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POSTGAME: Rd 07 vs Hawthorn


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1 minute ago, Wodjathefirst said:

Totally agree with everything you said. I just wonder what the other umpires are doing at times.  Clary aside, it just creates a blight on the game as a whole. 

Perhaps the best way to bring it to the umps attention and maybe get a free  is for Clarry to just run straight at the player rather than try to avoid him and tyr to get to the ball. 

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I've only seen highlights but some early thoughts:

  • These are the sorts of games we're "supposed" to be losing. We had five changes from last week, we have seven premiership players out (six of whom are clear best 22 players), we had three key forwards playing in the same side, none of whom are ruckmen (yet we asked one to ruck), we had Smith and Hunt in the same backline, we're playing Melksham who for long parts of the last 12 months has not been at AFL level form. But we're not just banking wins, we're doing so at a percentage of 146%
  • We conceded 11.15. That's 26 scoring shots. That is the most any side has had against us since Round 20, 2019. Obviously 2020 was shortened quarters but that's a worse result than all of our premiership year. The 81 points against was the worst since we lost to the Dogs in our last loss, but inaccuracy stopped Hawthorn scoring more. That indicates we were not at our peak defensively, and arguably quite a fair way from it
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Just watching the replay now. Anyone else notice that Gary dropped the ‘F’ bomb live on tv after Bedford kicked the goal?

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53 minutes ago, Webber said:

Maybe the biggest positive to come from seeing the team without its ‘regulars’, it’s so many people waking up to how important Nibbler is to that system. Not the perfect footballer, he is perilously close to the perfect all-ground, all-the-time competitor. The no. 30 isn’t going to adorn the jerseys of many little Dees, which is a shame, cos he’s unquestionably one of the first 10 picked every week. 

His defensive pressure in the forward half was sorely missed last night.

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8 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

I swear when I read the match report last night it was listed as 29,000! Must have been a typo because it's been changed. 

yeah i saw that too and thought 'mcg screen definitely said 39k'

crowd was right on my expectation but on the train coming in on the caulfield line i must admit i was thinking it could push 50k - definitely the squishiest train ride to the the footy this season so far

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44 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

I've only seen highlights but some early thoughts:

  • These are the sorts of games we're "supposed" to be losing. We had five changes from last week, we have seven premiership players out (six of whom are clear best 22 players), we had three key forwards playing in the same side, none of whom are ruckmen (yet we asked one to ruck), we had Smith and Hunt in the same backline, we're playing Melksham who for long parts of the last 12 months has not been at AFL level form. But we're not just banking wins, we're doing so at a percentage of 146%
  • We conceded 11.15. That's 26 scoring shots. That is the most any side has had against us since Round 20, 2019. Obviously 2020 was shortened quarters but that's a worse result than all of our premiership year. The 81 points against was the worst since we lost to the Dogs in our last loss, but inaccuracy stopped Hawthorn scoring more. That indicates we were not at our peak defensively, and arguably quite a fair way from it

Not quite sure what your point is about Smith & Hunt being in the same backline given that Hunt has played every game and Smith has  played 5 of 7, we have been missing key backs every game and have won all 7. It seems the backline has been functioning well as a unit and I expect even with the poorer performance against Hawthorn we will still have the best-ranked defence at round end. You could even argue Smith's absence in the last quarter against the Hawks was a big part of them kicking 3 last quarter goals.

I think over-analysing our defensive performance based on one game when we were missing 5 players from covid, had disrupted training and had another 2 players probably not fully-fit coming back from covid is a bit meaningless and unfair.

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1 hour ago, 640MD said:

Watched St Kilda on  the tv at home.

they had a bloody hard game

 

we are premiers but on the early game next Sunday not free to air.  It is a disgrace!!   We should protest loudly

….. and all the more reason to rock up to the game and support our team (for those of us that can, so excusing the elderly , immune compromised, young kids - night games and other legitimate excuses etc).

I know I’m most likely going to put my head on the chopping block but I feel the only let down for me in this incredible journey this year is our crowd (lack of) turning up to games. 

Maybe we are still scared by the past, maybe we do have a lot of ‘fair feather’ supporters that will only come out of their shell if we make the finals and in the meantime  are good at coming up with all sorts of excuses as to why they can’t/ won’t attend eg it’s a Sunday arvo game or public transport concerns- (I bet that won’t be a issue for you come finals).   Just maybe the general perception that other teams supporters have of us is pretty much spot on. We have room to improve!

For years I dreamed of the mighty Dees coming good and dominating with huge crowds.  First part, tick, second part - still waiting.

Maybe I am a little bit jealous of all the supporters that ‘I love to hate’ that other Victorian clubs have that seem to be  more on board with their team than what we appear to be.
Finally, please don’t see this post as being antagonist, but rather, trying to encourage. I’m not here to say you should stop watching footy on Kayo if that is what you really prefer to do, perhaps just suggesting that if you go / encourage others to go watch the game live you may enjoy it even more.  Word of warning- it could become contagious!

 

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1 hour ago, titan_uranus said:

I've only seen highlights but some early thoughts:

  • These are the sorts of games we're "supposed" to be losing. We had five changes from last week, we have seven premiership players out (six of whom are clear best 22 players), we had three key forwards playing in the same side, none of whom are ruckmen (yet we asked one to ruck), we had Smith and Hunt in the same backline, we're playing Melksham who for long parts of the last 12 months has not been at AFL level form. But we're not just banking wins, we're doing so at a percentage of 146%
  • We conceded 11.15. That's 26 scoring shots. That is the most any side has had against us since Round 20, 2019. Obviously 2020 was shortened quarters but that's a worse result than all of our premiership year. The 81 points against was the worst since we lost to the Dogs in our last loss, but inaccuracy stopped Hawthorn scoring more. That indicates we were not at our peak defensively, and arguably quite a fair way from it

It was a great highlights package, they showed just about all Hawthorn goals and maybe 5 of ours. 

Edited by Dee Zephyr
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2 hours ago, Cassiew said:

I definitely could have seen that going either way. If it made been played as a point I wouldn’t have protested 

I would have protested. He took a clean one-grab mark. In that situation, it's either a goal or a mark, never a behind. If he didn't take a clean mark and touches it before the whole ball is across the line then the only decision is a  behind. Extremely clear cut decision-making process.

 

2 hours ago, 640MD said:

Watched St Kilda on  the tv at home.

they had a bloody hard game

 

we are premiers but on the early game next Sunday not free to air.  It is a disgrace!!   We should protest loudly

There are 9 games every weekend. The way the AFL maximises it's  revenue is the Channel 7/Foxtel arrangement. The TV rights deal is how the game survives. What that means is only 4 or 5 of 8 games gets shown live on 7. Parking my Demons supporters position for a moment, the St Kilda/Port game was objectively more likely to be a close game (at least pre-5 players going down with COVID at Melbourne). It's not about who are the Premiers, it's about TV ratings.

Either go to the game or get Kayo. Or if that doesn't work, watch the entire replay on the AFL website the next day.
 

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28 minutes ago, Wodjathefirst said:

….. and all the more reason to rock up to the game and support our team (for those of us that can, so excusing the elderly , immune compromised, young kids - night games and other legitimate excuses etc).

I know I’m most likely going to put my head on the chopping block but I feel the only let down for me in this incredible journey this year is our crowd (lack of) turning up to games. 

Maybe we are still scared by the past, maybe we do have a lot of ‘fair feather’ supporters that will only come out of their shell if we make the finals and in the meantime  are good at coming up with all sorts of excuses as to why they can’t/ won’t attend eg it’s a Sunday arvo game or public transport concerns- (I bet that won’t be a issue for you come finals).   Just maybe the general perception that other teams supporters have of us is pretty much spot on. We have room to improve!

For years I dreamed of the mighty Dees coming good and dominating with huge crowds.  First part, tick, second part - still waiting.

Maybe I am a little bit jealous of all the supporters that ‘I love to hate’ that other Victorian clubs have that seem to be  more on board with their team than what we appear to be.
Finally, please don’t see this post as being antagonist, but rather, trying to encourage. I’m not here to say you should stop watching footy on Kayo if that is what you really prefer to do, perhaps just suggesting that if you go / encourage others to go watch the game live you may enjoy it even more.  Word of warning- it could become contagious!

 

A fair assessment.

I think there are several reasons for poor crowds, in addition to not enough dee fans attending.

1) opposition fans don't turn up.

2) We and most teams we play at the G don't have AFL members so that stand is near empty for many games

3) Few if any Friday night games means we don't get the 'neutral' fan to our games.

Hopefully, more dees fans go to our forthcoming games vs 'better' and some 'bigger' teams.  But I feel the 3 points I mentioned above make it difficult for us to regularly get 'big' crowds to our games.

 

Edit:  Now to put the counter point of view😉 our average Home game attendances have been better than most clubs and better than some 'big' Vic clubs.  We sit 3rd.  Being Home games it excluses the ANZAC Eve game.  So perhaps we aren't as bad as we think.   Source:  Footywire after round 6.

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Edited by Lucifers Hero
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5 hours ago, #11-TonyAnderson said:

Jimmy Stynes won a Brownlow - when Max wins one they’ll be on par 

I’d argue if Jimmy had won a premiership he’d be in the discussion for greatest with Max. Ask the players which they prefer, Brownlow or Premiership captain…

Max is clearly the greatest ruckman of the modern AFL era, his competition is Dean Cox, Simon Madden and Nic Nat. The only one troubling him there is Cox imo. And he’ll go past him this year if we keep going. 
 

For those complaining about crowd numbers 40000 is not bad at all, pretty good actually, from where I was sitting the gaps were in the Hawthorn cheer squad. 4.35 is a terrible time slot! Finishes late enough to miss dinner and be going home in the dark, for someone who works nights I had to leave at 3 quarter time. But doesn’t gain any advantage by starting so late. 3-6 is a much better time slot. 

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8 minutes ago, deejammin' said:

Nic Nat

Not even close to the conversation for mine. Paddy Ryder at his best (just past it now) is the albeit mostly forgotten comparison. Sean Darcy the incumbent. 

Edited by Webber
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6 minutes ago, dees189227 said:

I can't remember who ended up kicking the goal but Bedford's pick up at his feet when it came to him & he just picked it up & got it to a teammate was awesome

It was Bedford, to Tmac to BBB who kicked the goal.

To digress, I just watched Yze's presser. He is very intelligent and articulate. I doubt that we'll have him for long ... senior coach in waiting.

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43 minutes ago, Wodjathefirst said:

….. and all the more reason to rock up to the game and support our team (for those of us that can, so excusing the elderly , immune compromised, young kids - night games and other legitimate excuses etc).

I know I’m most likely going to put my head on the chopping block but I feel the only let down for me in this incredible journey this year is our crowd (lack of) turning up to games. 

Maybe we are still scared by the past, maybe we do have a lot of ‘fair feather’ supporters that will only come out of their shell if we make the finals and in the meantime  are good at coming up with all sorts of excuses as to why they can’t/ won’t attend eg it’s a Sunday arvo game or public transport concerns- (I bet that won’t be a issue for you come finals).   Just maybe the general perception that other teams supporters have of us is pretty much spot on. We have room to improve!

For years I dreamed of the mighty Dees coming good and dominating with huge crowds.  First part, tick, second part - still waiting.

Maybe I am a little bit jealous of all the supporters that ‘I love to hate’ that other Victorian clubs have that seem to be  more on board with their team than what we appear to be.
Finally, please don’t see this post as being antagonist, but rather, trying to encourage. I’m not here to say you should stop watching footy on Kayo if that is what you really prefer to do, perhaps just suggesting that if you go / encourage others to go watch the game live you may enjoy it even more.  Word of warning- it could become contagious!

 

i just don't think we have a massive support base. Back in the day when I was at high school in the 80's, you could count the Dee's supporters on one hand. 6 decades of medicocrity will do that. The other factor is that when you are a successful club, it inspires fans to go to the footy. There are generations of Demons supporters who may never have even attended a footy game,  because their familes just didn't attend games, so a culture of going to the footy never eventuated. I made sure my nephews became Melbourne supporters, and I even took one of them to a game, but they have never really been interested because we were so ordinary for so long.

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1 hour ago, Sydney_Demon said:

I would have protested. He took a clean one-grab mark. In that situation, it's either a goal or a mark, never a behind. If he didn't take a clean mark and touches it before the whole ball is across the line then the only decision is a  behind. Extremely clear cut decision-making process.

 

There are 9 games every weekend. The way the AFL maximises it's  revenue is the Channel 7/Foxtel arrangement. The TV rights deal is how the game survives. What that means is only 4 or 5 of 8 games gets shown live on 7. Parking my Demons supporters position for a moment, the St Kilda/Port game was objectively more likely to be a close game (at least pre-5 players going down with COVID at Melbourne). It's not about who are the Premiers, it's about TV ratings.

Either go to the game or get Kayo. Or if that doesn't work, watch the entire replay on the AFL website the next day.
 

I meant if it was a goal or mark 🥱

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I was watching this match while at work so wasn’t able to to fully concentrate on it but these were my thoughts.

I think we hit our straps for about a 20min period in the third and that was enough to do the job, the rest we were fumbly, scrappy, and particularly in the first quarter dropped marks we would usually swallow. I will tip my cap to the Hawks on this that they put good pressure on us almost constantly which meant we had the perceived pressure even when we were out. 

Our forward connection is my biggest concern at the moment, we are too often doing no look kicks and putting it in the defenders advantage. Happened at least 4 times to Brown but I also noticed Weid had occasions where it was put on the head of the defender. Fritta showed the mids how it was done with kicking to space for Bedfords goal. 

I was really happy for Bedford in that he not only got a full game but contributed positively, he’s lively and I think if Kozzie wasn’t Kozzie he would have a decent crack at being in our 22. Currently he’s in our 23 and he just needs to keep taking his chance when they come.

Speaking of taking chances, sadly Melks didn’t take his. While he had some good moments, that kick at the end was such a butch for someone who used to be a dead eye. He kicks that and there was zero chance the Hawks come back, he missed and it kept them in the game. 

I thought Weid fought hard as the second ruckman, it’s tough on him though as I thought TMac did his job as second forward but Weid was going to be given a body of games to prove himself. So Jacko comes back next week, who goes out?

We got scored against the heaviest in a while, but it was still 4 goals less than 100. Our defensive unit won’t be happy with that but was that also down to the structure up the line? It’s never all down to the defence. 

Finally, credit to the Hawks for playing their style. Slow playing against us is playing into our hands, but the Hawks we’re quick and daring. I don’t they’ll last the season but it was one of the few times I really felt we didn’t have the game on our string as usual. 

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15 hours ago, DubDee said:

I’m sure I am taking it for granted. But we are witnessing our greatest ever ruckman and one of our best players ever

There was a player in the 50's and 60's called "Big Bob" Johnson and he player in 7 Grand Finals for Melbourne and won 5 of them.

He also topped the goal kicking twice and was a giant of a man (198cm) in that era, just like Max is now. Not saying he was better than Max, but you have to consider his record. Team of the century, Hall of Fame, he was a demon great and his father played for the Dees as well.

He went to play with Oakleigh and he was great value to watch there he was so big they couldn't' get round him, a lot of the oldies on here will remember him..

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3 hours ago, Nasher said:

Watched the Bedford running goal a couple of times now. How good is the gather (kick from TMac was a scrubber) and handball from Melksham? Perfect. Vintage Melksham. Well done.

Another quality aside of that goal was watching Sam Frost get left in Bedford’s dust. Everything started going right once we got rid of that guy. 

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10 minutes ago, Mel Bourne said:

Another quality aside of that goal was watching Sam Frost get left in Bedford’s dust. Everything started going right once we got rid of that guy. 

Harsh. Frost is a capable AFL level defender. He has obvious limitations, but I think it’s rough to pin the whole side’s performance during his time with us on him. We spent a huge amount of draft/trade capital on May and Lever; had we not been able to attract defenders of that calibre, Frost would probably still be with us.

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9 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Harsh. Frost is a capable AFL level defender. He has obvious limitations, but I think it’s rough to pin the whole side’s performance during his time with us on him. We spent a huge amount of draft/trade capital on May and Lever; had we not been able to attract defenders of that calibre, Frost would probably still be with us.

Oh sorry, I was just being facetious. No way would I seriously attempt to pin our reversal of fortune on one player leaving the club. 

Frost is obviously an incredible athlete, but his football is downright ugly at times. I (and many others here) thought so when he was at our club, and not much has changed since. 
 

But no, his leaving and our rise were two unrelated events, and I would’ve tried to make the attempted-humour more obvious but I am hamstrung with a keen hangover. 

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19 minutes ago, Nasher said:

Harsh. Frost is a capable AFL level defender. He has obvious limitations, but I think it’s rough to pin the whole side’s performance during his time with us on him. We spent a huge amount of draft/trade capital on May and Lever; had we not been able to attract defenders of that calibre, Frost would probably still be with us.

Agree on the level on blame on Frost, disagree he'd still be with us.

His style of play ('Frostball') was exactly what the club set about changing post-2019 when we were the highest team for points given up from back half turnovers. I still love the bloke tbh, amazing athlete and comes across as a really earnest footballer, but his decision making meant his papers were stamped once it became a big focus for Goody.

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