On SEN, Lewis made the comment that Kossie was comparable to Cyril at the same age ?

I also remember him saying our young list was comparable to Hawthorns at the similar stage when he come over.

 

Edited January 20, 20215 yr by Fork 'em

31 minutes ago, joeboy said:

On SEN, Lewis made the comment that Kossie was comparable to Cyril at the same age ?

The expectation might be high however he has exquisite talent and a year under his belt will do him good. Lewis is  well respected has  the knowledge  to  compare Kossie.

I hope Lewis is right  because we might be in for an exciting year. 

I'm often wondering whether Cyril was an out and out super star or slightly overrated.

He definitely won some games for the Hawks, big ones too, but he was very quiet in a lot more games.

I think there's less and less room for players like that as each year goes by

 

 

I’m not sure it’s helpful comparing a youngster to a legend. Creates unrealistic expectations and puts unnecessary pressure on the young mans shoulders.

Kozzie is very talented for sure but best to avoid the comparisons imo and let the kid develop in his own time.

1 hour ago, joeboy said:

On SEN, Lewis made the comment that Kossie was comparable to Cyril at the same age ?

Laughable comment and totally unhelpful. 

Just now, poita said:

Laughable comment and totally unhelpful. 

Yours or his?

Ah, pre-season. At the same age, Cyril had been one of the best afield in a premiership team. Not to take anything away from Kozzie, but geez that's an unhelpful comparison.

I never get the 'Cyril was overrated' crowd. If he's overrated, so is every other small forward to ever play the game. Sure it was infuriating listening to BT et al wet their pants with excitement every time he went near it, but he was genuinely one of my favourite all time non-demons to watch, and saved his absolute best for finals. Mark of a true champion.

Cyril could mark, kick, handball, evade, tackle, so can kosssie, 
Kossie only needs to be the best HE CAN BE. 

Lewis also thinks the mop of strewn road kill attached to his head is similar to human hair.

Kossie might have the best defensive traits since Cyril. His anticipation, closing speed and desire for contact are all great. Time will tell if he has the class and finishing skills with the ball to be a two way star. 

At the same stage of his career Cyril was a premiership player and went close to a Norm Smith medal. Kozzie has talent, but unrealistic comparisons like this will only heap unnecessary pressure on him.

Kozzie needs to get his fitness up before he can make a decent impact and fulfill his talents. He’s dead last on our list for fitness, to the point now where he’s being put into the rehab group at training because he can’t keep up.

1 hour ago, BW511 said:

I'm often wondering whether Cyril was an out and out super star or slightly overrated.

He definitely won some games for the Hawks, big ones too, but he was very quiet in a lot more games.

I think there's less and less room for players like that as each year goes by

 

 

He almost always bought it defensively and Richmond have shown those players are more and more valuable. Cyril had quiet games on the stat sheet but was also making an impact on the advanced stat sheet that measures pressure.

This issue with Cyril was he enjoyed a good offseason and would often come back in poor shape. Which led to hamstring injuries and missing games. And early retirement. Plus he never reached his midfield potential which is really unfortunate as he could’ve done special things in the centre.

Aaron Davey was a better field kick but otherwise a lesser player and had great midfield seasons due to doing the work and necessity at a less talented club. It’s a shame Cyril never did.

Kossie can have 8 disposals, 4 effective, 1 behind but make a good impact with 4 tackles. But I’m not sure he’s on Cyril’s level of missing 10 weeks with a hammy and then turning it on. So it’s important they build his body and work ethic up the right way.

5 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

At the same stage of his career Cyril was a premiership player and went close to a Norm Smith medal. Kozzie has talent, but unrealistic comparisons like this will only heap unnecessary pressure on him.

Kozzie needs to get his fitness up before he can make a decent impact and fulfill his talents. He’s dead last on our list for fitness, to the point now where he’s being put into the rehab group at training because he can’t keep up.

While I agree with you that he needs to improve his fitness. I don't think the 2km run is a useful fitness test for a small forward. Their fitness standards are based on short quick burst with powerful explosion. I'm the dylandfriends podcast with Andrew Russell, he use to say Cyril would come last in the time trials as well.

Generally, comparisons are odious.

Lewis is an accomplished media performer and knows how to sell hope at this time of the year.

Last season Kozzie showed glimpses but nothing more. I understand the need to play him, but for many games last year he was bog ordinary. Tackles didn't stick, sitters were missed and he often found himself out of the action.

Has a long, long way to go.

 

It’s January, but i hope Jordan is right 

37 minutes ago, Lord Travis said:

Kozzie needs to get his fitness up before he can make a decent impact and fulfill his talents. He’s dead last on our list for fitness, to the point now where he’s being put into the rehab group at training because he can’t keep up.

Geez that's concerning if true. I'd have hoped he's in rehab with a slight niggle, not because he can't keep up with the others. He's a well paid professional athlete FCS! And the COVID breach with his mate Charles was less than professional.

His lack of fitness might explain some of his poor shots on goal last year. He really did miss some sitters that other small forwards eat up for breakfast. 

With respect to the Rioli comparison, I can see where he's coming from. Kozzie can def do some things that 99% of the league can't with his awareness and cleverness. But he obviously needs to start nailing the shots on goal that Cyril would kick in his sleep.

 

 

 

 

Whether the comparison is appropriate or not, I feel that Lewis:

• has genuine faith in the quality and ability of this list; and

• has sufficient knowledge and experience to be able to hold, and express, a credible view on this.

 

The biggest knock on Kossie when recruited was his lack of fitness and tendency to fade in and out of games.  
All I can do is comment on what I actually saw during the season. Some of his end to end running last season creating chains of possessions or creating forward options having run from the backline were phenomenal. Personally I’m not worried about his fitness levels. Lord Nev how do you know he’s in the rehab group because of lack of fitness? Are you guessing or did the coaches tell you that. 
Fading in and out of games could be a worry or could be a reflection on a completely disfunctional forward line with minimal opportunities for crumbing small forwards. Cyril averaged something like 12 possessions a game. It’s not everything. 
 

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

He almost always bought it defensively and Richmond have shown those players are more and more valuable. Cyril had quiet games on the stat sheet but was also making an impact on the advanced stat sheet that measures pressure.

This issue with Cyril was he enjoyed a good offseason and would often come back in poor shape. Which led to hamstring injuries and missing games. And early retirement. Plus he never reached his midfield potential which is really unfortunate as he could’ve done special things in the centre.

Aaron Davey was a better field kick but otherwise a lesser player and had great midfield seasons due to doing the work and necessity at a less talented club. It’s a shame Cyril never did.

Kossie can have 8 disposals, 4 effective, 1 behind but make a good impact with 4 tackles. But I’m not sure he’s on Cyril’s level of missing 10 weeks with a hammy and then turning it on. So it’s important they build his body and work ethic up the right way.

The difference with Richmond is their defensive forwards contribute to a whole team structure. They also regularly get their own ball.

I guess where I differ is that if Kossie had 8 disposals and the stats you mention above, is 4 effective tackles enough to help us win games every single week. I acknowledge that 4 timely tackles could win us a game every now and then, but it won't turn us into a premiership threat because you have to win a lot of games to get there in the first place.

 

 

There's a difference between saying 'he'll be as good as...' and 'he has similar traits to....'

I've only read the article, haven't heard the audio, but the quotes in the article make it sound like he's not saying he's as good as Cyril, just that he's doing some things that are 'Cyril-like'.

Lewis: “He’s doing stuff up the field that I haven’t seen since Rioli.”

https://www.sen.com.au/news/2021/01/20/young-demon-likened-to-hawks-champion/

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by Lord Nev

Lets hope Lewis is correct and Kossie takes a big step forward in 2021

We need him and many others to improve significantly for us to seriously challenge

The changes in coaching group gives me some hope that can happen

4 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

The expectation might be high however he has exquisite talent and a year under his belt will do him good. Lewis is  well respected has  the knowledge  to  compare Kossie.

I hope Lewis is right  because we might be in for an exciting year. 

Agreed

He's a 19 yo kid who has had one very different season as an introduction to an AFL career.

He's still learning habits that will shape his professionalism to elite.

Personally I'm much more worried about Aaron Nietschke's knees than Kossie, who has a massive ceiling and I'm sure will be an absolute gun in a year or two if he learns and adopts good habits.

4 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

I also remember him saying our young list was comparable to Hawthorns at the similar stage when he come over.

 

Really? Your gonna go there? Would you like to be held accountable for every statement and or comparison you make? 
 

at the time he was right. List isn’t the issue

3 hours ago, BW511 said:

The difference with Richmond is their defensive forwards contribute to a whole team structure. They also regularly get their own ball.

I guess where I differ is that if Kossie had 8 disposals and the stats you mention above, is 4 effective tackles enough to help us win games every single week. I acknowledge that 4 timely tackles could win us a game every now and then, but it won't turn us into a premiership threat because you have to win a lot of games to get there in the first place.

 

 

That’s Pickett compared with Dan Rioli. All he has to do is find half a tackle more and 3 uncontested touches which comes from work rate and team cohesion and he’s on par statistically. 
 

Games are won largely by 22 players knowing and doing their role. If one of our big forwards stands up along with Gawn, Oliver, Petracca and May I think we’ll be fine for star power. It’s finding more consistency and skill across the 22 that holds us back. 

Edited January 21, 20215 yr by DeeSpencer