CHANGES: Rd 12 vs Collingwood

[Lucifers Hero 39,717]

11 hours ago, Kick_It_To_Pickett said:

I see many calling for Jones to be dropped next week. I am interested to know what it is people aren’t liking about him at the moment.

I understand that he doesn’t get a lot of the ball these days, but I thought that, at times, he composed himself when the other mids turned too helter skelter and set up some nice link play.

I am unsure why so many are critical of him. He seems to play his role.

He had zero stats for the first quarter.  Stats aren't the be all, end all.  He idles around for parts of the game.  In another game (Carlton?) he had no stats for the last quarter.  It can happen to anyone but we can't afford a player who does that on a regular basis.

He improved after that and had an impact.  But overall not sure he did enough to keep his spot. 

Doubt it is smart to take him into the Pies game after 4 games in the last 2 weeks if fresher players available. 

Edited August 10, 2020 by Lucifer's Hero

[binman 42,842]

9 hours ago, DeeSpencer said:

But he’s an aging midfield playing wing/forward. If we’re a decent side we’ll have better options 

Yes. And the obvious option is Tomlinson. After all that is exactly the role we got him o the club to play.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

9 hours ago, rjay said:

Hasn't worked for us, it's not bollocks.

It's only bollocks when you have 3 good ones.

We don't.

It's about balance. You could have three talls if you had 2-3 genuine small forwards alongside them.

We rely on a range of mid-sized forwards and only one small forward, so 3 talls makes us far too slow and suceptible to the rebound. 

This off season is massive for us. We absolutely have to bring in more small forwards - our game plan has been designed for a fast, high pressure forward line but we're one or two players short of being able to execute it against good opposition.

[Tracca 848]

12 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Spargo?? Are you serious? He had 7 score involvements and barely wasted the ball.

Did some actually watched tonights game?

Spargo was fantastic imo, crazy our one eyed supporters would drop him

[dazzledavey36 54,802]

9 minutes ago, Caligula's cohort said:

Actually he gave away a free kick last week for pushing an opponent in the back while he was already down, and yesterday he ran through the mark. Were they brain fades? yes... but he'll learn from that. Jones was cooked 2 years ago, he's impact on games these days is minimal and not even VFL standard. Vanders overcomes injury after injury and just needs a clean run at it. Cooked? hardly...

He's 28 going onto 29. He's not going to get any better or quicker. Regardless if he has a clear run He's not going to get much better anytime soon.

He's cooked, wait until he plays on a wing against the likes of Brad Hill who will expose him for his lack of speed and outside spread.

He was at 55% disposal effiency. That is below average.

Edited August 10, 2020 by dazzledavey36

[Dr.D 1,771]

If Brayshaw played a full season in the real midfield I'm confident he'd be a top 10 brownlow finisher. 

And this is why Goodwin agitates me. He was:

1: Wayyyyyy too slow to bring Weideman in.

2. Wayy too slow to take Oscar out.

3. Negligent for not putting Brayshaw in his natural position and stunted his development since 2018.

4. Never trialled anything in game. Against Port Adelaide I'm sure fans would've liked to have seen May in the forward line, or Lever on a wing or whatever. Something! Throw the bloody magnets around Simon for Christ's sake!

5. And just his overall game style has proven ineffective for our playing list. And he's been unable to get the most out of the players. 

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,734]

2 minutes ago, Dr.D said:

If Brayshaw played a full season in the real midfield I'm confident he'd be a top 10 brownlow finisher. 

And this is why Goodwin agitates me. He was:

1: Wayyyyyy too slow to bring Weideman in.

2. Wayy too slow to take Oscar out.

3. Negligent for not putting Brayshaw in his natural position and stunted his development since 2018.

4. Never trialled anything in game. Against Port Adelaide I'm sure fans would've liked to have seen May in the forward line, or Lever on a wing or whatever. Something! Throw the bloody magnets around Simon for Christ's sake!

5. And just his overall game style has proven ineffective for our playing list. And he's been unable to get the most out of the players. 

You may be right. But the alternative argument might be that Weideman would not be playing as well as he is now if he had been brought back sooner. We will never know.

[WERRIDEE 5,468]

1 hour ago, chookrat said:

I reckon this could be right as Jones/Sparrow are competing for same spot and with Jackson playing well and looking better every week, I reckon he offers more than Tom MacDonald on current form. Who would have thought 3 - 4 years ago we'd have such depth that Nathan Jones and Tom MacDonald would be in and out of the side.

I thought Pickett and Spargo offered alot as half/small forwards with smart kicking in our forward half.

Another one I'd consider is whether to play Harmes or Tomlinson as a half back/utility based on team balance.

Vanders could be in trouble his form hasn't been great so it's either him or Jones. Harmes is another who could be in trouble if they want to play Lockhart. Tomlinson stays at CHB I think he has been alright in that position.

[Cheesy D. Pun 1,765]

4 minutes ago, binman said:

Yes. And the obvious option is Tomlinson. After all that is exactly the role we got him o the club to play.

Tomlinson is really poor around the ball. Doesn't crash in and avoids contact. Watch the Richmond game - he was so poor that he was almost the difference in that game.

He was in and out of the GWS side and while he can run all day, his inconsistency around contest makes him hard to trust. Playing him back comes across as an act of desperation from the coaching staff.

[Tracca 848]

11 hours ago, Coq au vin said:

Jones has been a liability for a long time. He picks out an opposition player and kicks or hand passes it directly to him. Tomlinson is slow and contributed nothing tonight. If Viney is right he should come into the side to replace Jones. Gawn should only come back in if completely recovered from his injury. What about considering Bennell or Jetta for selection? It doesn’t always have to be a like for like swap. Players can be shifted around. And what has happened to Mitch Brown and Preuss? What was the point of recruiting them if we’re never going to play them?

We got Brown for backup along with Preuss, and they should be used for just that...

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

2 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's 28 going onto 29. He's not going to get any better or quicker. Regardless if he has a clear run He's not going to get much better anytime soon.

He's cooked, wait until he plays on a wing against the likes of Brad Hill who will expose him for his lack of speed and outside spread.

He just came back from a broken foot a month ago and before that another foot injury that kept him out all of last year. He was one of our standout performers in the pre season prior to injury. I think you critique Vanders quite harshly. I don't see Baker knocking down the door to take his spot and Jones/Tomlinson has had no more impact on the wing than Vanders so for now he keeps his spot until we have a better option. Maybe Harmes or Hunt is the go?

[dazzledavey36 54,802]

2 minutes ago, Caligula's cohort said:

He just came back from a broken foot a month ago and before that another foot injury that kept him out all of last year. He was one of our standout performers in the pre season prior to injury. I think you critique Vanders quite harshly. I don't see Baker knocking down the door to take his spot and Jones/Tomlinson has had no more impact on the wing than Vanders so for now he keeps his spot until we have a better option. Maybe Harmes or Hunt is the go?

How is Baker suppose to knock the door down when he was left behind in Melbourne.  Personally yes I would like Baker on that wing because he showed glimpses last year with his run and carry.

I personally think they need to try Hunt one last time, his career is at the cross roads and his speed on the outside is vital.

[Pickett2Jackson 3,904]

Pendlebury will be 50-50 for the game.    They could be missing Pendles, DeGoey, Howe....    while we get Gawn and Viney back.

And the biggest factor is the Pies are off a 4 day break vs our 6.       Gotta win.

[titan_uranus 24,989]

1 minute ago, Altona-demon said:

The team looked relatively balanced to me - but a few performance stood out as lacklustre.

 

1. James Harmes - fumbling, poor disposal, and free kicks. He's down on form - and looks lost across the half-back line, although admittedly is finding himself in good positions. 

2. Nathan Jones - he's cooked, let's give that position to someone a bit more hungry for the ball and with much more run.  Watched the tape back again this morning, and his lack of run and aggression is noticeable.  Been a great servant, but I think he needs to have a rest and is at this stage a depth player. 

 

Underrated performances perhaps:

1. Langdon  - continues to run into great positions and dispose poorly.  If he can clean that disposal up, could be very damaging.  He can kick, there was a great example when he got back into the defensive pocket to support and managed to release pressure with a 30-40m laser kick to I think Salem.  More of that please entering forward 50.

2. Christian Salem - once again, everywhere and in everything - he is SO crucial to the back half and rebound of the footy team.  Although interestingly Jake Lever is starting to support in that role (think Jake is really coming into his own now)

 

Criminally underrated on here.

Yes, he fumbles it. But his positioning on the wing and his exceptional gut-running mean he's routinely available to provide assistance in both defence and offence.

He is so, so important. If he improves the fumbling and starts kicking goals, he becomes elite IMO.

[Kick_It_To_Pickett 3,292]

23 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

He had zero stats for the first quarter.  Stats aren't the be all, end all.  He idles around for parts of the game.  In another game (Carlton?) he had no stats for the last quarter.  It can happen to anyone but we can't afford a player who does that on a regular basis.

He improved after that and had an impact.  But overall not sure he did enough to keep his spot. 

Doubt it is smart to take him into the Pies game after 4 games in the last 2 weeks if fresher players available. 

How does his stats compare to AVB. I don’t see him do enough either and often his possessions are very messy and result in turnovers. 

[Tracca 848]

5 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

How is Baker suppose to knock the door down when he was left behind in Melbourne.  Personally yes I would like Baker on that wing because he showed glimpses last year with his run and carry.

I personally think they need to try Hunt one last time, his career is at the cross roads and his speed on the outside is vital.

Id put Harmes on the wing before Hunt imo. I do like Hunt but hes an athlete before a footballer unfortunately. 

Harmes has runs on the board on the wing, use him to his strengths if not in the middle. Playing him off HBF is a waste.

 

I would actually rather Viney play on the wing rotating with gus in the midfield dependant on match ups etc

[Bendigo Demon 115]

13 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Lever potentially has a hand injury of some kind. Second hand info, but apparently was hoding it behind his back post-match and not shaking hands, high-fiving etc. Fingers crossed it's nothing.

OUT: vandenBerg, Harmes, Jones, (TMac if Gawn plays)

 

IN: Viney, Lockhart, Bennell, (Gawn if fit)

 

vandenBerg with 11 disposals - 4 turnovers, 6 clangers. Must be dropped.

 

Yes, I noticed Lever hiding his hand behind his back while shaking hands etc afterwards.

[Caligula's cohort 1,014]

11 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

How is Baker suppose to knock the door down when he was left behind in Melbourne.  Personally yes I would like Baker on that wing because he showed glimpses last year with his run and carry.

I personally think they need to try Hunt one last time, his career is at the cross roads and his speed on the outside is vital.

I thought the entire team went up once the restrictions were put in place. Initially the depth players were left behind. 

Agreed on Hunt, he's looking like trade bait right now which is a shame because we all know how good he can be. 

[Hogans Demons 41]

13 hours ago, WERRIDEE said:

IN: GAWN, VINEY

OUT: JONES, TOMMY

Gee people are quick to discard Jones. Was a different story with Jordan Lewis who was similarly done, Jones when playing fwd of the ball has the smarts to put players to advantage.

For me.

Out- Tmac Tomlinson Harmes (If the Pies play Cox)

IN- Gawn Viney Omac

 

I can't actually see what a 6ft4 winger who is about as physical a pensioners fart brings to our team.

Tmac was ok, but 3 Key Forwards at the Gabba does not work!

Harmes might just need a spell, wake up call to reset himself for the back half.

[drdrake 3,163]

Best thing is we have 6 days off.  It wouldn't hurt us for Jackson to run with Grundy if Gawn is still injured, Grundy is the similar type of player to Jackson, and would be a great learning experience for him.

Viney comes in for AVB, AVB is off the mark at the moment and needs a spell.

Tmac for Gawn if fit.

[ManDee 7,134]

He did this then he did that. On the other hand he was better than last time. He should be dropped. He should play next round. He was concussed. A small request, could you mention a name at least once so we know who he is. You know who I am talking about.

[jumbo returns 6,741]

34 minutes ago, Tracca said:

We got Brown for backup along with Preuss, and they should be used for just that...

I’d rather the team play two players less if these two are the only option

[Lord Travis 10,726]

47 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

He's 28 going onto 29. He's not going to get any better or quicker. Regardless if he has a clear run He's not going to get much better anytime soon.

He's cooked, wait until he plays on a wing against the likes of Brad Hill who will expose him for his lack of speed and outside spread.

He was at 55% disposal effiency. That is below average.

100% agreed. Vanders at his best was a fringe player. His output since returning to the side has been rubbish. He directly costs us goals every week out of stupidity. He barely touches the ball and when he does he couldn't hit the side of a barn. The game has sped up this past few years, but he has gotten slower due to repeated foot injuries. He reads the game poorly and barely gets to lay any of those big bone crunching tackles because he now can't keep up in the first place. There's a lot of love on here for Vanders, but I'd drop him on form. At 28 and slowing up, I'm not sure he has much of a role to play going forward. The 3 year contract was yet another glaring list management mistake.

For this match I'd have the following changes;
IN: Gawn, Viney, maybe Lockhart
OUT: Jones, Vandenburg, ??

Gawn and Viney straight in if fit. Lockhart had the hip issue, but I'd bring him back if fit also. Think Jones and Vandenburg have been poor this year, moreso Vanders. Harmes has had a poor few weeks, but wouldn't drop him.

[rjay 24,916]

31 minutes ago, titan_uranus said:

Criminally underrated on here.

Yes, he fumbles it. But his positioning on the wing and his exceptional gut-running mean he's routinely available to provide assistance in both defence and offence.

He is so, so important. If he improves the fumbling and starts kicking goals, he becomes elite IMO.

Spot on...he's been massive for us.

Just runs his guts out.

Will only improve.

One of the recruits of the year.

[Hellaintabadplacetobe 4,294]

39 minutes ago, Pickett2Jackson said:

Pendlebury will be 50-50 for the game.    They could be missing Pendles, DeGoey, Howe....    while we get Gawn and Viney back.

And the biggest factor is the Pies are off a 4 day break vs our 6.       Gotta win.

Treloar is a massive out for them too. Hoskin Elliot to a lesser extent.

Sidebottom is THE danger man,  also they have good runners off halfback in Crisp and Maynard is having a great year. Nullify these 3 and win.