On 28/08/2021 at 23:51, S_T said:

So if Green had thrown a punch and the umpire had ducked it, there would be. I thing to see?  Horribly flawed logic there. 

Not flawed at all.  If he had thrown a punch there is clear evidence of threatening behaviour.

I have yet to see clear evidence that Toby's behaviour was verbally of physically threatening.

Anyway, I've said my piece and will now bow out of the discussion and wait and see what happens.

  On 28/08/2021 at 23:51, deanox said:

I can't disagree more here.

Neale may have been more animated, but his contact was about trying to get attention. There was nothing threatening or intimidating about what Neale did, and it was clear he was moving away.

Greene's action was intimidatory, pushing through the physical space of the umpire in an act of dominance. Others have pointed out this is what starts fights at pubs.

It was more threatening and disrespectful than Neales contact, and the only thing that stopped it being harder was that the umpire was forced to move out of the way so he didn't get barged into.

Great summation. Neale’s gaining the umpires attention to self report his bleeding is completely different to what Greene did. 

  On 28/08/2021 at 23:45, Lucifer's Hero said:

If the umpire hadn't stepped aside there would have been body to body contact.  But he did. 

To me it looks like no body to body contact was made. Brushing of arms is about it. 

Toby wasn't in his face yelling and screaming like Neale was.  Neale showed clear disrespect verbally and physically and got a fine.  Toby's 'incident' looks much more tame than Neale's and should get the same or a lesser penalty.

Neale’s was just desperately (too desperately) trying to get the umps attention. Toby’s was intentional physical intimidation, which (to me at least) is patently obvious. He just cannot help himself, much like the elbow fend-off that reversed his free kick. I feel for the kid, because he’s clearly got embedded issues with aggression control. They can’t and won’t let his contact on Stevic pass, and they shouldn’t, but it’s sad for Greene that he just keeps offending. We see the same in other players….Sicily, Hawkins, even Jack Viney, where anger gets the better of them, but Toby Greene’s is less internally regulated, and unfortunately for him, mostly comes off as threateningly violent. 

I wonder what the commentary would be if it was Jack Viney or Steven May - I suspect there would be plenty in the media crying out for suspension

Not sure why Toby is given the leeway he is but some players just appear to be protected from their own stupidity 

  On 28/08/2021 at 23:06, Webber said:

On first crack, Morris, Johnson and Dal Santo were all talking ‘how many weeks’. There’s no way he’s just getting a fine. 

AKA the Brains Club. 

  On 28/08/2021 at 23:56, Lucifer's Hero said:

Not flawed at all.  If he had thrown a punch there is clear evidence of threatening behaviour.

I have yet to see clear evidence that Toby's behaviour was verbally of physically threatening.

Anyway, I've said my piece and will now bow out of the discussion and wait and see what happens.

No evidence! Greene walked straight at a stationary umpire and did not stop. If I did that to you, you would feel threatened. The guy is a serial offender. 8 weeks, 2 weeks out now with 6 suspended. He will do it again, not bright that lad, very good footballer.

The media are bleeding all over this.  Want it to be the big story, and all adding their useless opinions to help get Toby off.  He is like a pervert in the nursing home, cant help but touchie touchie, old Toby.  Repeat offender.  He had no cause to even be that close to Stevic.  Bad look for the game.

I can't understand the "no contact" or "light contact" or "umpire moved out of way" points of view being pushed

Greene clearly makes contact, deliberately, and causes the umpire to move back and turn  -  not bruising strength, but that's not the point

4 weeks

  On 29/08/2021 at 00:00, Ethan Tremblay said:

AKA the Brains Club. 

Yep. And yet, media marshmallow matters. 

The 'litmus test':  What would people on here be saying if it was Oliver?

I rest my case.

On the umpire contact issue, I remember seeing a smiling Christian Petracca put a matey hand on an umps shoulder once - a bit like a Teddy Bear brushing fluff off a pillow, and wondered if the media would comment on it -  just because. It’s all about context, and the context of Toby Greene’s wasn’t good. 

  On 29/08/2021 at 00:07, Lucifer's Hero said:

The 'litmus test':  What would people on here be saying if it was Oliver?

I rest my case.

If Oliver did that I'd say he was an 1d1ot and deserves a ban. Grow up.

 

 

 

Edited August 29, 20213 yr by ManDee
Grow up Oliver not you. I rest my case.

  On 29/08/2021 at 00:07, Lucifer's Hero said:

The 'litmus test':  What would people on here be saying if it was Oliver?

I rest my case.

If this was Oliver I would be saying the same thing.

It is a deliberate and intimidatory action towards the umpire.

  On 29/08/2021 at 00:07, Lucifer's Hero said:

What would people on here be saying if it was Oliver?

For mine, exactly what I’m saying about Greene. The Jack Viney incident is best recent example. No arguments, no Dees blinkers, he got what he deserved. Gee, he was good last night, though! 

What gets me is the arrogance of Green, playing a game of chicken with a stationary umpire, and believing he has the right of way. There is definitely intentional disrespect of the ump - whether there was body contact or not - and that deserves more than a fine.

  On 28/08/2021 at 21:17, Half forward flank said:

Meaning what exactly.

He's a [censored]

  On 29/08/2021 at 00:07, Lucifer's Hero said:

The 'litmus test':  What would people on here be saying if it was Oliver?

I rest my case.

I'd say give him a week or two. I would also be bitterly disappointed that he would be so stupid to do what he did

I certainly wouldn't be happy if it was Oliver for him to miss the Prelim and maybe the GF based on what so far, is inconclusive video. 

Lets wait for the facts before we hang Toby.

I think TG is gone to be honest which is a shame because I want GWS to end  Geelong.

  On 28/08/2021 at 23:51, deanox said:

I can't disagree more here.

Neale may have been more animated, but his contact was about trying to get attention. There was nothing threatening or intimidating about what Neale did, and it was clear he was moving away.

Greene's action was intimidatory, pushing through the physical space of the umpire in an act of dominance. Others have pointed out this is what starts fights at pubs.

It was more threatening and disrespectful than Neales contact, and the only thing that stopped it being harder was that the umpire was forced to move out of the way so he didn't get barged into.

Neale was in the heat of the moment - Greene was premeditated and trying to intimidate / belittle / otherwise fail to show respect to the umpire.  It was NOT in play, it was at a break.  By the way, are players not permitted to speak with umpires at breaks?  Thought that it was only captains.

  On 28/08/2021 at 22:27, Freddy Fuschia said:

The Boys Club working hard to get him off.

What happens in the Grand Final, stays in the grand final. That's what MFC have got to be prepared for.  Not capitulate like we did in 2000. Another poster correctly pointed out that the Greene nudge is exactly what pub bullies do to instigate one-sided brawls.

  On 29/08/2021 at 00:20, Lucifer's Hero said:

I certainly wouldn't be happy if it was Oliver for him to miss the Prelim and maybe the GF based on what so far, is inconclusive video. 

Lets wait for the facts before we hang Toby.

Toby is a thug. He has been reported in 5 of 6 finals campaigns. He is not smart enough to learn. I have seen enough of him to know he is a bully and this was intimidation and disrespect of the umpire. Read the rules regarding this. Guilty

  On 29/08/2021 at 00:07, Lucifer's Hero said:

The 'litmus test':  What would people on here be saying if it was Oliver?

I rest my case.

I think a better test would be: What if the umpire was a woman?

  On 28/08/2021 at 23:36, Demonland said:

 

Lol at a good quality umpire being dropped for not reporting in the spot? Are you kidding?

there is nothing more pointless than in-game reports. The umps have enough to do without being the MRO too

  On 28/08/2021 at 08:22, Redleg said:

TBH Stevic had a strange look and continued to discuss something and it didn't look like a report on the spot.

I get the feeling Stevic doesn't want to report him and from the angle we saw, you don't actually see contact. 

If Stevic says he was only lightly brushed and he wasn't concerned, it will be a fine.

Otherwise everyone will be at the Tribunal and possibly  Court all week.

I think Toby will cop a fine and that will end it.   Very stupid action and in a final with more to come.

 

I think you are right.  What really gets up my nose is the TV commentator immediately saying it looked like Toby was just going to one of his mates or something similar.  Instantly finding excuses for a star player when blind freedy could see he was in deep discussion with the umpire and had no regard to his team mates at all.  Typical.