POSTGAME: Rd 13 vs Western Bulldogs

[old55 23,347]

The Dogs are a very talented young side, they're better than they were in 2016 and they're back to full strength with Hunter and Naughton in the side.  They were better than us because they probably ARE better than us, particularly with Maxy out.  They wouldn't have been able to get away with that ruck set-up against Max and it's true we weren't able to adjust to it. They haven't got their game going until now this year, it's going to be interesting to see how they go against the Cats and the Eagles in the next two.  We can't win the flag but we can still make finals.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, Pollyanna said:

 We can't win the flag but we can still make finals.

I agree, but it would be also nice to think that we can make some noise if we got there, and not just make up the numbers.

Sadly, I'm not sure I can see that happening this year.  It would be nice to make it but would feel pretty hollow if we got knocked out easily in the first week.

We have time in our side to potentially make changes, but that also sounds hollow as I feel as though we discuss that most weeks.

[Ted Lasso 19,223]

What today really highlighted to me is the double edge Sword that is Jack Viney, at times he looked like the only midfielder that's having a go, but wow does he upset the overall system of the midfield. 

it's a really interesting one because he's genuine quality but he's also a serious challenge for the coaches. he went in head first and he either wins it, or he's caught outnumbered and the dogs wisk it away. and because of the way he plays it's hard for guys to get in and support him. 

he turns us from a system based midfield to a chaotic rush it forward midfield. 

[dazzledavey36 54,123]

58 minutes ago, A F said:

Hang on, hang on, mate.

Hibbo turned the ball over a bit and Harmes didn't get much of it. Agree Melksham, Fritsch and McDonald were poor, but the midfield group and the forward group didn't work hard enough. Nothing to do with Plan B. Execute on the game plan. We didn't. 

I named 3 forwars who were simply poor. Yes Hannan and Spargo were not much better. It's highly disappointing how easy their backs were able to waltze out of their backing with zero pressure.

Our mids don't get a free ride either.  Not only did they fail to apply any pressure, but failed once again to capitalise on ruckman dominance. How is this not been rectified after so many weeks??

Brayshaw was poor, Viney is all about himself, bloke thinks he Jona Lomu half the time. Oliver too was poor and Petracca butchered at times.

Lever, May and Tomlinson to a degree were our best.

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

You know its a bad day when you cant kick the ball over Caleb Daniels head.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

38 minutes ago, CYB said:

Today we lost by 28 points. 2 goals wasted with touched on the mark, Fristch misses one directly in front - kicks out on the full. Then weed puts some might action on the kick making bend like Beckham. Whilst Wallis kicks one from the boundary. Most of the game stats were equal with exception to uncontested disposals.
 

We got beaten on the outside but that was always going to happen. Always. It will happen next week as well as with any team in the top 6. We lack outside width and class - it is a gaping, gaping hole and one that if we don’t fill will never let this team be as successful as it could be. It’s the final missing piece.
 

We need to go after Hunter and/or Williams with every dollar we have. Need to clear the dead weight off our list to free up cap space to find the 1 - 1.2 M required to make that happen. Otherwise we will always be a 12-6 team.

You can still play man on man for stints when the opp gets a run on and/or when you want to make every contest a contest at stoppages and the drop.  I'm watching the Hawks do it right now and they have just drawn level with top of the table Power in this match by doing just that at 3/4 time!  No one gave them a chance yet it's this game style that's got them into a winning position against all odds.

This club is poorly coached, managed and allows decent opp to take the game away from it far too easily and far too often without a yelp.

Edited August 22, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[Wadda We Sing 10,685]

3 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

What today really highlighted to me is the double edge Sword that is Jack Viney, at times he looked like the only midfielder that's having a go, but wow does he upset the overall system of the midfield. 

it's a really interesting one because he's genuine quality but he's also a serious challenge for the coaches. he went in head first and he either wins it, or he's caught outnumbered and the dogs wisk it away. and because of the way he plays it's hard for guys to get in and support him. 

he turns us from a system based midfield to a chaotic rush it forward midfield. 

Yep, spot on. We all love Viney but his disposal efficiency is bog ordinary. Just continually hacks it forward without looking.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

30 minutes ago, CYB said:

Was his second game mate. Can’t expect him to deliver with the same class as Gawn. The doggies always setup to lose clearance anyway.

So what if it is his second game, I didn't say that he was slow or can't take a mark or kick a ball or use his endurance He can play.

He is fit enough and had support .

Just his tap to, let himself down in that department. However last game he found the midfield often.  What was the difference this week mate?

Thanks for letting me know that Preuss is not in the same class.   The thing is he should have done better in that area.regardless.

[Hogan2014 390]

Skill level of our mids plus defence work from our fwds wasn’t there ... look how easy coming out of fwd line, constant fumbling by our mids even by Petracca, decision making poor in particular last qtr with the wind going short in the middle & turning it over.

[ProperDee 1,698]

24 minutes ago, Half forward flank said:

I reckon its Viney, Petracca Oliver and Brayshaw call on ruck taps. Hardly Preuss fault we lost.

Nowhere did I say it was Preuss’ fault. What I did say was that there is no apparent consultation about where the ruckman will tap the ball to our best advantage.

[old55 23,347]

18 minutes ago, Wiseblood said:

I agree, but it would be also nice to think that we can make some noise if we got there, and not just make up the numbers.

Sadly, I'm not sure I can see that happening this year.  It would be nice to make it but would feel pretty hollow if we got knocked out easily in the first week.

We have time in our side to potentially make changes, but that also sounds hollow as I feel as though we discuss that most weeks.

Agree, but we are still on the improve, we're not going to lose anyone critical out to age - Nev and Jones, and Jackson, Kossie and Rivers can make us better.  Key elements of this outfit haven't played all that much together yet.  The Dogs are the same age bracket as us but are a bit better, I'm confident they'll win flags.

[faultydet 7,594]

We overrate ourselves in the same manner that we bagged North for the past decade. 

We don't have the cattle, coach or ticker. I don't get annoyed any more. I expect this from our blokes. It never changes.

[DemonOX 8,779]

1 hour ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Goody: Hey Richo has the game started yet?

Richo: Yes Simon

Goody: Oh ok I better make a move. 

Richo: Might be a bit late. 

Goody: Why

Richo: The game has finished Simon. 

Goody: Oh bugger oh well at lest we can take some learnings out of it. 

Richo: Yeah that’s a brilliant idea Simon. 

Edited August 22, 2020 by DemonOX

[DemonOX 8,779]

7 minutes ago, faultydet said:

We overrate ourselves in the same manner that we bagged North for the past decade. 

We don't have the cattle, coach or ticker. I don't get annoyed any more. I expect this from our blokes. It never changes.

Faulty I think we do have the list. We just need a game plan to suit it. Again the players look confused due to pressure just like the port game. 
 

We are a club that needs an EXPERIENCED COACH NOT A ROOKIE. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

23 minutes ago, Wadda We Sing said:

Yep, spot on. We all love Viney but his disposal efficiency is bog ordinary. Just continually hacks it forward without looking.

Which is why he should be played (mostly) as a forward.  At least the scoreboard will be turning over.

That he still tries to ram his way through so many contests is a habit that won't be broken at this late stage.

Use him where he's better suited.  The coach can't work this one out (and Harmes) 12 rounds in and 3.5 seasons later?

[The heart beats true 18,090]

40 minutes ago, big_red_fire_engine said:

We traded for Kola for that need and drafted Nietzscke for it as well but have had no luck there. We brought in Langdon to solve it (success) and Tomlinson (not so much) and Bennell if he gets confidence in his body. Who are these players we have missed out on that would have changed our list in that time? Who would you play in the side or play elsewhere that is available to give us more run? Hunt, Baker, Bedford, Chandler and Rivers are really the only ones with toe that might fill the need maybe Bennell but he hasn’t shown it? Seems to be a lot of slinging with no real solutions being offered. Worth reading the 20 pages of selection changes for round 12 thread. Not many if any taking our 3-0 run and requesting changes to resolve our lack of run. Pretty easy to do post game though and drop it on the coach.

I was responding to your comment where you said that it’s not Goodwin’s fault, and then noted us being killed on outside run.

You don’t need to defend the list choices. They’re not yours to defend. But someone will be held to account, and it’ll be the coach, because that’s how the system works. At this point it’s his system, and it don’t work often enough under pressure.

[Half forward flank 1,022]

3 minutes ago, DemonOX said:

Goody: Hey Richo has the game started yet?

Richo: Yes Simon

Goody: Oh ok I better make a move. 

Richo: Might be a bit late. 

Goody: Why

Richo: The game has finished Simon. 

Goody: Oh bugger oh well at lest we can take some learnings out of it. 

Richo: Yeah that’s a brilliant idea Simon. 

Its just a snapshot photo but at least the useless Richardson is looking at the players attitude to the loss.

[buck_nekkid 5,843]

So was that Seek dot com or dot com dot au?

[Graeme Yeats' Mullet 6,772]

I feel ever so slightly better watching the Hawks lose

Especially that it was a close loss, and they got murdered by the umpires

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,291]

53 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

What today really highlighted to me is the double edge Sword that is Jack Viney, at times he looked like the only midfielder that's having a go, but wow does he upset the overall system of the midfield. 

it's a really interesting one because he's genuine quality but he's also a serious challenge for the coaches. he went in head first and he either wins it, or he's caught outnumbered and the dogs wisk it away. and because of the way he plays it's hard for guys to get in and support him. 

he turns us from a system based midfield to a chaotic rush it forward midfield. 

This is one of the best posts I’ve ever read on Demonland. You completely hit the nail on the head. I really feel as though he should be used forward more often and kept out of the midfield, only given bursts in the middle. 

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,762]

2 hours ago, Wiseblood said:

Is that Lever's job, though?  

To me, we want him to defend and to keep their talls under control so they have minimal impact.  He has done that very, very well.  

I'm not fussed about how 'damaging' he is with ball in hand.  Leave that to the others who are supposed to have that impact - Salem, Harmes, Lockhart etc.  

I'd rather him win his one on ones, or to kill a ball as third man up, than to be taking risks with ball in hand.  It isn't his job.

Our back half has been exceptional for most of the year.

Our entire game plan is built on forward pressure - that's where we need to focus our attention. If we get that right, we're very hard to beat.

[Wiseblood 24,637]

2 minutes ago, Cheesy D. Pun said:

Our back half has been exceptional for most of the year.

Our entire game plan is built on forward pressure - that's where we need to focus our attention. If we get that right, we're very hard to beat.

Agree on both fronts.

The only problem with our back half is Harmes.  Hibberd had a bit of a shocker on Wallis today, but he has some points in the bank over the last few months and no one will play the perfect game every week.  But I still wonder what Harmes is doing there and if they will continue to persist with it.  Time is running out.

And just when we thought the forward line was clicking, they revert to their previous form.  We contested relatively well in the air but we stunk it up when the ball hit the ground and then we didn't work hard enough to win it back.  As you say, up the pressure and we are hard to beat, but we have to be far more consistent with it, especially against the better sides.

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

2 hours ago, Queanbeyan Demon said:

Every time the camera panned to Goodwin in the box he had a 'how did that happen?' look on his face. It started to annoy me no end.

[Deecisive 1,709]

i dont know how many years i have been seeing teams like footscray, st kilda and a host of other teams take the ball from the kickin all the way down the field and score a goal against us without a melbourne player touching it.  i hate this zone concept. we let the opposition take an easy kick in, the guy who kicks it in runs by to receive the handpass and continue to use their spare man all the way down the field.  Why give any side any easy kicks. We should challenge them for every ball, kick, mark, tackle.

why when we can see it is so hard to kick it in when everyones covered do not do the same to our opposition is beyond me. what is the reason for allowing the dogs to virtually unchallenged from defense into attack.

I must say i was very disappointed with Preuss, for all of his dominance in the ruck it was worth stuff all to us in getting the ball into our mid-fields arms or on the scoreboard. Dogs go in the understanding that they are not going to have to win the ruck contests, though i must say Preuss did palm it straight into their arms quite a lots. 

They won possession after possession at stoppages because they handpassed well to each other and could always find someone who's melbourne opponent was standing off from them allowing to break away.

while pickett did not do a lot of damage he did get a couple of points and did pressure, the kid is young, i would keep playing him because he is a future champ. just wish he could learn how to tackle instead of pushing players in the back.

I wonder which melbourne is going to show up next week.

 

[Wiseblood 24,637]

1 minute ago, Deecisive said:

i dont know how many years i have been seeing teams like footscray, st kilda and a host of other teams take the ball from the kickin all the way down the field and score a goal against us without a melbourne player touching it.  i hate this zone concept.

 

I don't.  It's been excellent for us for most of the season.

The midfield and forward line pressure were the issue today.  Had nothing to do with the zone.