Welcome to Demonland: Jacob Van Rooyen

[Fat Tony 5,105]

It was great to see Van Rooyen kick a bag on the weekend and get so much of the ball, even if the opposition was hopeless. He certainly looks a player of the future.

But I still think the game is trending against 193cm forwards, so I think he is more likely to make it in defence. Why? The current Coleman leaders include 10 giant forwards who have kicked 223 goals (Tom Lynch, Tom Hawkins, Peter Wright, Max King, Lance Franklin, Harry McKay, Levi Casboult, Joe Daniher, Mabior Chol, Mitch Lewis), 6 tall/mid-sized forwards who have kicked 130 goals (Charlie Curnow, Jeremy Cameron, Aaron Naughton, Brody Mihocek, Bayley Fritsch, Nick Larkey) and 4 small forwards who have kicked 81 goals (Zac Bailey, Charlie Cameron, Isaac Heeney, Shai Bolton). I don’t see Van Rooyen as being as elusive as the tall/mid-sized forwards batch except for maybe Larkey and Mihocek, who are both focal points of their attack due to necessity.

The other thing I would say is that our game plan for slow plays is to kick to big packs of 4+ and use our big ruckman and Brown. This isn’t a plan which suits smaller key forwards.

I think he projects more as a Weitering type defender, which is pretty exciting.

As for comparisons with the Ox. Pre-knee Ox was quicker and had a bigger leap and he played more like Charlie Curnow than Van Rooyen. Van Rooyen moves more like TMac but I doubt he has that level of endurance.

All that said, playing forward is not a bad thing for his development this year.

[Lord Travis 10,502]

Though he played both forward and back at underage level, the club is developing him as a forward. We have no other young tall forward talent. B Brown and TMac retire in the coming years (ask will M Brown and Daw) and we need to replace them. We have Weid and that’s it.down back we have plenty of options after May retires in a few years. We’ve got Lever, Petty, Tomlinson, Smith, Turner.

Roo will develop and stay a forward. He’s developing well so far for a young tall and will likely see game time at senior level next year IMO. He competes really well, not afraid of a contest, hits packs, shows footy smarts too. Exciting to see what he’ll become for our club in a few years.

[Sideshow Bob 2,294]

If there was ever a soft debut slot for him it’s this week

 

I say get him in. If as everyone says once he’s in it’s going to be hard to get him back out - that’s beautiful - all for making our team better

not a fan of this let him ‘develop’in the 2s. he’s physically ready, playing well. Should be playing in the top tier to develop against proper backmen

no point in waiting for a slot that may not appear…  

Jakovich had to kick 60 something goals in 8 weeks as we had Darren Bennett going well at senior level… we were immediately better with him in. No point in a physically ready gun in waiting to be playing 2s

its very different to throwing jack watts to wolves on QBD 

[Supreme_Demon 3,324]

I would definitely like to see Jacob Van Rooyen have his debut for the Demons soon.

Not sure if it will be this week against the Kangaroos (especially as Sam Weideman also kicked 6 goals) though.

Nevertheless, I think he will definitely get a chance this season if he continues to kick bags of goals for Casey at VFL level.

The wonderful thing is that there is no pressure on him to come and play AFL when he isn't ready yet.

As others have mentioned, it is certainly a far cry from the days of when Jack Watts was "thrown to the wolves" against Collingwood in this debut game on Queen's Birthday Monday back in 2009. I remember receiving the text message from the Melbourne Football Club announcing the debut of the 2008 number 1# draft pick as they were desperate to have Demons supporters attend the match at the MCG to get a decent crowd. How times have changed!

[Sydee 4,217]

32 minutes ago, Sideshow Bob said:

If there was ever a soft debut slot for him it’s this week

 

I say get him in. If as everyone says once he’s in it’s going to be hard to get him back out - that’s beautiful - all for making our team better

not a fan of this let him ‘develop’in the 2s. he’s physically ready, playing well. Should be playing in the top tier to develop against proper backmen

no point in waiting for a slot that may not appear…  

Jakovich had to kick 60 something goals in 8 weeks as we had Darren Bennett going well at senior level… we were immediately better with him in. No point in a physically ready gun in waiting to be playing 2s

its very different to throwing jack watts to wolves on QBD 

I am on record as saying JVR has great potential and is developing well at Casey BUT

IMO he is not ready to produce more than BBB, Fritta, TMac or even Weid at AFL level and there is absolutely no pressing need to play him at that level yet (unless we have senior players unavailable). The comparison with Jakovich is not particularly relevant and Jakovich was simply a freak and more physically ready to deliver at senior level

JVR is still a pup in footballing terms - he is really benefitting from building his fitness and strength competing against senior players (most of the time) at Casey. He has admitted himself it has been a big step up in training loads etc this year. Lets not get too far ahead of ourselves with his latest performance because the opposition was not that strong

He will get his chance when the time is right - our coaches and football department have been doing a great job developing our young players and I have complete confidence in their judgement to play him when they feel he is ready

 

[dazzledavey36 53,008]

34 minutes ago, Supreme_Demon said:

I would definitely like to see Jacob Van Rooyen have his debut for the Demons soon.

Not sure if it will be this week against the Kangaroos (especially as Sam Weideman also kicked 6 goals) though.

Nevertheless, I think he will definitely get a chance this season if he continues to kick bags of goals for Casey at VFL level.

The wonderful thing is that there is no pressure on him to come and play AFL when he isn't ready yet.

As others have mentioned, it is certainly a far cry from the days of when Jack Watts was "thrown to the wolves" against Collingwood in this debut game on Queen's Birthday Monday back in 2009. I remember receiving the text message from the Melbourne Football Club announcing the debut of the 2008 number 1# draft pick as they were desperate to have Demons supporters attend the match at the MCG to get a decent crowd. How times have changed!

I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff may prefer JVR ahead of Weideman in terms of selection now

I do wonder if the club are losing a little patience on Weideman now. He's been given a decent amount of time at senior level but he's simply not taking his chances.

About to turn 25 and yet is still battling it out in the VFL while other KPF's in his draft year such as Hipwood, Curnow and McKay have become established gun forwards of the game.

I reckon the club would have hoped Weideman would have overtaken a 30 year Tom McDonald this year purely that they would need to start bringing in the next wave of talent when the likes of Ben Brown and McDonald finish up.

The performance of Jacob Van Rooyen would no doubt excite the coaching staff knowing that he's probably physically ready to go, but now it's just a matter of finding him a spot.

A bonus for JVR's development this year is if he's able to at least play 5 AFL games then I think the coaching staff would be stoked. Not only that, he goes into this pre season knowing what is expected at AFL level in terms of intensity and the general standard. 

Even if he doesn't play a game and he is able to complete a full VFL season then I too think that's a win for his development. 

Edited May 17, 2022 by dazzledavey36

[TeamPlayedFine39 8,381]

Definitely no rush.
Looks a gem; let's fatten him up in the VFL and unleash him in a year or so when he's 100% ready.

 

 

[Fritta and Turner 4,187]

Do we give Roo a taste against Norf?

[mauriesy 7,167]

1 hour ago, Fat Tony said:

But I still think the game is trending against 193cm forwards, so I think he is more likely to make it in defence.

JVR is 1cm shorter than Josh Kennedy (700 goals), 2cm shorter than Jack Riewoldt (731 goals) and 3cm shorter than Jeremy Cameron (491 goals).

Look at the thickness of your thumb, that's about 2cm. Do you think that makes the difference between a forward who makes it and one who doesn't?

[Nascent 8,680]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I wouldn't be surprised if the coaching staff may prefer JVR ahead of Weideman in terms of selection now

I do wonder if the club are losing a little patience on Weideman now. He's been given a decent amount of time at senior level but he's simply not taking his chances.

About to turn 25 and yet is still battling it out in the VFL while other KPF's in his draft year such as Hipwood, Curnow and McKay have become established gun forwards of the game.

I reckon the club would have hoped Weideman would have overtaken a 30 year Tom McDonald this year purely that they would need to start bringing in the next wave of talent when the likes of Ben Brown and McDonald finish up.

The performance of Jacob Van Rooyen would no doubt excite the coaching staff knowing that he's probably physically ready to go, but now it's just a matter of finding him a spot.

A bonus for JVR's development this year is if he's able to at least play 5 AFL games then I think the coaching staff would be stoked. Not only that, he goes into this pre season knowing what is expected at AFL level in terms of intensity and the general standard. 

Even if he doesn't play a game and he is able to complete a full VFL season then I too think that's a win for his development. 

I agree with most of what you said but can't help but feel for the Weid.

He kicked 8 goals in 4 games and was outperforming McDonald in my view before Jackson goes out with H&S protocols. He's then sent into the ruck and does a serviceable job while McDonald gets his spot back forward. I would have liked to have seen the club put Weid forward and McDonald to the 2s on Jacksons return to the team.  Perhaps there are internal metrics the club has that puts McDonald in front of Weid. Just feel he has never had a clear run at a good chunk of games to gain confidence and in that aspect he's been set up for failure to a degree.

[Demon Disciple 11,762]

27 minutes ago, mauriesy said:

JVR is 1cm shorter than Josh Kennedy (700 goals), 2cm shorter than Jack Riewoldt (731 goals) and 3cm shorter than Jeremy Cameron (491 goals).

Look at the thickness of your thumb, that's about 2cm. Do you think that makes the difference between a forward who makes it and one who doesn't?

If he has long arms then he could easily play taller than his height.

[Nascent 8,680]

JVR attacks the contest with intensity and seems to have a good athletic profile. I recall our interest in Georgiades who stands at 191cm and has similar qualities. Seems our recruiting team certainly don't think his height will be a limiting factor.

[monoccular 17,341]

13 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

If he has long arms then he could easily play taller than his height.

Maybe BBB can donate his arms when he eventually retires 

[loges 6,767]

15 minutes ago, Nascent said:

I agree with most of what you said but can't help but feel for the Weid.

He kicked 8 goals in 4 games and was outperforming McDonald in my view before Jackson goes out with H&S protocols. He's then sent into the ruck and does a serviceable job while McDonald gets his spot back forward. I would have liked to have seen the club put Weid forward and McDonald to the 2s on Jacksons return to the team.  Perhaps there are internal metrics the club has that puts McDonald in front of Weid. Just feel he has never had a clear run at a good chunk of games to gain confidence and in that aspect he's been set up for failure to a degree.

Weid has had many chances, what do you think you're going to see that you haven't seen from him over the past 6 years.

[Wrecker46 2,874]

Jason Taylor doesn't miss.

[loges 6,767]

14 hours ago, Demon Dynasty said:

Haven't seen enough of JVR yet to say who he is like.  TBH i think he is probably so early in his development we may be seeing a young fella who is only about 50% to 60% formed in terms of his style/skills & methods around the big sticks.  Still learning his craft and working his way through things.

Early days and will probably be his own man, but does remind me (just a tad) of the late Greg Parke.  More so than the Ox.

The Ox is a tough comparison.  Such a natural talent.  Had a nice leap, very good overhead mark yet also incrediblly mobile at ground level.  Bit of a bull with ball in hand.  Beautifully balanced & capable of easily  gathering the loose ground ball & finishing on the run even from 40 to 50 out.  Quite adept by foot on either side which made it very difficult for the opp to counter.  Would have/should have been one of the great CHFs of AFL had he not been crueled so many times.  His 1994 finals efforts were something to behold and i really thought we were a show for the Cup that year had Jakovich not been injured.

Regardless if JVR ends up being near or at the level of either of these Demons we'll have something very special to look forward to.

Hope he's a better kick than Greg Parke.

[Leopold Bloom 317]

1 minute ago, loges said:

Hope he's a better kick than Greg Parke.

He is.

[Nascent 8,680]

4 minutes ago, loges said:

Weid has had many chances, what do you think you're going to see that you haven't seen from him over the past 6 years.

I'd like him to have more than 4-5 games in a row to make a proper evaluation. McDonald has had 2 seasons of sub par performances and is on the decline. Personally I felt Weid has been in better form this year and deserves his chance before the situation I described above saw him out of the team. Not saying he will make it necessarily, but I feel his scope is much higher than McDonalds currently.

Now watch McDonald dominate the season and kick 50 goals again 

[loges 6,767]

1 minute ago, Nascent said:

I'd like him to have more than 4-5 games in a row to make a proper evaluation. McDonald has had 2 seasons of sub par performances and is on the decline. Personally I felt Weid has been in better form this year and deserves his chance before the situation I described above saw him out of the team. Not saying he will make it necessarily, but I feel his scope is much higher than McDonalds currently.

Now watch McDonald dominate the season and kick 50 goals again 

Don't know about Tom dominating but his recent form has been quite solid, also Tom was going very well last year until after the Port Adelaide game which was  2/3 of the way through the year so not sub par for 2 seasons 

[Nascent 8,680]

15 minutes ago, loges said:

Don't know about Tom dominating but his recent form has been quite solid, also Tom was going very well last year until after the Port Adelaide game which was  2/3 of the way through the year so not sub par for 2 seasons 

Fair about last year's form but 2019 and 2020 were below average and back third of last year and start of this year he's been treading water.

I'm not intending this to be a pot at McDonald because he's been a wonderful servant of the club and still has a role to play, more just highlighting my view that Weid hasn't been given the same opportunities to thrive in the system. Without Jackson going out with H&S I reckon weid still be in the team and with games against West Coast and kangaroos, he could have had a real opportunity to cement himself in the team. It's on him now to win a spot back and I hope he can.

[loges 6,767]

1 minute ago, Nascent said:

Fair about last year's form but 2019 and 2020 were below average and back third of last year and start of this year he's been treading water.

I'm not intending this to be a pot at McDonald because he's been a wonderful servant of the club and still has a role to play, more just highlighting my view that Weid hasn't been given the same opportunities to thrive in the system. Without Jackson going out with H&S I reckon weid still be in the team and with games against West Coast and kangaroos, he could have had a real opportunity to cement himself in the team. It's on him now to win a spot back and I hope he can.

Yeah, fair enough I'm just not in the Weid camp imo he's had plenty of time.

[durango 1,992]

As a club we have gone past the throwing young players to the wolves prematurely and I believe the senior coach would listen to Mark Williams' assessment whether he is ready or not at the appropriate time.

[Nascent 8,680]

7 minutes ago, loges said:

Yeah, fair enough I'm just not in the Weid camp imo he's had plenty of time.

Fair call, regardless Van Rooyen looks a serious prospect and might supersede both Weid and McDonald in the near future.

[spirit of norm smith 15,325]

1 minute ago, Nascent said:

Fair call, regardless Van Rooyen looks a serious prospect and might supersede both Weid and McDonald in the near future.

That’s the plan.  

[Lord Travis 10,502]

1 minute ago, Nascent said:

Fair call, regardless Van Rooyen looks a serious prospect and might supersede both Weid and McDonald in the near future.

That’s what we all hope for, but he’s not there yet. He’s still a kid and he isn’t ready to replace Ben Brown or TMac in the current wide. He’s behind Weid on form also. Give him time and in the next 1-2 years he’ll probably be ready to step up and get a taste.