On 12/08/2020 at 10:34, ProperDee said:

Max on crutches? Torn PCL suspected? WTF! 
I knew our good run with injuries would come back and bite us.

Where's this coming from. he was walking around the rooms Saturday night unaided 

Bring in the Beast Preuss GIVE HIM A GO !....... if Gawn doesn't make it. Why have him on the list if he can't get a game .

Here is his chance to see what he can give to the team.  He is well worth the risk  and can  match it with Grundy if he plays.

We have sufficient cover in this department and we have shown on numerous occasions we can cope without Max.

Give the great man the rest he needs, why would we rush him back at this junction of the season?

I agree with posters suggesting 1 game in a 12 v 12 scratch match isn't enough for Pruessy to come back just yet.

Was quiet happy with the way Tmac and Action worked in tandem.

Was told by phone 10 minutes ago.  The source is generally good.

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by ProperDee

  On 12/08/2020 at 09:04, monoccular said:

Jackson, particularly, around the ground vs Grundy could be a fascinating contest.  

Indeed it is, Grundy is one ruckman who would come close to Jacko once the ball hits the deck. Will totally out body him of Jacko can’t get that jump at the ball he did last week.

  On 12/08/2020 at 10:40, ProperDee said:

Was told by phone 10 minutes ago.  The source is generally good.

The game was a week ago, why wouldn't it have been diagnosed before now.

  On 12/08/2020 at 08:57, Lord Nev said:

It was reported by various outlets leading up to the North game that Gawn played the Crows with a sore knee. I also seem to recall it being mentioned by the commentary team during the Crows game.

I never said McHenry caused his knee to get worse, but pretty clearly playing a full game, and one where you're being targeted physically, is not exactly going to make you less sore.

Yes, you're correct, he literally said he put his hand up to play and of course he did, that's what AFL captains are expected to do. We've made that mistake before with Viney. I mean really, do you honestly believe a captain and star player for a struggling team in a week where they've been absolutely smashed and his coach is under fire is going to say 'you know what, I'm a bit sore, better sit this one out'.... It just does not happen.

I have it on VERY good authority Gawn was told to miss two games due to the lat injury. Burgess is famously not conservative, so that obviously wasn't by him.

I find it incredibly strange that footy fans here think any player (let alone a captain) wouldn't declare themselves ready to play at every opportunity.

Gawn also said: “There is that added (responsibility) from the captain to potentially go out there and perform."

I can find reports suggesting he had a sore knee after the Adelaide game. None from before.

Yes he said he put his hand up to play. What he also said was that the club took medical advice.

You may well have a good source to suggest he was told to sit out and he chose not to. But I don't, and you didn't mention that last post. Based on what I've read, I'm comfortable with what happened. If it turns out he was told to sit out and decided not to, that's different, but again, not a reason to complain about the PCL.

  On 12/08/2020 at 10:34, ProperDee said:

Max on crutches? Torn PCL suspected? WTF! 
I knew our good run with injuries would come back and bite us.

If there is a team that can cover a ruckman it's us. We have Jacko and Preuss.

It wasn’t just a matter of saving Godwin’s bacon. The Adelaide game was a must win. We lose that and the season is shot, not to mention the draining effect on the playing group and the club. Losing that game was not an option. The decision to play Max sits fine with me.

We can handle the pies without him. 

  On 12/08/2020 at 11:04, P-man said:

It wasn’t just a matter of saving Godwin’s bacon. The Adelaide game was a must win. We lose that and the season is shot, not to mention the draining effect on the playing group and the club. Losing that game was not an option. The decision to play Max sits fine with me.

We can handle the pies without him. 

Absolutely. The Captain knew it was a must win and did what he had to do. 

  On 12/08/2020 at 11:01, titan_uranus said:

I can find reports suggesting he had a sore knee after the Adelaide game. None from before.

Yes he said he put his hand up to play. What he also said was that the club took medical advice.

You may well have a good source to suggest he was told to sit out and he chose not to. But I don't, and you didn't mention that last post. Based on what I've read, I'm comfortable with what happened. If it turns out he was told to sit out and decided not to, that's different, but again, not a reason to complain about the PCL.

Sorry, should have given more detail around that, I posted it in the thread about Gawn being in doubt for the Crows fame.

TBF to everyone, it's a really tricky one. It's easy for a few of us here to say 'he shouldn't play' and then add 'see, he shouldn't have played' after the damage is done, but the context of footy club culture, being a captain, our club and it's circumstances, the coaches position being under fire somewhat and all the rest makes it a bit more messy than just a simple yes or no.

I would have been among the many who were up in arms if we had lost to the Crows too, so it's a bit of a no-win situation.

I guess what I'm trying to say is, I don't agree with how it was handled, it's not what a good club would do, BUT I also understand we're not really at that stage yet and maybe we have to take these gambles sometimes.

Let's not forget though, we're smashing out an incredibly compacted period of footy and have been riding on the back of a clearly very banged up and sore captain who has had multiple knee injuries, and to both knees, with one as recently as this year.

We wait and see how it all pans out I guess.

  On 12/08/2020 at 05:54, Engorged Onion said:

@chookrat - im not trying to be flippant... so collingwood plan for contingencies. Then an hour prior, the confirm Gawn is or is not playing... they then go through there list of what they need to do in 'said' situation.

I'd argue there is no competitive advantage...it's not particularly effortful for them.

It's as straightforward as, is it raining yes/no  - long stops or short ones?

BUT, help me understand what the competitive advantage is from your perspective.

I would think not knowing till a short time before is possibly more psychological than just a black & white meh...he is / he isn't EO.

Each player has their strengths / weaknesses as we know and opp players / teams try to set their game / set ups to try and counter or in some cases take advantage of them (Gawny's preferred tap out zones vs say Pruess)

Adding another ruckman to the mix isn't going to set them back in a big way as you say, but, it does throw another layer of detail into the mix and i would guess many footy players probably prefer to know and set themselves on a particular player / strat to counter/combat etc a fair way ahead of the actual game.

As is often the case at this level, the game is about small incremental wins/advantages/percentages over your opponent, rather than a big home run or two.

Will the late notice have any effect, nil effect?  Who knows.  Is it worth trying to ring every possible bit of incremental advantage you can over your opponent, even a minor psychological one?  You bet.

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by Rusty Nails

  On 12/08/2020 at 10:39, nosoupforme said:

Bring in the Beast Preuss GIVE HIM A GO !....... if Gawn doesn't make it. Why have him on the list if he can't get a game .

Here is his chance to see what he can give to the team.  He is well worth the risk  and can  match it with Grundy if he plays.

I said the same last week and ended up with egg on my face.  But... i still think he's worth a place if he's up to 75%ish game time.  Have to leave that up to the experts from here though.  Maybe he isn't just yet, hence the T-Mac fill in?

  On 12/08/2020 at 08:09, binman said:

I take Nasher's point about Burgess being an expert and obviously Maxy ok to play and not too much risk of damaging his lat further.

But again i question the decision making of the FD, specifically goody's.

Even without the lat injury maxy has carried a massive load this season, barely been off the ground and as goody said himself after the crows game teams have been deliberately smashing him all season. An of course did gain in the crows game. 

Given his importance to our side surely the smart play is to rest him for both the crows and roos game. One to give him much needed rest. And two to avoid the risk of an injury.

I''m to fitness knowledge what martin pakula is to quarantine (paging Webber) but my understanding is fatigue increases the risk of injury and blind freddy could see that, even without a scan showing a back injury, maxy could have done with a rest. It is not as we didn't have options.

We were 3-5 we didn't have the luxury of resting players. If we were 5-3 it might've been a different story

  On 12/08/2020 at 08:18, Nasher said:

I could accept that Goodwin and co took a risk with Gawn, but there’s absolutely no way I can accept they took more risk than they otherwise would have purely so Goodwin could save his own bacon. Firstly that’s a low level of integrity I’m not prepared to accuse the coach of when he’s not here to defend himself, and secondly if he was really in that much trouble (which I also don’t accept), then a cheap Gawn-lead win against Adelaide wouldn’t make much difference in the long run. 

The more logical answer is they did it because they thought he’d be right - ie a calculated risk rather than a reckless one. It’s first grade nonsense to suggest it’s a Goodwin-lead conspiracy. 

I agree. It's annoying though to hear it happened late in the Adelaide game. Gawn already went in injured, was getting smashed all game and has been running himself into the ground and getting smashed all year.

Hindsight is a wonderful thing but surely he could've sat out most of the last quarter after we kicked the first couple (I am assuming it happened after that)

Forget Preuss.

  On 12/08/2020 at 11:55, Dr. Gonzo said:

We were 3-5 we didn't have the luxury of resting players. If we were 5-3 it might've been a different story

Then why did rest kozzie?

  On 12/08/2020 at 11:55, Dr. Gonzo said:

We were 3-5 we didn't have the luxury of resting players. If we were 5-3 it might've been a different story

Which, when reflecting on the Geelong and Brisbane losses, could easily be the story of our entire 2020 season.

Grundy to me has looked tired the last couple of games & after a four day break will def not be the Grundy of old. They are also missing 4 key players ...I’d be disappointed if we don’t put them away even without Gawn. 

  On 12/08/2020 at 12:01, binman said:

Then why did rest kozzie?

1st year player/small forward vs captain/ruckman/top 3 player

Edit - let's say we didn't have the luxury of resting our best players

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by Dr. Gonzo

What is the big deal?

If/when Max is assessed as fit, I am sure he will be named in the team. I believe that was the case before the Adelaide game. He was assessed, found to be fit to play and played. The fact that he injured a knee, in no way related to his shoulder injury, towards the end of the game is not relevant. 

When the selectors sit down to put together a team for Saturday I am sure that the first question asked will be "Is Max fit?". Selections will then be made dependent upon the answer.

Rinse and repeat next week.

 

  On 12/08/2020 at 12:05, Dr. Gonzo said:

1st year player/small forward vs captain/ruckman/top 3 player

Edit - let's say we didn't have the luxury of resting our best players

But kozzie is clearly in goody's best 22. Id say best 11. In a must win game you don't rest a best 22 player.

  On 12/08/2020 at 12:23, binman said:

But kozzie is clearly in goody's best 22. Id say best 11. In a must win game you don't rest a best 22 player.

I don't agree that it's the same thing but each to their own

I am less concerned about Max not playing, than I am about Pendles playing.

If Pendles plays, he and Sidebotton will set them up for goals time and again.

Roughead went off after a heavy head knock on tuesday and will be very doubtful.

Possibly Lynden gets to play against his old club.

  On 12/08/2020 at 12:28, Dr. Gonzo said:

I don't agree that it's the same thing but each to their own

Agree its not the same thing.

But surely we didn't really assess the selection of maxy as critical to a win versus the crows, particularly given we had almost a full list to choose from.

They had not won a game.

They had a percentage of 55.

They made 9 changes.

Their one star was out and spargo could have competed against their ruck.

The roos are as better team, with one of the best rucks in the AFL and we beat them by the same margin with no max

The risk reward ratio was all out of wack.

It was a pretty important game for the pies finals chances too. And they had four of their best out. And elected to rest arguably their most important player.

And I'm not being Harry hindsight. I said we should rest him prior to crows game.

Edited August 12, 20204 yr by binman