On 23/11/2020 at 03:16, whatwhatsaywhat said:

i guess the theory is that these guys have ready-made afl bodies by dint of consecutive pre-seasons and also know both the game plan and the culture the club is trying to execute

you'd think that none are automatic starters in best 22

Sorry but who is the best small defender on our list in view of Jets lack of pace?

Most Dees fans would have Lockhart by a country mile but our Coach mysteriously dropped him in the last 5/6 games.

Why ?? And in true to his form refused to look  at him again despite disastrous form by most in Cairns.

I know the club rate Chandler. I was told reliably he was in the mix for a gurnsey round 1 this year before he got injured.

 

  On 23/11/2020 at 18:45, 58er said:

Sorry but who is the best small defender on our list in view of Jets lack of pace?

Most Dees fans would have Lockhart by a country mile but our Coach mysteriously dropped him in the last 5/6 games.

Why ?? And in true to his form refused to look  at him again despite disastrous form by most in Cairns.

Yes 58

That was a good reason  to  confirm to me that Goodwin has no idea

Cant wait for some  more Bizzaro moves next year

Surely we are parting ways with KK? 

  On 23/11/2020 at 21:13, Jaded said:

Surely we are parting ways with KK? 

Was there a theory on here re KK Jaded that if he stayed on the list then he qualified for medical insurance? His signing has obviously been a complete bust for the Club. It would be great to get a statement from them as to where he is at but I’m not holding my breath. I don’t understand why the need for secrecy 

  On 23/11/2020 at 21:33, FarNorthernD said:

Was there a theory on here re KK Jaded that if he stayed on the list then he qualified for medical insurance? His signing has obviously been a complete bust for the Club. It would be great to get a statement from them as to where he is at but I’m not holding my breath. I don’t understand why the need for secrecy 

Most people like to keep their health private. Perhaps that's what KK wants.

  On 23/11/2020 at 21:33, FarNorthernD said:

Was there a theory on here re KK Jaded that if he stayed on the list then he qualified for medical insurance? His signing has obviously been a complete bust for the Club. It would be great to get a statement from them as to where he is at but I’m not holding my breath. I don’t understand why the need for secrecy 

I think it has to do with the salary cap, that if a player is medially retired then their salary doesn't count (or is only half counted) but not if a payout is reached. They probably can't come out and say he's finished but we're waiting until we can exit him in the most salary cap safe way. 

Chandler, Bedford, Jordon, Kolodjashnij, Nietschke. We're heading into 2021 with five blokes on the list who will give us nothing. This club is so weak at times. 

So we get to the end of next year and presumably Jetta & Jones retire. We've got five clear delistings carried forward from this year (see above), plus M.Brown. We also have Baker & Neal-Bullen come out of contract.

That leaves an absolute minimum of 8 to 10 players to replace at the end of next year, and we currently don't have a first round pick. This is going to end really badly.

  On 23/11/2020 at 04:43, Tarax Club said:

Check your arithmetic! It is deespicable! The metric equivalent to the old imperial 6 foot is 182.88 cm rounds off to 183 cm in whole numbers. That may explain the inordinate number of the 'vertically challenged' on our list!  

Love the Dwarfs and yes I was aware 6-feet is effectively 183cm. But I also reckon a player who is 182.5cm or  even182.8cm is going to say, 'mark me down as 183cm will you'. I am sure even those who are 182.2cm try and get rounded up to 183cm, although mathematically that's harder to justify. Hence I included all the 183cm listed players in the sub 6-footers - rightly or wrongly.

Just in case you think I'm exclusionary based on height, I do think Errol Gulden (at 177cm) is our perfect first choice in this year's draft - a left-foot wingman with good kicking skills, although Sydney have rights to him via their academy.

My point is that we have five small forwards basically battling for one spot on the list (two when our coach switches structure to a smaller line up which he does on occasions) and given that we now have one who is a gem (Kossie), I don't get why we need all those back-ups for that possie, especially if they don't have weapons (eg: pace or kicking skills). Spargo, ANB, Bedford and Chandler are all great workers, but don't have the weapons to justify retaining all of them. One should have been delisted.

 

  On 24/11/2020 at 00:13, poita said:

Chandler, Bedford, Jordon, Kolodjashnij, Nietschke. We're heading into 2021 with five blokes on the list who will give us nothing. This club is so weak at times. 

So we get to the end of next year and presumably Jetta & Jones retire. We've got five clear delistings carried forward from this year (see above), plus M.Brown. We also have Baker & Neal-Bullen come out of contract.

That leaves an absolute minimum of 8 to 10 players to replace at the end of next year, and we currently don't have a first round pick. This is going to end really badly.

Panic comments and out of our 1 year signings and out of contract others at least 3/4 should be improved with greater coaching and development.

Think  a half glass full approach is best rather than the usual doom portrayed.

Lockhart Jordan Bedford and Baker could all improve with Casey type games each week as well .

It’s a strange time to be evaluating players. The players would argue that they never got a shot at it due to the lack of VFL. You could also counter argue that 1-2 of them wouldn’t have shown much at that level and would have been let go. It’s football purgatory, and we’ve decided it’s better the devil you know.

  On 23/11/2020 at 04:08, Ham said:

Pleased to see Jordon and Bedford get extended. I think both of these should/will be in our best 22 in the not too distant future. 

Lockhart very well deserved.

Chandler I'm not confident about.

M. Brown, I don't get it, but ok. 

Re Mitch Brown, his first game was very average but so too were many others. His last two games were full of sparkle and polish, in particular his last game which recorded 2 Brownlow votes. I would play him any day of the week instead of Melksham who clearly was the coaches pet throughout a very disappointing 2020 and should have been dropped many times.

I would not be surprised to see M Brown will feature more prominently as he is a very "Smart" footballer which is something we don't have a lot of!

  On 24/11/2020 at 03:33, The heart beats true said:

It’s a strange time to be evaluating players. The players would argue that they never got a shot at it due to the lack of VFL. You could also counter argue that 1-2 of them wouldn’t have shown much at that level and would have been let go. It’s football purgatory, and we’ve decided it’s better the devil you know.

Agree and let's hope 3 or 4 of them improve . 

  On 23/11/2020 at 18:45, 58er said:

Sorry but who is the best small defender on our list in view of Jets lack of pace?

Most Dees fans would have Lockhart by a country mile but our Coach mysteriously dropped him in the last 5/6 games.

Why ?? And in true to his form refused to look  at him again despite disastrous form by most in Cairns.

hore definitely a shout too. well and truly in the mix 

  On 24/11/2020 at 00:13, poita said:

Chandler, Bedford, Jordon, Kolodjashnij, Nietschke. We're heading into 2021 with five blokes on the list who will give us nothing. This club is so weak at times. 

So we get to the end of next year and presumably Jetta & Jones retire. We've got five clear delistings carried forward from this year (see above), plus M.Brown. We also have Baker & Neal-Bullen come out of contract.

That leaves an absolute minimum of 8 to 10 players to replace at the end of next year, and we currently don't have a first round pick. This is going to end really badly.

just because a player is yet to debut doesn't mean they will give us nothing. using ur logic we may as well not even have a draft. u gotta actually put time into players and nurture them. not everyone is clarry oliver. 

imo Jetta, Jones, KK, vanders, ANB are the five obvious outs, MBrown and chandler off the rookie list too, then another crack at shifting TMac or smith goes instead. and we look at Jkelly, lipinski, tippa, stack as potential targets i can see from this far out

Didn't know where to put this..

 

 

  On 24/11/2020 at 09:34, dazzledavey36 said:

Didn't know where to put this..

 

surely this sees KK drop down alongside nieta and then creates another live pick on draft night or at least we'll look to take in 6 A rookies and a senior list of 36 and have more money outside the cap purely for financial benefits?

  On 24/11/2020 at 09:34, Demonland said:

 

I'm trying to understand how this works from a player's perspective for someone told he is being delisted but will be rookied. Before this, those players could put themselves into the draft for anyone else to take, thereby getting another chance on a senior list, knowing the worst case scenario is ending up on the rookie list of the club that just delisted them. Does this change mean that those players won't have the chance of being picked up by another club?

carlton finding new and interesting ways to rort this - they've moved betts to the rookie list, automatic saving of $80k from the cap

who will be the first club to shift 5x best 22 players onto the rookie list to save $400,000 from their cap? peptides? or the filth?

considering as A rookies can be paid 80k outside the cap i find it strange that we haven't delisted contracted players (vanders, nibbler, jetta) or delayed contracts on certain players (any of jones, smith, bedford, jordon) and have in fact upgraded lockhart unncessarily. running a minimum senior list with maximum rookies is the best way to pay ur list no?

  On 25/11/2020 at 04:48, Turner said:

considering as A rookies can be paid 80k outside the cap i find it strange that we haven't delisted contracted players (vanders, nibbler, jetta) or delayed contracts on certain players (any of jones, smith, bedford, jordon) and have in fact upgraded lockhart unncessarily. running a minimum senior list with maximum rookies is the best way to pay ur list no?

Yes.  mfc has been doing this for several years.  6 rookies in 2020, a sal cap saving of $480k

The minimum senior list is 37 36 maximum is 38.  We have 34 senior players so we must add at least 2 to the senior list as draftees or DFA's.

The advantage of keeping a rookie spot (or two) vacant is that we can add players as part of the PSSP or the 2021 quarterly mid-season drafts.  Clubs that max out their rookie list won't be able to, without a LT injury or retirement.  There may well be some gems among the draftees that don't get drafted due to small list sizes and list capacity reached.  We have 2 rookie list vacancies so well placed to pick up a gem or two.

I think our list management is going along nicely.

Edited November 25, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

  On 24/11/2020 at 05:02, Turner said:

hore definitely a shout too. well and truly in the mix 

just because a player is yet to debut doesn't mean they will give us nothing. using ur logic we may as well not even have a draft. u gotta actually put time into players and nurture them. not everyone is clarry oliver. 

imo Jetta, Jones, KK, vanders, ANB are the five obvious outs, MBrown and chandler off the rookie list too, then another crack at shifting TMac or smith goes instead. and we look at Jkelly, lipinski, tippa, stack as potential targets i can see from this far out

Turner Please don't confuse Hore and Lockhart As they offer 2 distinct styles of play.

Jay is a small defenders style with run and carry aggression and move ing the ball fast and jumping fir marks realistically allied to your ability. Should be at Club in BP fir the next 6/8 years as Jets replacement from Round1. Love what he offers to our defence in the way of attacking play which we need to develop with our very talented group just developing strongly.

Marty is basically a Lever clone who intercepts marks across the defence and not necessarily takes a man. IMO not fast enough to mind smalls and big enough for key position minding jobs. Difficult to fit into team as his disposal is ok but not outstanding also. Smith is his biggest Opposition  as he has pace and spring but Lever stops his progress also.

Not sure if people are aware but I think KK has retired - apparently on his instagram and the club page

  On 25/11/2020 at 04:59, 58er said:

Turner Please don't confuse Hore and Lockhart As they offer 2 distinct styles of play.

Jay is a small defenders style with run and carry aggression and move ing the ball fast and jumping fir marks realistically allied to your ability. Should be at Club in BP fir the next 6/8 years as Jets replacement from Round1. Love what he offers to our defence in the way of attacking play which we need to develop with our very talented group just developing strongly.

Marty is basically a Lever clone who intercepts marks across the defence and not necessarily takes a man. IMO not fast enough to mind smalls and big enough for key position minding jobs. Difficult to fit into team as his disposal is ok but not outstanding also. Smith is his biggest Opposition  as he has pace and spring but Lever stops his progress also.

Don't agree with you about Lockhart.  Is tough & aggressive but is sloppy in execution, slips over, lacks accuracy with foot & hand disposal & doesn't read the play well.  Has potential but needs a major improvement in his skill levels to become a regular player.  

  On 25/11/2020 at 04:55, Lucifer's Hero said:

Yes.  mfc has been doing this for several years.  6 rookies in 2020, a sal cap saving of $480k

The minimum senior list is 37, maximum is 38.  We have 34 senior players so we must add at least 3 players to the senior list as draftees or DFA's.

The advantage of keeping a rookie spot (or two) vacant is that we can add players as part of the PSSP or the 2021 quarterly mid-season drafts.  Clubs that max out their rookie list won't be able to, without a LT injury or retirement.  There may well be some gems among the draftees that don't get drafted due to small list sizes and list capacity reached.  We have 2 rookie list vacancies so well placed to pick up a gem or two.

I think our list management is going along nicely.

The minimum senior list is 36 not 37, but we'll have at least 37.

Given we have 1 Cat B in Bradtke, I'd suggest the best thing to do is to have a senior list of 37, and then 6 A rookie spots (filling 5 initially). 

If we went 38 main list, Bradtke, max 5 A rookies we'd be paying 80k extra in the cap for no reason.

So we either take just the live 3 draft picks or we demote someone back to the rookie list (assuming we still can) if we want to take a 4th pick or a delisted free agent on to the main list.