sports: it's called pre-season.

Loading primarily happens in individual sports where it is implemented - the important bit - out of competition. i.e., it's the equivalent of a pre-season leading up to, say, a single event (Olympics, world championships etc.). Often found in athletics and sports like cycling - pro cyclists will go out of effective competition to complete an intense training block, often at altitude. They may still do races, but they're primarily treated as training.

There may be any number of reasons for us losing matches, most of which have been touched on here or in the media. Loading isn't one of them.

PS If anyone wants to dig deeper, there's actually a study on loads across a season  in an AFL club, done with the Bulldogs. What did they find? No in-season loading. 

Quantification of Training and Competition Load Across a Season in an Elite Australian Football Club.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/29685/3/Ritchie et al 2015 Quantification of AFL across a season.pdf

I'm sorry but this is complete BS. Gawn basically admitted after the Port game last year they'd just finished a block of higher intensity/loading training. It was evident to everyone watching the Pies, Bombers and GWS games last year we were extremely sluggish.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,443]

I wonder if we could see some swings this week? Petty to the forward line, Brayshaw to the midfield?

Edited June 6, 2022 by Dr. Gonzo

[rpfc 28,906]

I would push Gawn forward more, leave the Browns for another week.

Jordan seems so one paced at the minute on the wing. Maybe ANB to the wing and Bedford in would provide more run. 

TBH - whatever gets our forward back to their harassing best is what we need. So the acid should be on Spargo, Harmes, Sparrow, ANB, Pickett, Gawn, M Brown, and BBB to do their bit.

If Gawn is our answer forward than he does create a hole for that pressure.

[Demonstone 23,338]

13 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I wonder if we could see some swings this week?

I'm reliably informed that there will be a big slide.

[Gawndy the Great 9,011]

11 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Will be interesting.

Heard some goss this morning that makes me think Weid is not much chance of being picked this week and even a chance to not be with us next year. So you could be right.

I highly doubt he’ll be around next season . Unfortunately 

Still has a slim chance to turn things around in the VFL to earn some currency.

[Gorgoroth 13,184]

Media all about how badly the Filth got treated by the umps so buckle up kiddos. Monday’s going to be a hoot!

[JimmyGadson 3,455]

Maybe we are tapering. Maybe it is a loading thing. 

Or maybe it's that we've been top of the ladder for nearly one and a half seasons, have won a flag, been the bench mark team and every top 8 side have dissected our game to the nth degree since then.. Perhaps because of this and the fact that we're a off in some phases has been the opening for two quality sides to beat us. 

Just a thought.. 

Edited June 6, 2022 by JimmyGadson

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

14 hours ago, bing181 said:

For those playing along at home re loading:

Loading does NOT happen in team sports in-season. And that's for any team sport, not just AFL. For any number of reasons, risk of injuries and risk of losing matches being two of them, the limited duration of the resulting peak being another. As for what happens across the season:

"During the in-season phase, the emphasis of training reverts to technical and tactical development and the maintenance of the physical capacities developed during preseason."

"Seasonal Training-Load Quantification in Elite English Premier League Soccer Players"

James J. Malone, Rocco Di Michele, Ryland Morgans, Darren Burgess, James P. Morton, and Barry Drust

But yes, loading does happen in team sports: it's called pre-season.

Loading primarily happens in individual sports where it is implemented - the important bit - out of competition. i.e., it's the equivalent of a pre-season leading up to, say, a single event (Olympics, world championships etc.). Often found in athletics and sports like cycling - pro cyclists will go out of effective competition to complete an intense training block, often at altitude. They may still do races, but they're primarily treated as training.

There may be any number of reasons for us losing matches, most of which have been touched on here or in the media. Loading isn't one of them.

PS If anyone wants to dig deeper, there's actually a study on loads across a season  in an AFL club, done with the Bulldogs. What did they find? No in-season loading. 

Quantification of Training and Competition Load Across a Season in an Elite Australian Football Club.

https://vuir.vu.edu.au/29685/3/Ritchie et al 2015 Quantification of AFL across a season.pdf

It is not saying what you think it is saying Bing.

All teams train... so all teams load (its the volume and intensity that matters)... training in of itself infers a physical output (or load).

Further, in the article you supplied, if there is NO loading, there there are two really weird bits of wording, which I have highlighted in bold, which seems to yet again, infer loading during the season.

I'm not sure what you make of it, I know what I make of it.

 

As part of the Abstract:

These data provide useful information about targeted periods of loading
and unloading across different stages of a season.

As part of the conclusion

Whilst the current study did not examine the within-week loading between games, it can be speculated that the reduction in overall training load from pre-season to in-season would also result in a reduction in training load within week, i.e. between games.
This periodization strategy is supported by recent work where high training load between both AFL and Rugby League games (separated by 1-week) impairs sprint capacity and explosive actions typical of intermittent activity 12 and increases injury risk 13

 

Edited June 6, 2022 by Engorged Onion

[bing181 9,424]

9 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

I'm sorry but this is complete BS. Gawn basically admitted after the Port game last year they'd just finished a block of higher intensity/loading training. 

I believe you'll find Max was referring to doing full training sessions through the bye in keeping with Burgess' and Goodwin's train hard all year round philosophy. i.e., even in the bye week they had to match game-day loads.

All covered in the quite detailed podcast that Burgess did with Peter Bruckner post GF last year, where he drills down into the specifics of it all.

[bing181 9,424]

11 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

As part of the Abstract:

These data provide useful information about targeted periods of loading
and unloading across different stages of a season.

As part of the conclusion

Whilst the current study did not examine the within-week loading between games, it can be speculated that the reduction in overall training load from pre-season to in-season would also result in a reduction in training load within week, i.e. between games.
This periodization strategy is supported by recent work where high training load between both AFL and Rugby League games (separated by 1-week) impairs sprint capacity and explosive actions typical of intermittent activity 12 and increases injury risk 13

 

Not sure what the possible confusion is. The "targeted periods of loading and unloading across different stages of a season" refers to the pre-season (higher load) and in-season (reduction in overall training load). There were no targeted periods of loading during the season. 

The second part refers to in-week periodisation, which Burgess and co. covered in the soccer study - harder training earlier in the week to maintain fitness, ease up before matches.

BTW, there was a thread last year on this, maybe tack all this onto that rather than across these other discussions. Mods?

[Engorged Onion 10,224]

10 minutes ago, bing181 said:

Not sure what the possible confusion is. The "targeted periods of loading and unloading across different stages of a season" refers to the pre-season (higher load) and in-season (reduction in overall training load). There were no targeted periods of loading during the season. 

The second part refers to in-week periodisation, which Burgess and co. covered in the soccer study - harder training earlier in the week to maintain fitness, ease up before matches.

BTW, there was a thread last year on this, maybe tack all this onto that rather than across these other discussions. Mods?

We could name the thread

"Loadin, is my head explodin?'

or

'#loadingmyths".