6 hours ago, dee-tox said:

You raise some excellent points Nascent. However, he looks finished. Slow and with the turning circle of the QE2. From a list management point of view, if the club thinks he won't get any better,  it is better to offload him now than in three years time. That way we get 700k off the books and have the chance to draft/develop a couple of key position players to replace him. 

It is easy to be sentimental but I would like to see a more ruthless streak to ensure we add depth and talent to our list. These days you can't not perform for two years and command big money. It destroys your list and salary cap.

I largely agree with this, I just hope we can be absolved of paying part of his contract which will enable us to be more aggressive at the trade table. If he unlocks a good deal for us or nets us a somewhat decent pick then I'm all for it.

9 hours ago, Dr.D said:

whether Harmes is played in the wrong position or not is irrelevant. As that falls on Goodwin too. Harmes was one of the best taggers in the afl, getting the ball himself in the process. He was one of our first picked. People forget justhow good he was. His decline is very costly. 

Also, seems like I've got another back up with regards to Weideman. I haven't seen improvement.  I've actually always liked him but I haven't seen anything remotely close to his 2018 finals series. 

Oliver was always destined for greatness. ever since his first practice game in craigieburn.

I don't doubt that a lot of players had career best years in 2018.  Personally i put a lot of it down to the flow on effect from Roos. But if Goodwin gets credit for their 2018 career years then he also must be responsible for their last 2 seasons under that rationale. 

The problem I have with your position, Doc, is that you want to blame all the bad stuff on Goodwin, but give him absolutely no credit for when things have gone right.  You're so blinded by your bias that you just want to pot Goodwin and, in the same breath, totally ignore anything positive he has done.

Look at your stance on Oliver.  How many players have come to an AFL club 'destined for greatness' and not made it?  Plenty.  You still have to be developed and nurtured and taught how to play like an AFL footballer.  Oliver readily admits that he wasn't ready for that, but it took the coaches to talk him through it and model it for him to get it.

I know this thread is about Tom McDonald - and I think his decline is as much to do with the injuries he suffered last year as it is on 'development' - but if you want to knock him for the bad stuff (and I won't stop you or argue some of those aspects), you need to acknowledge and give him due credit for the positive stuff as well.  It works both ways.

23 hours ago, Dr.D said:

the fact that you don't acknowledge Picketts flaws is fine. In a full season, you're mentioning one piece of play? which is the best thing he has done all year. 

how is it wrong regarding petracca? This is his first year playing fulltime mid. Why couldn't he be playing full time mid at least 1 or 2 seasons ago?  I'm yet to hear a reason. It doesn't take 5 years to build an aerobic base good enough to play midfield.

You might care to read the article on Petracca now up on the MFC web site - and note his acknowledgement of Goodwin. But perhaps you know Christian better than he knows himself.

On 9/15/2020 at 7:47 PM, Wiseblood said:

Michael Hibberd has also had a terrific year.

 

On 9/16/2020 at 8:19 AM, Dr.D said:

Hibberd has been a previous All-australian. He has been good this year without being great. 

Hibberd has every right to feel very proud of how he's performed this year. After one poor early game he has showed outstanding endeavour and has only really  been beaten by Wallis who was in superb touch that day. All of this against the backdrop of a family tragedy.

Can’t imagine anyone being interested in Tom. Unless he has injuries or issues that can be resolved in the off season, his body is cooked. 

At this stage he’ll be a back up tall defender for us. 

There are bound to be clubs interested in him, who can back themselves to get him right physically and mentally.

He is a 28 year old key position player, who can play both forward and back. He is in bad form, and his body seems shot, but honestly there will always be takers for his type. Not sure what we would get back, but if both parties want out, I am sure it can be done. 

If Tom played for another club, we would be saying "lets look at McDonald to help Weideman". 

12 minutes ago, Jaded said:

There are bound to be clubs interested in him, who can back themselves to get him right physically and mentally.

He is a 28 year old key position player, who can play both forward and back. He is in bad form, and his body seems shot, but honestly there will always be takers for his type. Not sure what we would get back, but if both parties want out, I am sure it can be done. 

If Tom played for another club, we would be saying "lets look at McDonald to help Weideman". 

Ok list me some 28 year olds from other teams that aren't in their teams best 22 that have been affected by injuries that Melbourne would be interested in?

22 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

Ok list me some 28 year olds from other teams that aren't in their teams best 22 that have been affected by injuries that Melbourne would be interested in?

Not all 28, but how about when we brought in Kade Kolodjashnij (25) and Harley Bennell (27), or when we re-signed vandenBerg (28) despite injury, Lewis was 30 when we traded him in (no big injury problems, but obviously not best 22 anymore given the trade value), and none of them are key position players; for which there's always greater interest.

It's a very black and white view you take seemingly. Not every trade is a blockbuster where a team trades out a top 10 pick for a 'best 22' player.

Jenkins was no longer in the Crows best 22, yet he found a new home via trade.

Edited September 17, 20204 yr by Lord Nev

On 9/16/2020 at 9:20 AM, Moonshadow said:

Is Tmac really on $700-800k?

Wow 

Here lies the problem if true. We would be lucky to get an Iced Vo Vo for him and probably half of the same for O Mac.

I reckon both are cooked! 

On 9/16/2020 at 11:48 AM, Pulp Fritschon said:

Send Tmac to North for Polec. Both contracted on good coin and on the outer. 

I know he is on the outer - but why is Polec on the outer?

4 minutes ago, Engorged Onion said:

I know he is on the outer - but why is Polec on the outer?

He got dropped after the Carlton game - Media made some connection that he was supposed to play a defensive game on Cripps and Shaw didn't rate it. Assume they don't rate him defensively/team first attitude ect. He actually got coaches votes in that game. Assume only by Teague. 

To me he is the guy they Viney and Oliver would handball to after they gather the ball in close. He has a nice step and change of direction. 

I wouldnt give up much to get him but a swap of sorts with Tmac would work

4 minutes ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

He got dropped after the Carlton game - Media made some connection that he was supposed to play a defensive game on Cripps and Shaw didn't rate it. Assume they don't rate him defensively/team first attitude ect. He actually got coaches votes in that game. Assume only by Teague. 

To me he is the guy they Viney and Oliver would handball to after they gather the ball in close. He has a nice step and change of direction. 

I wouldnt give up much to get him but a swap of sorts with Tmac would work

They need a ruckman apparently....Preuss for Polec haha?

25 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Not all 28, but how about when we brought in Kade Kolodjashnij (25) and Harley Bennell (27), or when we re-signed vandenBerg (28) despite injury, Lewis was 30 when we traded him in (no big injury problems, but obviously not best 22 anymore given the trade value), and none of them are key position players; for which there's always greater interest.

It's a very black and white view you take seemingly. Not every trade is a blockbuster where a team trades out a top 10 pick for a 'best 22' player.

Jenkins was no longer in the Crows best 22, yet he found a new home via trade.

I don't question that other clubs would be interested in him but it's just a loose term for interest. He probably wouldn't command a draft pick in the top 40 for him.

3 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

I don't question that other clubs would be interested in him but it's just a loose term for interest. He probably wouldn't command a draft pick in the top 40 for him.

Yep, agree mate. Value would not be high at all, his contract would also have an impact and then there's the case of him passing a medical.

4 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

I don't question that other clubs would be interested in him but it's just a loose term for interest. He probably wouldn't command a draft pick in the top 40 for him.

If so that is about what we picked him at. he has given good service, nice bloke, but if we could get a trade i dont think we are losing anything when you look at how the team is shaping. Even if we keep Tom , most would agree we still need another good key forward.

Do we really think McDonald would pass the vet check?  

TMac has gone from being a very good player (2018) to someone who can barely move (2019 onwards).   That's not form, his body is cooked. 

Any trade hinges on his medical. My 0 years medical training/33 years football watching say injuries have ruined him.  We may not be able to trade him out. 

18 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

They need a ruckman apparently....Preuss for Polec haha?

Haha Preuss does have some currency to the right club. GWS must be desperate. They could cough up something good - Jye Caldwell could be of interest to us if Viney/Brayshaw leave. 

2 minutes ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

Haha Preuss does have some currency to the right club. GWS must be desperate. They could cough up something good - Jye Caldwell could be of interest to us if Viney/Brayshaw leave. 

Would take Perryman also, not getting paid a heap with other stars taking the lions share of money.  Their list is rich pickings, surely we can nab a decent player from them!

Any trade out the MFC will be paying a 1/2 to 2/3 of his deal, another club would be crazy to take him on with all the cap changes.

the one thing that I'm excited about this off season is that it seems the fans and the club are on the same page with what we need. Speed and skills and a key forward. For once, i'm confident the club can identify our needs.

Despite the criticism of May and Lever initially, it was comforting to know that the mfc knew that Oscar McDonald's couldn't be our key defender.

19 hours ago, grazman said:

You missed Darren Bennett and Jacka,  also one of my favourites that never took off - David Cordner.  Very unlucky indeed.

Ross Dillon was a great forward and a master of the chf region. He went back to Adelaide and continued to 'star' at a time when the SA teams were rolling with great coaches, players and multiple club developments. 

Cordner was 'good' but not at the same level as his ancestry. He never seemed to work 'hard enough' to progress, yet he certainly had talent - it was just lightly applied. 

Darren Bennett - I considered him to be the classic forward. An amazing, straight- line lead exponent, a huge man who used his body to perfection against opponents including his locomotive appearance and presence in a pack, and possibly one of the best kicks for goal around at distances between 45 and 60 metres out. Largely ignored at the arrival of Jacovich and his unique style - and effectiveness - but Bennett, what a player to have in reserve! Bennett and Tilbrook, the best kicks ever (with other flaws). 

47 minutes ago, Pulp Fritschon said:

To me he is the guy they Viney and Oliver would handball to after they gather the ball in close. He has a nice step and change of direction. 

I wouldnt give up much to get him but a swap of sorts with Tmac would work

Spot on! He also finds targets across distances and has great run and carry.

1 hour ago, picket fence said:

Here lies the problem if true. We would be lucky to get an Iced Vo Vo for him and probably half of the same for O Mac.

I reckon both are cooked! 

Lots of people like Iced Vo Vos, picket!

The long and short of it is that supporters are rightfully fed up with T-Mac's continuous fluctuation in form over the entirety of his career. 

One outstanding year as a forward in 2018 and I remember one great year as a defender. That's not good enough for someone of his age and experience now. Injuries are not the cause of Tom's woeful efforts earlier this year. His marking, touch, intensity, contest and pressure were below the level and ultimately got him dropped. 

Tom is unfortunately the type of player who simply hasn't bridged the gap between his best and worst performances. His worst are truly baffling for someone of his age and experience. 

A player I'm definitely comfortable parting ways with if it allows us a pick that can be used to help us bring in someone like Zac Williams.

2 minutes ago, JimmyGadson said:

One outstanding year as a forward in 2018 and I remember one great year as a defender.

he's a typical melbourne player; has his best seasons in contract years