Welcome to Demonland: Jacob Van Rooyen

[Neil Crompton 5,852]

This bloke is giving me flashbacks! And they aren’t great ones. Is there a doctor in the house?

[BAMF 4,485]

  On 19/05/2022 at 02:52, Deedubs said:

name calling? where was I using name calling? I showed facts. Go to leading goal scorers of 2022. Look at their heights.  That's from a large sample size. If I show 30 key forwards who average 199cm in height, I'm not sure why people mention forwards that are small to demonstrate the point that smaller forwards can be good? it's not even my point. My point is that key forwards are 199cm on average these days. In 5-10 years time, it could very well be 201-203cm. I'm not sure how many people have seen JVR live (I have). He's good, but he's not super tall.  

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The problem is that you are saying JVR isnt a KPF because he isn't tall enough and everyone is pointing out that there are plenty of other forwards at the same height who ARE KPF.

You also say that key forwards on average are 199cm as fact to support your argument which doesn't fit what other posters think is true.

I agree with you that I want a 195cm+ (not fussed if he isn't 200cm)  tall forward to compliment JVR.

[BAMF 4,485]

  On 19/05/2022 at 00:47, Sydney_Demon said:

Thanks for your analysis BAMF. I can totally see the logic of having a taller key forward to pair with JVW medium-to-long term. Regarding recruiting a 200cm+ developing ruck, there is already one playing for Casey, Jack Bell ex-St Kilda 202cm and still only 21, and we should look to get him on the Melbourne list.

Not sure about the analysis though of Coleman medallists, especially when you're applying 5 year averages to only 22 years and less if you look at duplicates. Clearly when 4 of the 22 entries are Buddy Franklin, 199cm but with a unique set of skills which no other player has, it distorts the numbers. Coleman winners are not just winners because of their height. It depends on the team they play for, injuries, other forwards, game style ... If you looked at average goals per game preferably for the top 10 key forward goal kickers for each year it would be more meaningful.

Bailey Fritsch kicked the most goals in the AFL lat year (with the aid of finals) and he's only 188cm 😄.

 

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I loved everything you have written.

I didn't think about the double up's skewing the data. 

I think that tall forwards are getting a lot taller these days and a quick look at Flashinthepan's supported my opinion. True confirmation bias at its best.

While I cannot be bothered looking all the figures up, I still maintain that my opinion is true. Might be easier to ask sirswampthing on twitter!

[djr 1,605]

  On 19/05/2022 at 03:04, Neil Crompton said:

This bloke is giving me flashbacks! And they aren’t great ones. Is there a doctor in the house?

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Yeah Demonland has had a few of them. That said they seem to come and go. Hopefully this one will be no different. 

[Demon Disciple 12,537]

If you’re good enough, you’re big enough.

[durango 2,024]

  On 19/05/2022 at 02:09, Deedubs said:

completely missed the point. We're not saying that you can't be a good forward unless your tall. We're saying that the majority of the best tall forwards in 2022 are 199cm on average. It's like all thumbs are fingers but not all fingers are thumbs. Not sure how what I said could be misconstrued.

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I thought we were talking about Jacob not the current 199+ forwards I have noticed one thing all these 199+ forwards play well below their knees this is a result of players now work on mobility as well as marking at training so they can be multifaceted rather than the lumbering mark or spoil player who are useless once he ball hits the ground.

If you look at the NBA players like Ben Simmons are now guards at 211 not like the old days were guards were between 183-200. 

[Deedubs 157]

  On 19/05/2022 at 04:57, durango said:

I thought we were talking about Jacob not the current 199+ forwards I have noticed one thing all these 199+ forwards play well below their knees this is a result of players now work on mobility as well as marking at training so they can be multifaceted rather than the lumbering mark or spoil player who are useless once he ball hits the ground.

If you look at the NBA players like Ben Simmons are now guards at 211 not like the old days were guards were between 183-200. 

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yep, it's the evolution of the game. Even josh giddey at 6'8 is a guard. I love it how people get so excited about Cripps being an inside mid at 195cm but in basketball that's a pretty standard guard height. 

Edited May 19, 2022 by Deedubs

[layzie 34,528]

  On 19/05/2022 at 04:57, durango said:

 

If you look at the NBA players like Ben Simmons are now guards at 211 not like the old days were guards were between 183-200. 

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Except Magic!

[Deedubs 157]

  On 19/05/2022 at 03:40, djr said:

Yeah Demonland has had a few of them. That said they seem to come and go. Hopefully this one will be no different. 

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Harsh. I've at least done some research and added something. I think looking at our list and what we should look for in the next draft/trade period is definitely worthwhile. 

[Sydney_Demon 1,175]

  On 19/05/2022 at 02:52, Deedubs said:

name calling? where was I using name calling? I showed facts. Go to leading goal scorers of 2022. Look at their heights.  That's from a large sample size. If I show 30 key forwards who average 199cm in height, I'm not sure why people mention forwards that are small to demonstrate the point that smaller forwards can be good? it's not even my point. My point is that key forwards are 199cm on average these days. In 5-10 years time, it could very well be 201-203cm. I'm not sure how many people have seen JVR live (I have). He's good, but he's not super tall.  

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Deedubs, what you actually posted in conclusion was 'keep up junior'  but if you're not capable of recognising insults in your own posts don't worry about it. I'll take it as a compliment 😄.

  On 19/05/2022 at 06:07, Deedubs said:

yep, it's the evolution of the game. Even josh giddey at 6'8 is a guard. I love it how people get so excited about Cripps being an inside mid at 195cm but in basketball that's a pretty standard guard height. 

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I'm not quite sure exactly what basketball, and the NBA in particular, has to do with Australian Rules, but my naive view would be that height is a lot more crucial in any position on a basketball court including point guard than it is for a midfielder or forward in the AFL. I'll take your word for the fact 195cm (about 6'5'' in the old language) is pretty standard for a point guard in the NBA and that there is a trend towards more height, but as I say I can't see how this is directly translatable to the ideal height for AFL players.  Steph Curry is a point guard and only 188cm and seems to do quite well so all is not lost for the smaller NBA guys.

I am glad that you mentioned how tall Patrick Cripps is, because that clearly shows how tall key forwards ideally should be. Jacob van Rooyen can move to the midfield as we are desperately short of midfield depth.

[mauriesy 7,444]

Charlie Curnow at 192cm has just kicked 14 goals in three weeks, including two bags of 6.

[Lord Travis 10,819]

The height discussion this thread is one person arguing an incorrect view. Move on. JVR has the size to be an effective marking forward option and looks like a talented tough kid.

[adonski 13,274]

  On 20/05/2022 at 12:38, mauriesy said:

Charlie Curnow at 192cm has just kicked 14 goals in three weeks, including two bags of 6.

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It's unfortunate JVR is a couple cm taller, could have been a star 

[deanox 10,070]

I swear we had this conversation in 2004 right after we drafted Bate, Dunn and Newton and there was an argument about whether they were the wrong size at 192 and 193 cm.

[4_Kent_Watts 898]

  On 19/05/2022 at 01:09, Deedubs said:

They'd get killed in the air. 

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Just curious how much time does a ball spend in the air as to how long the ball is on the ground during a full afl game?

[Deedubs 157]

  On 20/05/2022 at 12:51, deanox said:

I swear we had this conversation in 2004 right after we drafted Bate, Dunn and Newton and there was an argument about whether they were the wrong size at 192 and 193 cm.

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really? Well Bate was a dud, Dunn was solid he was very makeshift and spent time in defence at the pies and Newton looked great on the eye but never carved out a career.  

Shame about Jurrah. 

Edited May 20, 2022 by Deedubs

[58er 6,872]

  On 20/05/2022 at 12:51, deanox said:

I swear we had this conversation in 2004 right after we drafted Bate, Dunn and Newton and there was an argument about whether they were the wrong size at 192 and 193 cm.

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Bate was never considered a KP player Dunn  did at least get a real career  after moving to defence and Newton  was entirely a David Cordner  clone who could jump but actually marking was beyond him. Should have been a high jumper in training for the Olympics was Juice. 

Jurrah was a freak like Jakovich or as we are lucky to see play for us now  Bayley Fritsch who admittedly is only a third of his career into interestingly.

Their careers were cut short unfortunately but a far better goal average than any over 190/192cm forward except for ex CHB Neiter and Schwarta who still were not 199cm I would not think.

As for JVR I have seen more KP  football skills in his pre draft highlights and half a dozen VFL Casey games to predict that he will be our best KPForward  this century by halfway through this decade.

That is given an injury free run and normal luck in his development irrespective of whether he stays at 193cm or extends to 195cms high.

I remember sighting a first year David Schwartz in the Reserves about after 3 games and saying to my family that he was our next CHF. 

On the same basis JVR shows a wide range of skills but is not as flexible and agile  as Schwartz ( yet) in His style  but it is a very competitive rounded marking kicking and ground play package base for which to launch a career on.

I hope I can get to see him live at Casey before too long when I am down from Qld  for  our next AFL game either Sydney or certainly Pies. 

[Fat Tony 5,337]

  On 20/05/2022 at 12:38, mauriesy said:

Charlie Curnow at 192cm has just kicked 14 goals in three weeks, including two bags of 6.

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Van Rooyen plays more like Weitering, who dominated at the other end. 

[spirit of norm smith 16,679]

Agree JVR is very strong 1-1 for a young kid but also has second efforts so I suppose he’s like Weitering. But as a forward, he’s very good because he’s very smart and presents well.  The other week, he held off his defender and protected to drop zone before diving forward to take a chest mark and goaled. Showed very good footy awareness.  Could play Key back or key forward imv. 

[Deedubs 157]

He definitely looked great as a defender in the Under 18 champs. I could've sworn we were going to play him there. Oh well, the MFC know what they're doing. 

[Dees2014 2,377]

  On 19/05/2022 at 03:19, BAMF said:

The problem is that you are saying JVR isnt a KPF because he isn't tall enough and everyone is pointing out that there are plenty of other forwards at the same height who ARE KPF.

You also say that key forwards on average are 199cm as fact to support your argument which doesn't fit what other posters think is true.

I agree with you that I want a 195cm+ (not fussed if he isn't 200cm)  tall forward to compliment JVR.

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David Neitz 195 cm. That should tell us all we need to know…

[dazzledavey36 56,345]

  On 21/05/2022 at 02:42, Dees2014 said:

David Neitz 195 cm. That should tell us all we need to know…

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Neitz was a 191cm..

[whatwhat say what 23,863]

  On 21/05/2022 at 02:46, dazzledavey36 said:

Neitz was a 191cm..

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was always listed as 193cm on the back of my footy cards in the 90s

[dazzledavey36 56,345]

[djr 1,605]

  On 21/05/2022 at 01:49, Deedubs said:

He definitely looked great as a defender in the Under 18 champs. I could've sworn we were going to play him there. Oh well, the MFC know what they're doing. 

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According to Jason Taylor he was recruited as a key forward.