Three years makes a difference

[leave it to deever 17,400]

Just because I can't get enough of footy talk I thought I put this out for the true football brains trust to determine.

Is this team better than the 2018 team and why?

Lever and May to say the obvious one but what else?

 

[Gorgoroth 12,656]

We we on a roll in 2018 with a new scheme that caught the AFL by surprise. 
This year we are a team that grind teams down and put the pressure on them and squeezes. If we get the scoring part higher… skys the limit.

[Demonland 70,022]

14 hours ago, leave it to deever said:

Just because I can't get enough of footy talk I thought I put this out for the true football brains trust to determine.

Is this team better than the 2018 team and why?

Lever and May to say the obvious one but what else?

 

Lever and May instead of OMac and Frost.

No contest.

Brown over Weideman. Weid was fantastic in the Elimination Final against Geelong but has never recaptured that form. I have a lot more confidence in Brown.

Petracca has taken his game to Elite levels and Oliver has taken it to the level above Elite.

Langdon over any warm body played on the wing.

Players that no longer play at the club but played finals in 2018:

OMac

Frost

Lewis

Hannan

Tyson

Players Not Currently in the Team but played in finals in 2018

Jones

Hibberd

Melksham

vandenBerg

Jetta

Weideman

New Players to the club since 2018 that are currently in the team to play finals

Kozzy

Jackson

Jordon

Sparrow

Petty

Bowey

May

Lever (correction - was at the club but out of finals with knee injury)

Langdon

Rivers

Hunt was at the club but did not play finals - currently injured

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,624]

2018 we just scrapped into the finals and from memory had hardly won a game against a team in the top 8.

2021 we hace finished top of the lot, not only had a finals birth secured early, but top 4 as well, which has ment we haven't had to cruel players carrying significant injuries into finals without being able to manage them throughout the season (on which note, we now also have a Burgo).  2021 we hace beaten every team in the top 8 during the regular season.

I also think our maturity, disipline to play to team structures and belief as team is poles apart 2018 to 2021.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[Gawndy the Great 9,008]

5 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Lever and May instead of OMac and Frost.

No contest.

Brown over Weideman. Weid was fantastic in the Elimination Final against Geelong but has never recaptured that form. I have a lot more confidence in Brown.

Petracca has taken his game to Elite levels and Oliver has taken it to the level above Elite.

Langdon over any warm body played on the wing.

Players that no longer play at the club but played finals in 2018:

OMac

Frost

Lewis

Hannan

Tyson

Players Not Currently in the Team but played in finals in 2018

Jones

Hibberd

Melksham

vandenBerg

Jetta

Weideman

New Players to the club since 2018 that are currently in the team to play finals

Kozzy

Jackson

Jordon

Sparrow

Petty

Bowey

May

Lever

Langdon

Rivers

Hunt was at the club but did not play finals - currently injured

When you look at that we have definitely improved the bottom 5, added youth, pushed the avg skill lvl / capability profile upwards added to the list of bone fide super stars (Gawn, +Trac, +Oliver and Lever, May knocking on the door )

 

[Bay Riffin 1,452]

good question. Ive watched every game and replays and here are my reasons in order:

1. Less 'bees to a honeypot' wtih some additional outside run. Go look at our big game losses that year to pies in the queens birthday and the preliminary final. Our opponents spread and we got burnt badly.
2. We are much better defensively, both in personnel with May and Lever and team defence (although team defence was above average back then)
3. the folk group from 2019 - Jackson Rivers and Pickett. not only really good recruits but balance us out and added a strength to our greatest weakness in the small forward area.
4. midfield improving their output and connection. a lot less standing under Gawn but mixing it up and sacrificing roles for the team. also spreading more.
5. more recently Big Ben Brown who keeps hitting the scoreboard.

 

 

[leave it to deever 17,400]

5 minutes ago, Demonland said:

Players that no longer play

Frost was a big part of our success that year but it was always heart in mouth stuff. Id forgotten until we played hawks first time this year.

Omac.. well Ill keep quiet.

Im glad you think Bbb is an improvement because I think he has been very good and perhaps will be a wildcard in the finals like Weid was.

But the maturity of our Mids is a big difference as well as Langdon who I feel is finally back to his old form.

[Demonland 70,022]

1 minute ago, leave it to deever said:

Frost was a big part of our success that year but it was always heart in mouth stuff. Id forgotten until we played hawks first time this year.

True but I'd take May, Lever or Petty over Frosty any day of the week.

[Wrecker46 2,858]

All of the above plus Oooooooooooze

We can go in at half time getting thumped and he shifts a few things around and we win.

Not just against Geelong it happened last time we played Brisbane as well.

[640MD 3,290]

I will put up one more

Four Rising star nominations

 

one should win it this year and Bowey will win it next year

A young group ready to fly......

[Dr. Gonzo 23,623]

It's not just the personnel (although that of course helps) it's the structure. Our players have matured and now play to a defensive structure which is the best I've ever seen of a Demons side.

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

I don't think we can underestimate the impact Burgo has had both on overall fitness and on the injury list. 

Choco also seems to have had a really significant impact on the young boys and the foot skills of the broader playing group. 

and lastly Goody, three years of experience and growing as a coach can only be a good thing for the playing group (and clarry and tracc's interview on saturday certainly speak to that). 

[Deeoldfart 7,987]

Selfless "team' football!

[Chook 14,986]

Wish we had 2018 Melksham on our list. 2018 Viney would be nice. 2018 Hogan would slot in as long as his attitude defensively is ok. 2018 McDonald edges 2021 McDonald, so I'd pick him too over the 2021 variety.

Aside from that, 2021 Demons have winners on every line and a far superior gameplan.

I think the running in waves we did in that year could catch 2021 Melbourne off-guard on a bad day, but 2021 Demons win 9/10 IMO.

Either way, I think the Demons would win.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

New Players to the club since 2018 that are currently in the team to play finals

 

Lever

Lever was actually with us in 2018, but out injured.

[rpfc 27,990]

Trust.

[leave it to deever 17,400]

50 minutes ago, Chook said:

Wish we had 2018 Melksham on our list. 2018 Viney would be nice. 2018 Hogan would slot in as long as his attitude defensively is ok. 2018 McDonald edges 2021 McDonald, so I'd pick him too over the 2021 variety.

Aside from that, 2021 Demons have winners on every line and a far superior gameplan.

I think the running in waves we did in that year could catch 2021 Melbourne off-guard on a bad day, but 2021 Demons win 9/10 IMO.

Either way, I think the Demons would win.

Great post Chook.

He was in his best form circa 2018.  I was always surprised how fast he was.

And Hogan was awesome. Also Garlett. When those two were firing as was Tmac we had a powerful forward line.

But we had no Fritta or Bbb.

Edited August 24, 2021 by leave it to deever

[leave it to deever 17,400]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

True but I'd take May, Lever or Petty over Frosty any day of the week.

Frostys style was the opposite of Levers calmness😁

[jnrmac 19,873]

2018 we belted a few sides and played a manic 'get the ball i50' game. But we were one of the easiest sides to score against.

We often got beaten out the back, sides would push us into the contest and feed off us on the outside.

And when the ball went into our d50 we were 17th in one on ones with Frost and OMac.

Blindly obvious we have to get ourselves some quality defenders (no matter how many nuffies here tried to defend OMac and Frost). We got em at a high cost (that looks good value now) and we are a vastly different team.

Now our scores come mainly from turnover and defence rather than contest. And we are number 1 for tackles i50.

 

We are very hard to score against. That wins finals.

[Guest]

While Goody would be loathe to admit it, all the problems could be seen in the prelim loss to the Eagles:

1) ‘Steadytime’ beats ‘Showtime’ in our case.

But, as Saturday night showed (and against the Lions), we can still turn it on should the situation demand. Insanely fast, ‘chaos’ football isn’t employed unless we need goals, and fast.

Quick, but considered and deliberate forward fifty entries makes it harder for teams with intercepting backs like Shooter McGovern and his mate McLovin to pick us off. Plus having a genuine contesting forward BBB in there helps exponentially. If we do have to bomb kick it, he will at least have a crack at it and get the ball to ground.

That being said, it was the last piece of the equation to fall into place as we had problems with this mid year with F50 entry and BBB was still in the magoos at the time.

2) The backs have been covered better by others. Let’s just say that the likes of Darling and Kennedy/Hawkins and Cameron fear Lever and May over Frostball and OMac. Furthermore, the former backline’s delivery out of the back half is incomparably better, making repeat entries less likely.

3) A second ruck option has been enormous. Remember in that final that West Coast tag teamed Max with Lycett and Vardy, and had one of them cover him when he dropped back to take relieving marks at half back. Max didn’t have near the impact he’d been having.

Dogga’s best is yet to come, and he’ll be first ruckman in 3 to 4 years. But his role as a backup and resting forward can’t be underestimated. Furthermore, he is a different style of ruck. While Max’s last quarter against the Cats got him close to BOG (save for Clarry), it wouldn’t be unfair to say that Stanley’s athleticism wasn’t giving him trouble. In these cases, having a change of style is the perfect antidote to this.

4) Better skills since Choco arrived play a part. While we had skillful players like Clarry and Tracc, there was no cognizance to what they were doing. It was a case of getting it forward and hoping it would land in the right spot. Sometimes it would pay off but in that prelim, the Eagles backs eyes lit up at the prospect of this and were able to get back where they needed to,

Saturday night saw our blokes kick aggressively at times, but it was considered aggression based on an improved skill base.

You can team this up with a fantastic fitness base (built through mid season).

All four areas were key as to why we got opened up as badly as we did that day. While they didn’t watch and review the game, 2 years of observation have gotten them to identify what went so wrong that day.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Colin B. Flaubert

[FritschyBusiness 1,463]

98% of the improvement has been between the ears of the players and their change of attitude.

The other 2% is Mark Williams

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,624]

On a related tangent, got to love the contrast in how the MFC and CFC management have gone about their respective coaching/football department reviews.  The context for this is last season everyone was saying what a great build Carlton were going through,  they were a team on the rise and had surpassed everything Melbourne had put together since 2018. 

We were having a somewhat below average 2020, but probably not that dissimilar to what Carlton had in the first half of 2021, where were compeditive with all the good teams, but just couldn't chalk up the wins on the board.  If I recall correctly, mid 2020 there was a short sharp football department review, from which a few coaching positions were shuffled around, but hardly any mass leaks, haemorrhaging and disgruntlement within the club.  In fact, post that reveiw the team actually seemed to come closer together, even though we suffered the horror Cairns capitulation.  If you hear our playing group talk, they all pretty much unanimously will state that we built on the foundations our current game style and culture throughout the back half of 2020.

Contrast that to the drawn out mid season review process that has occurred at Carlton and the affect that has had on their season and position as a footy club.

Hats off to Garry Pert and Co, Allan Richardson and Goody for the way they negotiated those challenging times for our club.  Similarly, the transition from Glen Bartlett to Kate Roffey has been smooth and undisruptive compared to what's going on at Collingwood.   If you look at where we have come from in the past, its amazing to look at what a professionally managed club we have become.  Due credit to Roosy and Peter Jackson as well for turning things around from where they were and setting up the foundations.

It's often been said that good off feild management and stability is required to produce sucess on-feild and I think that's also a key part to what's playing out for us right now too.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[drdrake 3,105]

Moving T McDonald to the forward line in 2018 was the start of our charge, we just gained confidence that we could out score out opposition, bit like the way Daniher coached, take the game on attack.

We have built an amazing backline to compliment our mids and we just squeeze the life out of sides.  We need T Mac or B Brown to really step up in the finals, you just need scoreboard pressure.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,640]

60+ more games of experience, particularly 60+ more games of playing with essentially the same teammates.

The stability of the playing list, coaching panel (albeit with some changes) and admin (again, with some changes, but well managed) has also helped.

[Satan 2,854]

The kickout rule change  has helped us . Salem and May are accurate kicks . Their kicks are landing near the centre or wings max , jackon and Tmac are either marking them or the mids and wings are getting to spills . Near the wings the ball is often going over the boundary line , letting the players reset.