I rate James, and feel he is not been utilised in his best position, sacrificing for the team, as it were.

Why then, do I feel it is significant that he wasn't training with the presumed team for the final game against Essendon (ie: not named for the last few matches). I know it's conjecture and we will find out soon enough, I wonder though whether he has requested to a trade elsewhere? Or perhaps I'm just inferring stuff, and Rivers goes in ahead of him and it is a simple as that?

Edited September 18, 20204 yr by Engorged Onion
further thoughts

He won't request or get traded. He's still got 4 years left on his contract. Big ask for another club to take on that responsibility as well.

He'll be a Demon next year.

I rate Harmes. Just need to play him somewhere that’s not the backline. 

8 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He won't request or get traded. He's still got 4 years left on his contract. Big ask for another club to take on that responsibility as well.

He'll be a Demon next year.

I think this is going to be the case, simply because of the four year deal he is still on.  A club would have to really see something in him to take that on board.

On the flip side, I don't dislike the deal he has and I still think he can be a good contributor going forward IF he is played in the right positions.  With the emergence of Rivers you would hope the experiment across half back has come to an end.

13 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I rate James, and feel he is not been utilised in his best position, sacrificing for the team, as it were.

Why then, do I feel it is significant that he wasn't training with the presumed team for the final game against Essendon (ie: not named for the last few matches). I know it's conjecture and we will find out soon enough, I wonder though whether he has requested to a trade elsewhere? Or perhaps I'm just inferring stuff, and Rivers goes in ahead of him and it is a simple as that?

FFS can goody play him in his right position as a midfield tagger and rotate the mids to F50. Harmes is a beast in this role and use a player to what their strengths are. It bloody common sense ffs. 
 

I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS ALL SEASON AND IT REALLY PISES ME OFF. 

Goodwin has a lot to answer for with his selections and playing players out of position. If it doesn’t work then STOP doing it but no our genius coach does otherwise. 

15 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's still got 4 years left on his contract

Thanks @dazzledavey36 - nothing to see here then...normal service resumed.

I feel he actually played more forward/mid against Freo and looked like he was having an impact in those roles, but then he got injured.

25 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I think this is going to be the case, simply because of the four year deal he is still on.  A club would have to really see something in him to take that on board.

On the flip side, I don't dislike the deal he has and I still think he can be a good contributor going forward IF he is played in the right positions.  With the emergence of Rivers you would hope the experiment across half back has come to an end.

Agree.

Incidently I thought it was an interesting admission from Rivers in his most recient post match interview, that spoiling wasn't really a strength of his.  Thought that we recruited him as a half back, so though it was odd that he wasn't up to scratch in the spoiling department.  Unless it was that he was so dominant with his intercept marking that spoiling wasn't a practiced or required skill.  Differences between underage/second tier comps and AFL seniors I guess.

27 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Goodwin has a lot to answer for with his selections and playing players out of position. If it doesn’t work then STOP doing it but no our genius coach does otherwise. 

Trouble is, we've got Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes and Brayshaw that play their best footy in the middle. 

All are best clearly 22 players. Lots of people taking pot shots at Goodwin for playing guys out of position, but what the hell is the alternative? Start with 6 blokes in the square and hope the umpires don't notice? Obviously, we need to find a better way to manage this going forward, but laying the boots into the coach without offering up a solution does my head in.

1 hour ago, Engorged Onion said:

I rate James, and feel he is not been utilised in his best position, sacrificing for the team, as it were.

Why then, do I feel it is significant that he wasn't training with the presumed team for the final game against Essendon (ie: not named for the last few matches). I know it's conjecture and we will find out soon enough, I wonder though whether he has requested to a trade elsewhere? Or perhaps I'm just inferring stuff, and Rivers goes in ahead of him and it is a simple as that?

He's been out injured...hamstring.

It's really as simple as that.

19 minutes ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Trouble is, we've got Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes and Brayshaw that play their best footy in the middle. 

All are best clearly 22 players. Lots of people taking pot shots at Goodwin for playing guys out of position, but what the hell is the alternative? Start with 6 blokes in the square and hope the umpires don't notice? Obviously, we need to find a better way to manage this going forward, but laying the boots into the coach without offering up a solution does my head in.

Lions in their 3 peat had numerous mid fielders and rotated them. A good coach finds a way to work to the players strengths. When a coach can’t figure it out that does my head in as they are being waste playing out of position. 

I'd prefer him to Brayshaw he can tag for a start. Brayshaw doesn't give us a lot.

1 hour ago, DemonOX said:

FFS can goody play him in his right position as a midfield tagger and rotate the mids to F50. Harmes is a beast in this role and use a player to what their strengths are. It bloody common sense ffs. 
 

I HAVE BEEN SAYING THIS ALL SEASON AND IT REALLY PISES ME OFF. 

Goodwin has a lot to answer for with his selections and playing players out of position. If it doesn’t work then STOP doing it but no our genius coach does otherwise. 

One of my biggest criticisms of the Coach.

Knowing our 'one-type' midfield that aren't versatile enough to play other positions I simply do not understand why the club gave him a 5 year contract (1+4). 

It was just before the draft and he still had a year to go on his contract.  Unless he was in demand during the trade period I don't see what the urgency was.  Now we have another play on our hands for another 4 years who has been dropped and may not be best 22 in the not too distant future.

I've said a few times 4 and 5 year contracts should be for top players.  If average to good players can get better contracts let them go especially if their skill set is well covered.  Get some trade value while we can.

Edit:  didn't train with the main group so won't be selected for this game.

Edited September 18, 20204 yr by Lucifer's Hero

1 hour ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Trouble is, we've got Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes and Brayshaw that play their best footy in the middle. 

All are best clearly 22 players. Lots of people taking pot shots at Goodwin for playing guys out of position, but what the hell is the alternative? Start with 6 blokes in the square and hope the umpires don't notice? Obviously, we need to find a better way to manage this going forward, but laying the boots into the coach without offering up a solution does my head in.

Agree, excellent point.  And a point some of us have made is that with this year's shortened quarters there are less starting midfield minutes available to go around.

Nevertheless Harmes was training with the backs before the season started so that was the plan going in.  It was worth a try to get some more dash.  He's strong overhead and has some penetrating dash.  It hasn't worked out.  Goodwin frequently gets criticized for not trying anything, but that couldn't be further from the truth.

I do get the feeling in the wash-up for next year that the whole group won't all be there.

2 hours ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Trouble is, we've got Viney, Oliver, Petracca, Harmes and Brayshaw that play their best footy in the middle. 

All are best clearly 22 players. Lots of people taking pot shots at Goodwin for playing guys out of position, but what the hell is the alternative? Start with 6 blokes in the square and hope the umpires don't notice? Obviously, we need to find a better way to manage this going forward, but laying the boots into the coach without offering up a solution does my head in.

Petacca out of the names mentioned is the only one that has any real flexibility atm....IMO you should not be playing all of the other 3 guys at the time.  They struggle on wings/half back and half forward.  I would be looking hard to trade at least one of these guys, they upset our balance nearly every team selection.  It's harsh but i just don't see positions for them apart from mid.

I heard from a good authority weeks ago   but did not post as lots of people say this  but I believe the source.    HARMES TOLD HIS MANAGER AT LEAST 6 WEEKS he wants out.   4 clubs are interested.  I hope I am wrong cause he can play but apparently he is annoyed the way he is being played.    No need for abuse and I am not making it up    . If I am wrong so be it   but once again I believe the inside source.    Believe it or not

3 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He won't request or get traded. He's still got 4 years left on his contract. Big ask for another club to take on that responsibility as well.

He'll be a Demon next year.

Bloody well hope so, its the silly season already but if all the rumblings are to be believed (they shouldn't be) then in 2021 we are minus Viney, Brayshaw, Harmes and Sparrow. Barely a midfield left. Even if Brayshaw and Harmes requested a trade I would hope we would play hardball and hold them to their contracts unless something ridiculously overs came our way.

3 minutes ago, gregdemon said:

I heard from a good authority weeks ago   but did not post as lots of people say this  but I believe the source.    HARMES TOLD HIS MANAGER AT LEAST 6 WEEKS he wants out.   4 clubs are interested.  I hope I am wrong cause he can play but apparently he is annoyed the way he is being played.    No need for abuse and I am not making it up    . If I am wrong so be it   but once again I believe the inside source.    Believe it or not

I'd believe it.  His contract should not be big issue, we paid him slight unders and got him for a longer period.   Most of us have been complaining last few years that we have too many inside bulls.  Trade and get in some outside run.  I don't think a decision to get rid of Harmes, who is pretty limited when it comes to positions, is going to hurt us at all.  In fact i think we'd be better off.  He can't play midfield unless it is in a tagging role.  Before he was a tagger with some success, he never had a best position... and  he still doesn't.  Trade imo, he should have some currency if 4 clubs are showing interest.

Never been a fan.  Has played the odd good game but doesn't play within his skill set.  Is a basic footballer.  Its probably too late for him to take the desire to be a speccy taking, I can-beat-any-tackler, look-at-me traits out of his game.  Given the contract terms though, I guess we have to keep him.  If either out of contract or on a 1 year contract, I'd be happy to see him gone.

James is an honest trier. Nothing more and that is not a criticism, its just what he is. I have said it before and so have others.. his best position / role is following a  smart footballer around, they take him to the right spots, he is a good contested player and good overhead, he can work off an opponent. Staggers me we have not used him, and all of a sudden we are now trying Melksham.. why not use Harmes in that role when its appropriate. 

It depends who is is looking elsewhere.  Viney, Brayshaw and Harmes have all been raised as possible exits and I wouldn't be surprised if someone from that set was elsewhere next year.  But not all 3 please.

Edited September 18, 20204 yr by Pollyanna

1 hour ago, gregdemon said:

 he is annoyed the way he is being played.    

Well what a surprise that is. Well done goody. You tried something and it didn’t work but don’t change just keep doing the same thing. Brilliant.  
 

Thanks for sharing greg. 

1 hour ago, gregdemon said:

apparently he is annoyed the way he is being played

Hmmm.  Not the first player to express that under Goody.  I believe this time last year Brayshaw and Tracc had similar issues.  They were able to sit down at season's end and sort it out.  I hope Harmes does the same thing.

Apart from the last eight rounds of 2018 when he was playing terrific football, Harmes has been a fringe player. Giving him a five-year contract seems to be extremely generous.

Great work by Harmes' management negotiating that!