POSTGAME: Rd 16 vs GWS

[At the break of Gawn 4,460]

30 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

We lost to a good in form side. However the season is heating up. Well done Goody so far. You have surprised some of us. Congrats. Time to regroup, harden up, get selection right and have a red hot go at our best chance for nearly sixty years. 

Good in form side? They lost to the Hawks last week and drew with North recently.

They are a backs to the wall side, but they were certainly not in form. It was two teams in bad form coming up against each other.

[joeboy 3,166]

Are we the worst ever top of the ladder team?

[SPC 3,549]

What today has shown me is the TMAC is a good CHF who should be pushed further up the ground. We need actual goal scorers, not makeshift pressure forwards. Having 8-10 goal scorers a game is great, but we need someone who is a threat for defenders. Either of the Browns could fill that spot.

[Optimus D 283]

Obviously our players do not like playing in cold conditions. Perhaps we should have a strategic apparel plan in place to ensure that the players wear long sleeves on such occasions. This may help them warm up a bit sooner and save supporters the angst of watching quarter after quarter of abysmal football. I'm sure that there is a lessen to be learnt here.

[DeeZone 9,842]

Agree wholeheartedly SPC we went small again and got smashed again what are the coaches looking at, it is Time Dees, pull the trigger if it’s not Sam or Ben it has to be Mitch, just make the call before we get smashed Again.!!!!!

[John Crow Batty 8,863]

15 minutes ago, joeboy said:

Are we the worst ever top of the ladder team?

I suspect opposition sides think so. When any side from 2nd to 18th think they have a chance against us and play accordingly they must believe it. Again today we started passively and let the opposition dictate the shape of how the game played. I detect some arrogance and hubris in the way we play expecting our defence to win games no matter what the opposition does. The big  problem is our scoring has dried up significantly.  Only 25 goals scored in the past 3 games. We need a huge reset in our attacking game. We are starting to look like Ross Lyons Fremantle teams.

Edited July 3, 2021 by John Crow Batty

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

36 minutes ago, BW511 said:

I’ll go one step further and reiterate a point I made during the week, the Gawn/Jackson combo is taking away one of our strengths (Gawn) and is also robbing our forward line.

In the preseason I wanted to play Jacko at all costs and he was good today, but it’s at the expense of the best ruckman in the comp and another permanent forward player.

I think I’d rather play Gawn solo and have T-Mac giving Max a chop out - for now

BB in and Sparrow out today allows additional options BW.  You can rotate Gawn and Dogga in the ruck but also allow mostly Dogga to play a higher percentage as a forward but generally less game time so he's playing in bursts.  Better option for a rookie?  He changes up on occasions with BB for the bench / rest and giving the opp a different look up forward.

BB offers the lead anywhere out to 50 and even a tad higher on occasions.  He can also go deeper if he and Dogga are both on with Gawn in the ruck.  Dogga taking CHF for a bit where his mobility/clever distribution of the pill & ground ball pressure come into play.   From there Dogga can also push back to the goal square when BB is taking a shot from long range, offering the smalls a potential crumb/snap if the kick falls short.  Or he might take the occasional contested and goal himself (wishful thinking at the mo).

Gawn can also drop back for the chop out across HB on more occasions with Dogga taking the ruck and another KF (BB) handling the tall marking target role up forward.  Means he is not really needed here and might possibly have more impact.  Handy to slow momentum (opp on a roll) and / or keep momentum (icing a lead late in a quarter or end of a match).

Macca also gets the opp's second best defender where he seems to perform a little better.

Edited July 3, 2021 by Rusty Nails

[640MD 3,376]

just my thoughts,

GWS were much better than us for the first three quarters, we finally played with a bit of spirit in the last but it was far too late. 

They deserved their win despite that umpire in front of me in the last making three errors in a row inside our F50. and despite of us not having a target to kick to in that last quarter,   but for those wondering why the media do not take our efforts seriously  watch this game again.  Thought we only had 2 reasonable players, very disappointed,  We did not come to play.

[rpfc 28,433]

I also think we have too many kids in the team - it may not be solvable but jeez when they struggle they can all struggle.

[cookieboc 776]

36 minutes ago, joeboy said:

Are we the worst ever top of the ladder team?

exactly what I said to my mate after the game. doesn't bode well. 

[Earl Hood 6,086]

I thought having Yze in this year as midfield coach would finally allow us to take full advantage of our obvious strengths, that is best ruck, Gawn delivering to AA players like Oliver and Petracca, with Viney, Harmes, and add cameos from Kozzie, Sparrow and Melksham. That in centre bounces we would learn to read Gawns taps and flick the ball around to find a mid free and running toward goal like we used to see with the Cats and Hawks great midfield groups so often. And like we managed in 2018. Instead we have got to the point where we are getting smashed most weeks at centre clearances and battling to compensate elsewhere against good sides. 
 

interested in thoughts about how to reset the midfield, especially at centre bounces. Viney is struggling, he goes out or maybe goes forward as a defensive forward, in place of Kozzie, who needs a rest or Spargo, ditto. Do we bring Brayshaw back into the midfield and LJ goes to the wing and Max does more time as ruck, less forward, assuming BB comes in as a forward target? So many ways to reshuffle but if we continued to get smashed in the centre we won’t win against good sides. 

[cookieboc 776]

it was arrogance that cost us this game, at selection and at the game

[Boots and all 1,000]

2 hours ago, jnrmac said:

V good summary. Would add that we went back to the 'Bees to the honeypot' style where the ball would come out of a contest and they would pick it off.

 

Very disappointing game. first half was the lowest pressure rating we have had all year.

Bees to the honeypot...absolutely nailed it. I was amazed during the Tigers game, the level of confidence each player had in their team mate. Often, a single player was contesting the ball at any given time and there seemed to be an understanding of who would be next to the contest. The process was clean and ordered. At present, we have teamates colliding and jumping over one another to get the ball. This seems to indicate a lack of trust in each other, at least that's how it appears.

[loges 6,767]

33 minutes ago, At the break of Gawn said:

Good in form side? They lost to the Hawks last week and drew with North recently.

They are a backs to the wall side, but they were certainly not in form. It was two teams in bad form coming up against each other.

People need to stop saying GWS are a good side, as you say lost to Hawks drew with North.. Essendon are not a good side, smashed by Geelong, neither are Collingwood or Adelaide, There's a disturbing pattern over the past few weeks, venture to say neither are we at the moment. How's the forward line going, sort out who's going to play the key ford spot FFS we've been talking about forward line problems since 2019. Such a poor decision not to play BB this week.

[Pipefitter 2,159]

 Completely arrogant team selection not bringing ben brown in. We needed a target in the last quarter badly.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

4 hours ago, Jaded said:

GWS may be 10th but they are a good side and they played very very well. Their midfield is absolutely elite and destroyed us inside and on the outside. Absolute credit to them. 

They are a good side who couldn't beat North or the Hawks in the last couple of weeks.

It seemed as though our players weren't up for it today, either turned up expecting the win or just didn't want to work hard enough. Smashed around the clearances, lazy on forward half pressure, shanked some easy opportunities for goal and panicked in the last quarter when we had momentum but just continually blazed away. Hunt was frustrating getting caught three times but at least he was trying to create something - I was far more frustrated with Max trying to snap it around the corner from 50 out on the boundary and having another wayward blaze away at goal. You are our captain FFS show some composure when the rest are losing their heads. Settle down and spot up a target or chip it around til one presents.

We just played lazy all day and I could forgive it if its a one off but we've played this way since the Lions game - we were lucky to get away with it last week.

If it weren't for May and Lever we would be losing comfortably each week. It would frustrate me no end seeing the players up the field continue to stuff up the good work.

[Clayton van Oliver 1,823]

I think it was a good, long term ploy to get Richmond out of the eight. Worst thing about this kind of loss is that it gives the wrist slashers reason to clean the cobwebs off their keyboards and foist the extremities of MFCSS on the rest of us. The thing is, we ARE still top of the ladder, not sitting 5th like many seem to think. Obviously there are things to work on, but the beauty of having 10 straight wins to start the season is that we can afford to be exposed now, rather than at the pointy end when it will really matter. Call me an optimist, but once you’ve done that, go check out the ladder again.

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

I'm actually happy we'll lose the #1 spot this week. We're not a true #1 (ladder leaders have losses, but they don't lose to THREE bottom eight sides in just over a month. GWS struggled against the bottom two sides in the league.

Plus, being #1 doesn't suit us, the boys have clearly gotten ahead of themselves. Hopefully they rediscover the hunger they had at the beginning of the season. Quick. Because time is running out. As is the ever enduring forward problem. Bring in either Brown. Anyone really, just not another midget.

Not a bad time to be out of form, gives us a chance to build momentum. But that depends on the boys recognising where they're actually at (except most of our defenders), and working their backsides off to get to where we need to be.

We need top 4, top 2 is going to be hard. It goes without saying that we need to turn 180 to beat Port.

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

4 hours ago, deegirl said:

We cannot expect to win games when we’ve got players in the forward line contributing nothing. Spargo, Pickett & ANB all did nothing today. Unfortunately the gap between their best and their worst is massive. 

Their job is to pressure and harass so to make sure the oppo has no clear exits from our 50. Can't remember when it was but at one stage today (I think it was in the 3rd) we had 2 tackles inside 50 to their 7. 2! That is unacceptable, if we don't mark it forward we need to pressure and harass to keep it in or make the oppo defense kick dump kicks that we can chop off.

I don't think any of them will get dropped but it is a huge reason why we aren't the team we were earlier in the year.

[Red But Mostly Blue 4,547]

5 minutes ago, AmDamDemon said:

I think it was a good, long term ploy to get Richmond out of the eight. Worst thing about this kind of loss is that it gives the wrist slashers reason to clean the cobwebs off their keyboards and foist the extremities of MFCSS on the rest of us. The thing is, we ARE still top of the ladder, not sitting 5th like many seem to think. Obviously there are things to work on, but the beauty of having 10 straight wins to start the season is that we can afford to be exposed now, rather than at the pointy end when it will really matter. Call me an optimist, but once you’ve done that, go check out the ladder again.

I love your optimism, I really do.

But the reality is some of these posts (not all), really are trying to address some of the things that have not been working for quite a while. There has been a steady decline but there's this tendency to rest on our ladder position. That can't last forever. 

I played with the ladder predictor...

With the games played this round, and the likely wins next round, if we lose to Port, depending on percentage , we could actually be 5th!!

Then all of a sudden we're out of the 4 and having to scrap to get back in, against very tough opposition, with a bunch of players who still think they're number one!

... And we're dreadfully out of form/confidence.

[Pennant St Dee 13,173]

4 hours ago, roy11 said:

The last holding the ball for Hunt, you could tell he wanted options. We were too static for large periods today 

Sorry Max was at the back of the goal square with a smaller opponent guarding the top of the square and a lead. The quick high ball to the advantage of Max was ridiculously obvious but Hunt just kept running

[Dr. Gonzo 24,219]

3 hours ago, jnrmac said:

GWS had 2 players 5m from TMac when taking his shot on goal. The protected zone is 10m

Brayshaw had a GWS player waltz past 3m away. WHen the ump called play on he tackled Brayshaw. That is a 50m every day of the week.

Mumford ducks with the ball in the centre and collects Gawn's knee. Free Mumford, i50 shot on goal

There were at least another 10 I can recall but can't be bothered detailing. 

Hopeless as usual.

Fritsch was being scragged every time we went forward as well, particularly in the final quarter. Can't blame the umpires when we turn in that dross though (we are not Essendon supporters after all)

[Adam The God 30,259]

Although I think Brown should play next week, that's two weeks in a row that we've had 10 or more marks inside 50 with a smaller forwardline. So we actually lowered the eyes well on a number of occasions, particularly early in today's game. Our forwards couldn't convert. That was the problem. Petracca, Fritsch and McDonald all missed simple shots that they would normally get. 

A quick further word on McDonald. He is a supremely frustrating player. His confidence is clearly shot off the back of only one or two poor games. That's all that it's taken to have our best set shot kick attempting that stupid snap around the corner. He was never going to kick that. It was always going to the left. 

We're now in an unfortunate but near desperate position of needing Brown to take the first/best defender and allowing McDonald to play second fiddle and Fritsch third. McDonald is far too inconsistent and flakey to be relied upon in big finals.

I'm sure others have already written such things this year about Tom, but I was hoping a guy whose career is on the line at 28, could put a consistent 22 game season together. He won't. And now we must rely on a Ben Brown, who might take a few weeks to get up to speed again, to take the heat so McDonald can recapture some kind of form.

And damn we miss Kozzy's creativeness and forward pressure. When he's absent we lack forward spark.

[layzie 33,805]

1 hour ago, rpfc said:

I also think we have too many kids in the team - it may not be solvable but jeez when they struggle they can all struggle.

We certainly had a lot of ‘rookie’ moments. 

[Ethan Tremblay 30,861]

GWS aren’t a bad team, it’s a ridiculously close competition and we lost by nine points. Calm down.