Did Jimmy Stynes ever cop racial abuse ?

[Little Goffy 14,398]

I guess the key question in drawing a line between 'a bit of a laugh' and abuse is; was Stynes made to feel that he would get different treatment as far as training resources, umpiring, team selection, security on the list, being able to do his job without being bashed, having his property vandalised?

Clearly he was. Realistically it would have affected his performance. How much better might this champion have been if he hadn't had to commit part of his indomitable will to overcoming this pissiness?

Would it have affected his early development and understanding of the game enough for him to not make a certain little mistake?

[Biffen 12,940]

My navel is free of fluff.

[pinkshark 950]

On 2/8/2021 at 7:25 PM, faultydet said:

http://classic.austlii.edu.au/au/legis/cth/consol_act/rda1975202/s9.html#:~:text=(1) It is unlawful for,of any human right or

(1) It is unlawful for a person to do any act involving a distinction, exclusion, restriction or preference based on race, colour, descent or national or ethnic origin which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of any human right or .

So when living in England and my pommie mates called me a stupid Australian so and so, that was racist?  Bwaahhahah!

 

[daisycutter 29,596]

3 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

So when living in England and my pommie mates called me a stupid Australian so and so, that was racist?  Bwaahhahah!

 

yes, bruce

[faultydet 7,594]

4 hours ago, pinkshark said:

So when living in England and my pommie mates called me a stupid Australian so and so, that was racist?  Bwaahhahah!

 

We can all argue about what is racist in our own minds, but i simply quoted the law. It is what it is, like it or not.

 

I long for a time when skin was not so thin.

[Ethan Tremblay 30,798]

4 hours ago, pinkshark said:

So when living in England and my pommie mates called me a stupid Australian so and so, that was racist?  Bwaahhahah!

 

No, that piece of legislation is Australian. It’s a free for all in the UK. 

[pinkshark 950]

14 hours ago, faultydet said:

We can all argue about what is racist in our own minds, but i simply quoted the law. It is what it is, like it or not.

 

I long for a time when skin was not so thin.

I long for a time when skin colour is not noticed.

[forever demons 2,216]

6 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

I long for a time when skin colour is not noticed.

Thats like saying you long for a time when height is not noticed,it just wont happen.Its not the colour of the skin its about racism of the persons race.You cant change colour although Michael Jackson tried to

[Little Goffy 14,398]

2 hours ago, pinkshark said:

I long for a time when skin colour is not noticed.

 

1 hour ago, forever demons said:

Thats like saying you long for a time when height is not noticed,it just wont happen.Its not the colour of the skin its about racism of the persons race.You cant change colour although Michael Jackson tried to

Surely noticed as in 'noted'.

In the Shakespearean sense. As, "I looked upon her, but I did not note her." 

Which is much the same point as made by the second half of the law excerpt that Faulty quoted above and which many seem to not have noticed. (In the Shakespearean sense, again, to be clear)

"...which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of any human right or..."

Skin gets decided thinner no matter who you are when that part of the equation is introduced.

 

[forever demons 2,216]

6 minutes ago, Little Goffy said:

 

Surely noticed as in 'noted'.

In the Shakespearean sense. As, "I looked upon her, but I did not note her." 

Which is much the same point as made by the second half of the law excerpt that Faulty quoted above and which many seem to not have noticed. (In the Shakespearean sense, again, to be clear)

"...which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of any human right or..."

Skin gets decided thinner no matter who you are when that part of the equation is introduced.

 

I got a headache reading that,good grief

[pinkshark 950]

8 hours ago, Little Goffy said:

 

Surely noticed as in 'noted'.

In the Shakespearean sense. As, "I looked upon her, but I did not note her." 

Which is much the same point as made by the second half of the law excerpt that Faulty quoted above and which many seem to not have noticed. (In the Shakespearean sense, again, to be clear)

"...which has the purpose or effect of nullifying or impairing the recognition, enjoyment or exercise, on an equal footing, of any human right or..."

Skin gets decided thinner no matter who you are when that part of the equation is introduced.

 

Ummm...

Yes.  I should have said noted.  Was just trying to say that I wish there was no racism. I'm not racist.  I don't get it.  I love everyone.  Seriously.  

In the Calvin Harrisean sense:

I like them black girls, I like them white girls,  I like them asian girls, I like them mixed-race girls, I like them Spanish girls, I like them Italian girls, I like them french girls, and I like scandinavian girls, I like them tall girls, I like them short girls, I like them brown-haired girls, I like them them blond haired girls, I like them big girls, I like them skinny girls, I like them carrying a little-bitty weight girls....

 

[daisycutter 29,596]

45 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Ummm...

Yes.  I should have said noted.  Was just trying to say that I wish there was no racism. I'm not racist.  I don't get it.  I love everyone.  Seriously.  

In the Calvin Harrisean sense:

I like them black girls, I like them white girls,  I like them asian girls, I like them mixed-race girls, I like them Spanish girls, I like them Italian girls, I like them french girls, and I like scandinavian girls, I like them tall girls, I like them short girls, I like them brown-haired girls, I like them them blond haired girls, I like them big girls, I like them skinny girls, I like them carrying a little-bitty weight girls....

 

tread carefully, ps. i don't think the term "girls" is acceptable now ?

[pinkshark 950]

14 hours ago, daisycutter said:

tread carefully, ps. i don't think the term "girls" is acceptable now ?

Fair enough Daisycutter.  Sadly you are probably right.  Slap on wrist reluctantly accepted.  Only because the world has gone bonkers/soft and humourless.    

Did I get a pass mark for my opening remarks before quoting Harris?

ps.  It is a good song though.  

[daisycutter 29,596]

20 minutes ago, pinkshark said:

Fair enough Daisycutter.  Sadly you are probably right.  Slap on wrist reluctantly accepted.  Only because the world has gone bonkers/soft and humourless.    

Did I get a pass mark for my opening remarks before quoting Harris?

ps.  It is a good song though.  

'twas tongue in cheek (you probably guessed)

the english language is fast becoming non-functional....lol

[Cranky Franky 2,012]

It was Gavin Wanganeen - Round 9 1997 v Port Adelaide   See Bottom line.

As I recall it he called Jim "a dumb Irish cu**.  The umpire heard it & asked Jim if he wanted to take the matter further & Jim declined.

Glad to see Gavin repented & went on to be a good citizen but  this seems to rarely come up these days whereas the Monkhorst & other incidents are well remembered.

From Demon Wiki. Melbourne's first match against the Power was the last for coach Neale Balme. The former coach of the year had seen his season destroyed by injuries and a night where his side managed just three goals was the final straw for Joseph Gutnick who, despite public support for Balme from Chief Executive Cameron Schwab, sacked him during the week.

Without any other options Balme was forced to set his forward line up around Jeff Farmer and Sean Charles, but without marking targets Melbourne were unable to score a goal in the first half. It didn't help when they lost Charles to injury in the first quarter, but having not kicked a goal since the seven minute mark of the third term the week before, they failed to boot one until eight minutes into the third quarter when Leigh Newton converted a set shot.

Best were Clarkson, Donald Cockatoo-Collins and Stynes. Donald Cockatoo-Collins was suspended for two matches for headbutting. Damien Gaspar was reported for charging but cleared.

During the match Gavin Wanganeen was accused of racially abusing Jim Stynes, but Stynes chose not to press charges with the AFL.

 

[faultydet 7,594]

1 hour ago, Cranky Franky said:

It was Gavin Wanganeen - Round 9 1997 v Port Adelaide   See Bottom line.

As I recall it he called Jim "a dumb Irish cu**.  The umpire heard it & asked Jim if he wanted to take the matter further & Jim declined.

Glad to see Gavin repented & went on to be a good citizen but  this seems to rarely come up these days whereas the Monkhorst & other incidents are well remembered.

From Demon Wiki. Melbourne's first match against the Power was the last for coach Neale Balme. The former coach of the year had seen his season destroyed by injuries and a night where his side managed just three goals was the final straw for Joseph Gutnick who, despite public support for Balme from Chief Executive Cameron Schwab, sacked him during the week.

Without any other options Balme was forced to set his forward line up around Jeff Farmer and Sean Charles, but without marking targets Melbourne were unable to score a goal in the first half. It didn't help when they lost Charles to injury in the first quarter, but having not kicked a goal since the seven minute mark of the third term the week before, they failed to boot one until eight minutes into the third quarter when Leigh Newton converted a set shot.

Best were Clarkson, Donald Cockatoo-Collins and Stynes. Donald Cockatoo-Collins was suspended for two matches for headbutting. Damien Gaspar was reported for charging but cleared.

During the match Gavin Wanganeen was accused of racially abusing Jim Stynes, but Stynes chose not to press charges with the AFL.

 

Irish is not a race, therefore i dont believe he was racially abused. If Wanganeen said "you dumb white cu**" it's a different matter.

Glad Jim didn't take it further.

 

 

[Cranky Franky 2,012]

3 hours ago, faultydet said:

 

 

Interesting take.

So as long as you abuse but do not mention the person's race or colour then its not racial abuse ?

Edited August 8, 2021 by george_on_the_outer

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Cranky Franky said:

 

I don’t know if you’d call that racial abuse. What I do know is it sucks to be on the receiving end of it. I was a kid when my family came here from Ireland. Schools are different nowadays (thank goodness) but in 1970 there was no holding back. I copped so much [censored] from kids at school, it was unbearable. I still to this day occasionally have a bad dream about it. 
Thing is, I didn’t look any different to the other kids (red hair and freckles, so I already had a whole other source of grief  😂) but I spoke with an accent and was relentlessly teased for it to the point of choosing to be mute for the first year at school. I only spoke when I absolutely had no choice. 
Phew, haven’t discussed that with anyone in ages. Awesome to have an opportunity to vent. Thanks DL. ❤️
Incidentally, it didn’t help that on Day One at school the teacher asked me what the answer to a maths question was (the answer was 23 and a third) and I said “twenty tree and a [censored].” The laughter was deafening and seemingly endless. So yeah, seems funny now. Certainly wasn’t back then. 

edit: the censored word starts with T and rhymes with Word. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by george_on_the_outer

[faultydet 7,594]

38 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

Interesting take.

So as long as you abuse but do not mention the person's race or colour then its not racial abuse ?

I abused my opponents while playing footy.

So I'm racist?

 

The lengths some people will go to in order to find "racism"

[Tony Tea 2,806]

Jim probably copped most abuse from his coach, Slug Jordan.

[Cranky Franky 2,012]

Its ironic that an Indigenous player racially abuses an Irish player.

Its also interesting that this episode has been pretty much deleted from the record.

Double standard maybe.

 

[DubDee 25,436]

Yeah I was complaining about being picked on for being Irish at school when my friend who happens to be brown said that’s not racism it’s discrimination. Although I was annoyed when she said it, she is completely correct. 

although it hurts to be picked on about what country you come from and your accent, I don’t think it would compare to racial abuse where your skin colour and origins are insulted. i.e, you are derived from monkeys or something which would cut so deep

thats my take anyway

[Tom Dyson 1,633]

52 minutes ago, DubDee said:

Yeah I was complaining about being picked on for being Irish at school when my friend who happens to be brown said that’s not racism it’s discrimination. Although I was annoyed when she said it, she is completely correct. 

although it hurts to be picked on about what country you come from and your accent, I don’t think it would compare to racial abuse where your skin colour and origins are insulted. i.e, you are derived from monkeys or something which would cut so deep

thats my take anyway

Me being called an orangutan my whole schooling for having red hair. 😬 (Sarcasm intended, I don't actually think I was the subject of racist attacks), if anything I'm grateful for it because it gave me a thicker skin and helped me to learn to take a joke. 

I remember the school excursion to the zoo was open day on all the red heads in my class. 

Edited August 8, 2021 by Tom Dyson

[daisycutter 29,596]

1 hour ago, DubDee said:

Yeah I was complaining about being picked on for being Irish at school when my friend who happens to be brown said that’s not racism it’s discrimination. Although I was annoyed when she said it, she is completely correct. 

although it hurts to be picked on about what country you come from and your accent, I don’t think it would compare to racial abuse where your skin colour and origins are insulted. i.e, you are derived from monkeys or something which would cut so deep

thats my take anyway

Quote

Racism takes many forms and can happen in many places. It includes prejudice, discrimination or hatred directed at someone because of their colour, ethnicity or national origin.

People often associate racism with acts of abuse or harassment. However, it doesn’t need to involve violent or intimidating behaviour. Take racial name-calling and jokes. Or consider situations when people may be excluded from groups or activities because of where they come from.

Racism can be revealed through people’s actions as well as their attitudes. It can also be reflected in systems and institutions. But sometimes it may not be revealed at all. Not all racism is obvious. For example, someone may look through a list of job applicants and decide not to interview people with certain surnames.

Racism is more than just words, beliefs and actions. It includes all the barriers that prevent people from enjoying dignity and equality because of their race.

Read more: https://itstopswithme.humanrights.gov.au/about-racism

you could possibly add culture and religion too

Edited August 8, 2021 by daisycutter

[Little Goffy 14,398]

8 hours ago, faultydet said:

Irish is not a race, therefore i dont believe he was racially abused. If Wanganeen said "you dumb white cu**" it's a different matter.

Glad Jim didn't take it further.

 

You did what with the hey now?

Do you mean aside from being recognisable through language, accent, culture, self-identification, traceable genetics and even prevalent observable physical characteristics, given formal power by centuries of quite vicious discrimination, exploitation and oppression justified by claims of inherent Irish 'backwardness' and inferiority of 'the Irish race'?