Sam's biggest problem is that he can't take a one grab mark.

So he can attack the ball better for sure but is unlikely to hold many. Yes he can bring the ball to ground but ideally he can hold his marks and I doubt he can be taught that at his age.....

 

4 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Sam's biggest problem is that he can't take a one grab mark.

So he can attack the ball better for sure but is unlikely to hold many. Yes he can bring the ball to ground but ideally he can hold his marks and I doubt he can be taught that at his age.....

 

Sometimes it is in his head and not skill based.

Getting confidence could be a big step towards clunking them.

He is quite intelligent and reflective. He knows the problem he has of not being clean.

Acknowledgement is a first step to change.

He mentioned the marking and fear of the big boys to me in his first year on the paddock (just a passing comment which did surprise me).

His body is stronger now and he appears ready to impose himself.

He is clean at ground level. Hoping he can do the aerial thing as well, and 2021 is his year.

 

 

17 hours ago, rjay said:

I didn't say it was the catalyst.

...but did think it would have been good to see where they were at the end of the season if they had played it out together.

Sorry rjay you said that if Jacko was not injured You would have liked to see if they developed SO WE DIDNT NEED TO RECRUIT BBB You inferred that that was the reason for Ben being recruited If that's not the catalyst in what your saying then I don't know what is.
 

So he was injured  and we recruited  Benny I am saying that your comment is not the reason for Browns trade to us as we NEED him badly along with Jacko and Weid fir our forward line anyway.

Separation from op and running patterns would be fairly essential tools in a key forward's kit bag.  It beggars belief that going into his 7th year the club has not provided this (or if it has, not sufficiently) and he feels he needs to seek it out for himself. 

He said in another interview that he was trying to learn what to do from Steven May which has some merit but not a substitute for good coaching.

It all makes me wonder if we had a development plan for Sam or it has been left to chance.  One could be forgiven for thinking his development has been collateral damage of not having an experienced forward coach nor a consistent one for most of his time at the club.

Its hard to develop confidence if you aren't very sure on what to do or how to do it. 

Hopefully, this is a turning point for him.  And hopefully, his up field teammates learn what Sam's running patterns will be so they can anticipate ball placement. 

Edited December 29, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

19 hours ago, Neil Crompton said:

Are we reading too much into this?

All we know publicly is what Sam said - ie he rang JB and had a chat with him. Saying that Sam is being mentored by JB is a bit over the top at this stage I would have thought - and heaven knows where the “ear massage from Roos and Lyon contributed to (JB) getting a gig” came from.

The fact that the video was essentially about back yard cricket, with a (MFC) worthy football statement thrown in as an aside, would seem to highlight what the media found as more news worthy.

I rate Sam, and would welcome him seeking JB or Carey or Lyon as a mentor as good news, but I just don’t want to jump the gun on this item just yet.

Fair enough, though they do seem close, and i think in the Media you would need to have trust.

1 hour ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

Separation from op and running patterns would be fairly essential tools in a key forward's kit bag.  It beggars belief that going into his 7th year the club has not provided this (or if it has, not sufficiently) and he feels he needs to seek it out for himself. 

This, x10000

We have had 4 'Forward' coaches (potentially more) in his time at the club and not a SINGLE one of them, was ever a pure forward. The club has let him and others down in this facet. 

4 hours ago, Ham said:

This, x10000

We have had 4 'Forward' coaches (potentially more) in his time at the club and not a SINGLE one of them, was ever a pure forward. The club has let him and others down in this facet. 

That's very well to say get forward coaches that where forwards, there is something about forwards they don't go into coaching, lets name a few great forwards and Think if they went into coaching, Dunstall, gary Lyon,  David Schwarz , Russell Robinson, Wayne Carey Jonathan Brown, Lynch, fav, how many AFL head coaches where a pure forward, name them please.

48 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

That's very well to say get forward coaches that where forwards, there is something about forwards they don't go into coaching, lets name a few great forwards and Think if they went into coaching, Dunstall, gary Lyon,  David Schwarz , Russell Robinson, Wayne Carey Jonathan Brown, Lynch, fav, how many AFL head coaches where a pure forward, name them please.

Norm Smith was handy. John Longmire, Leigh Mathews, Robert Walls, they even named a medal after Coleman. Edit, And they are premiership coaches. There are others.

Edited December 29, 20204 yr by ManDee

22 minutes ago, ManDee said:

Norm Smith was handy. John Longmire, Leigh Mathews, Robert Walls, they even named a medal after Coleman. Edit, And they are premiership coaches. There are others.

Malcolm Blight did alright. 

9 minutes ago, It's Time said:

Malcolm Blight did alright. 

And so he did, I typed his name during an edit, must have forgotten to save.

Ross Lyon was a forward and kicked 5 playing CHF for Victoria.

23 hours ago, jnrmac said:

Sam's biggest problem is that he can't take a one grab mark.

So he can attack the ball better for sure but is unlikely to hold many. Yes he can bring the ball to ground but ideally he can hold his marks and I doubt he can be taught that at his age.....

 

Sorry, jnrmac, on the day the Demons capitulated a final final's chance in Geelong at the end of 2016 I saw Weidemann take 6 pack marks in a game against Box Hill.  He had six goals up by half time.The lad can mark. It's about confidence, and, unfortunately, in our case, [censored] delivery. 

2 hours ago, ManDee said:

Norm Smith was handy. John Longmire, Leigh Mathews, Robert Walls, they even named a medal after Coleman. Edit, And they are premiership coaches. There are others.

I checked out the current assistant coaches at all AFL clubs, and there are only about 3 that played as forwards, and I was talking about current coach's and there is 1, so history hss nothing to do about the present coaches, overall 96% of all coaches are non forwards.

28 minutes ago, don't make me angry said:

I checked out the current assistant coaches at all AFL clubs, and there are only about 3 that played as forwards, and I was talking about current coach's and there is 1, so history hss nothing to do about the present coaches, overall 96% of all coaches are non forwards.

Haven't gone through all the clubs tbh, but there's Barker, Roughie, Tudor, Hale, Stevie J, and of course Longmire and Dew off the top of my head. Plenty more if you want to list off players who spent more time forward than anywhere else but weren't 'pure forwards' as such.

Seems a strange argument to be making tho tbh.

Can only be a good thing for Sam. I think he’s got the talent to become a really good forward for us, not in the category of Neitz but someone who can kick upwards of 40 goals a year most years. There was one game this year (which I think we actually lost) where he was doing things that I really want him to focus on for the rest of his career and it’s simply being a presence. He has to be able to make an impact even if he’s not kicking goals or taking marks. 

Would love to say 12 months from now that Brown has been the catalyst to Sam being forward to be feared in the competition. 

Sam will be a great forward. Brown will teach him the tricks. Just needs to work on his upperbody strength to dominate contests.

Akin to Prince Charles meeting Les Patterson.

 

On 12/28/2020 at 8:50 PM, jnrmac said:

Sam's biggest problem is that he can't take a one grab mark.

So he can attack the ball better for sure but is unlikely to hold many. Yes he can bring the ball to ground but ideally he can hold his marks and I doubt he can be taught that at his age.....

 

He gets to enough contests, he does jump at the contest really well but just drops to many marks that he needs to start taking.  A bit more strength will help.  His contested one on one improved a lot in 2020 still needs work but we saw him able to hold body position a bit more.

Needs to Nail those 30m out 45 degree angle shots, these should be bread and butter for all forwards a couple of games he could have kicked 3-5 goals if he nailed these easy shots.

We also need to remember the way our game plan is to push forwards around the contest to get the outnumber there means our tall forwards always are out numbered and our crumbing forwards play a more hit up role that front and square so even if Weiderman brought the ball to ground he had little support to stop it coming straight back out.

There is no harm in players have outside mentors, sometimes you just need that outside voice to offer some advice.   

16 hours ago, dieter said:

Sorry, jnrmac, on the day the Demons capitulated a final final's chance in Geelong at the end of 2016 I saw Weidemann take 6 pack marks in a game against Box Hill.  He had six goals up by half time.The lad can mark. It's about confidence, and, unfortunately, in our case, [censored] delivery. 

Either that game was televised or someone posted the goals here from memory. Weid certainly had a day out. 6.0 or 6.1 from memory. May not have scored after half time?

On 12/29/2020 at 1:16 AM, kev martin said:

Sometimes it is in his head and not skill based.

Getting confidence could be a big step towards clunking them.

He is quite intelligent and reflective. He knows the problem he has of not being clean.

Acknowledgement is a first step to change.

He mentioned the marking and fear of the big boys to me in his first year on the paddock (just a passing comment which did surprise me).

His body is stronger now and he appears ready to impose himself.

He is clean at ground level. Hoping he can do the aerial thing as well, and 2021 is his year.

 

 

100%

All he needs is a good confidence hit.
He's got the tools.

19 hours ago, dieter said:

Sorry, jnrmac, on the day the Demons capitulated a final final's chance in Geelong at the end of 2016 I saw Weidemann take 6 pack marks in a game against Box Hill.  He had six goals up by half time.The lad can mark. It's about confidence, and, unfortunately, in our case, [censored] delivery. 

1. They werent all pack marks.

2. Get back to me when he takes 6 pack marks in the ones

3 hours ago, M_9 said:

Either that game was televised or someone posted the goals here from memory. Weid certainly had a day out. 6.0 or 6.1 from memory. May not have scored after half time?

He scored one after half time, as I recall.

21 hours ago, don't make me angry said:

I checked out the current assistant coaches at all AFL clubs, and there are only about 3 that played as forwards, and I was talking about current coach's and there is 1, so history hss nothing to do about the present coaches, overall 96% of all coaches are 

You said nothing of current coaches. There are plenty of assistant coaches, we even have one. Forwards are over represented in the media which may keep some away from coaching.

On 12/30/2020 at 4:07 PM, jnrmac said:

1. They werent all pack marks.

2. Get back to me when he takes 6 pack marks in the ones

If he's done it in the 2s tho it demonstrates it is not a skill/touch issue so much as a confidence/strength issue. So he can do it and for that matter he has taken one grab pack marks in the 1s just has to do it consistently.

On 12/30/2020 at 4:07 PM, jnrmac said:

1. They werent all pack marks.

2. Get back to me when he takes 6 pack marks in the ones

Neither Lockett or Dustall would have taken 6 pack marks in a game.

Of the current tall forwards Dixon, Hawkins or Lynch might take one, 2 on a good day...Cameron rarely takes a pack mark.

A lot of the problem is how we move the ball in, the expectation of the pack mark is higher because we bomb the ball.