Simon knows what is wrong?

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

Long suffering/supporting Demon whose heart beats red and blue. I reckon I been reading this forum pretty avidly for last five to six years, was certainly overdue to subscribe!

I watch every Melbourne match twice.  Somewhat glutton for punishment, but I find I see quite a bit more second time around without the vested emotion of win or a loss on the line.  It actually baffles me as to why our coaching collective can't find a solution to ignite this team.   There is a fairly simple solution that I can see that would change the whole vibe of the way we play.

Our transition since 6-6-6 has been fairly abysmal, our fall since then or maybe that Prelim vs West Coast has been on a downward trajectory.  Short of Petracca there does not seem to be much individual improvement. Our team looks great on paper this year. Our game style, not so much..... Until we fix what we seem to have seemingly forgotten what made us a revelation in 2018. In all the analysis I have seen of Melbourne lately I am gobsmacked they do not offer any real solutions.  Our disposal as a team has always been hit and miss.  2018 chaosball when we scored highly, and played an inspiring style of football should have been the new standards.  The messaging must be confused.  We try to play a zone, which all teams must do to a degree, our team is one of the best at keeping a structure in the back half.  As a team trying to play a zone though, what are we actually doing? We run frantically back towards the opposition goal once the opposition have possession, trying not to give up easy goals, and by doing this we actually give up pretty easy goals ironically.   Time, and time and time again. 

Solution??  Pressure the ball carrier. It is basic football, and we are the worst team at it. In 2018 we had waves of players attacking the ball carrier, why have we as a collective stopped doing this? Nowadays we are so busy running backwards to guard grass.  Opposition gets the ball and you are within 5-30m of that ball, get proactive Demons, attack that ball carrier, there are so many positive flow on effects from doing this. Don't turn your back to on player who has ball to run and guard grass. Hands up on mark.   Simon this IS the problem.  We don't attack the ball carrier. We allow other teams to display exquisite skills either by hand or foot, yet ours looks so bad because hey no one is ever pressuring the ball carrier or even has their hands up on the mark. Chinese checkers is an easy game to play for most AFL teams. Geelong played something far worse against us. Chip checkers i'll call it. We got beaten by a garbage tactic which should have been easy to punish but all day we ran to guard grass. Please Simon for the love of God go back to instilling into this team to attack the ball carrier. Your job Is to get the best out of these guys. They, mostly...are fit. We have close to a full list. Picket our newest recruit get it.  He scampers to pressure the ball carrier, Hannan is another who also has laid some crunching tackles, and runs as fast as he can to pressure the ball carrier.  Our whole team needs to start getting inspired by their teammates actions of creating pressure/turnovers. Start pressuring the ball carrier as a collective and we will improve overnight.  Scrap this zone BS.  No one is responsible for anything currently.  Hunt the ball barrier, handball or kick forward a lot more often. Sense your teammate is going to win the ball and you don't need to be that second man in to pressure? RUN. Create an easy option for your teammate who just did a great job. Get involved. There needs to be more shepherds. Now I am confusing the messaging.  Adding layers to this team we seem to have forgotten the basics.  

Kicking and handballing skills are dependent on the pressure being applied. The best teams, the best players all succumb to pressure occasionally.  We need to start applying it as a collective when we don't have the ball. That includes pressuring the ball carrier at all times. If you are not pressuring the ball carrier you should be trying to shut down their next option. Get on a man or close enough to intercept should there be turnover. Help your teammates. Shepherd. Give them that split second more to dispose of the ball better. Create options. Create pressure. Create chaos. Play on when you have options streaming forward, don't be afraid to take the first option, reward your teammate running past if he has momentum and running into space. Don't be afraid to take the game on. So our attack starts from the contest. Attack it, hunt the ball carrier, shepherd your mates, run and create options when we got the ball. Hunt the ball carrier when we don't. The skills will then be able to be seen from our list. Currently this zone thingy is a disgrace and has never quite functioned right, it has flow on effect where nobody is responsible. Scrap it Goody, your back 6 can keep the shape but have to go when required is their turn, that part just requires a tinker. The rest of the team need to be hunting the ball or creating options, the rest really would look after itself.

Sorry for the long winded first post and emphasis on this whole hunt the ball carrier thing we did for parts of 2018.  Our skills and personnel are much better now . It's been driving me madder than isolation that this is not where our game plan starts. Add or take layers but we need to start being uncompromising again. Currently we are the opposite. Pressure!!

PS. Still get a forwards coach next year.  

 

 

Edited July 9, 2020 by NeveroddoreveN

[old dee 22,848]

23 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Long suffering/supporting Demon whose heart beats red and blue. I reckon I been reading this forum pretty avidly for last five to six years, was certainly overdue to subscribe!

I watch every Melbourne match twice.  Somewhat glutton for punishment, but I find I see quite a bit more second time around without the vested emotion of win or a loss on the line.  It actually baffles me as to why our coaching collective can't find a solution to ignite this team.   There is a fairly simple solution that I can see that would change the whole vibe of the way we play.

Our transition since 6-6-6 has been fairly abysmal, our fall since then or maybe that Prelim vs West Coast has been on a downward trajectory.  Short of Petracca there does not seem to be much individual improvement. Our team looks great on paper this year. Our game style, not so much..... Until we fix what we seem to have seemingly forgotten what made us a revelation in 2018. In all the analysis I have seen of Melbourne lately I am gobsmacked they do not offer any real solutions.  Our disposal as a team has always been hit and miss.  2018 chaosball when we scored highly, and played an inspiring style of football should have been the new standards.  The messaging must be confused.  We try to play a zone, which all teams must do to a degree, our team is one of the best at keeping a structure in the back half.  As a team trying to play a zone though, what are we actually doing? We run frantically back towards the opposition goal once the opposition have possession, trying not to give up easy goals, and by doing this we actually give up pretty easy goals ironically.   Time, and time and time again. 

Solution??  Pressure the ball carrier. It is basic football, and we are the worst team at it. In 2018 we had waves of players attacking the ball carrier, why have we as a collective stopped doing this? Nowadays we are so busy running backwards to guard grass.  Opposition gets the ball and you are within 20-30m of that ball, get proactive Demons, attack that ball carrier, there are so many positive flow on effects from doing this.  Simon this IS the problem.  We don't attack the ball carrier. We allow other teams to display exquisite skills either by hand or foot, yet ours looks so bad because hey no one is ever pressuring the ball carrier. Chinese checkers is an easy game to play for most AFL teams. Geelong played something far worse against us. Chip checkers i'll call it. We got beaten by a garbage tactic which should have been easy to punish but all day we ran to guard grass. Please Simon for the love of God go back to instilling into this team to attack the ball carrier. Your job Is to get the best out of these guys. They, mostly...are fit. We have close to a full list. Picket our newest recruit get it.  He scampers to pressure the ball carrier, Hannan is another who also has laid some crunching tackles, and runs as fast as he can to pressure the ball carrier.  Our whole team needs to start getting inspired by their teammates actions of creating pressure/turnovers. Start pressuring the ball carrier as a collective and we will improve overnight.  Scrap this zone BS.  No one is responsible for anything currently.  Hunt the ball barrier, handball or kick forward a lot more often. Sense your teammate is going to win the ball and you don't need to be that second man in to pressure? RUN. Create an easy option for your teammate who just did a great job. Get involved. There needs to be more shepherds. Now I am confusing the messaging.  Adding layers to this team we seem to have forgotten the basics.  

Kicking and handballing skills are dependent on the pressure being applied. The best teams, the best players all succumb to pressure occasionally.  We need to start applying it as a collective when we don't have the ball. That includes pressuring the ball carrier at all times. If you are not pressuring the ball carrier you should be trying to shut down their next option. Get on a man or close enough to intercept should there be turnover. Help your teammates. Shepherd. Give them that split second more to dispose of the ball better. Create options. Create pressure. Create chaos. Play on when you have options streaming forward, don't be afraid to take the first option, reward your teammate running past if he has momentum and running into space. Don't be afraid to take the game on. So our attack starts from the contest. Attack it, hunt the ball carrier, shepherd your mates, run and create options when we got the ball. Hunt the ball carrier when we don't. The skills will then be able to be seen from our list. Currently this zone thingy is a disgrace and has never quite functioned right, it has flow on effect where nobody is responsible. Scrap it Goody, your back 6 can keep the shape but have to go when required is their turn, that part just requires a tinker. The rest of the team need to be hunting the ball or creating options, the rest really would look after itself.

Sorry for the long winded first post and emphasis on this whole hunt the ball carrier thing we did for parts of 2018.  Our skills and personnel are much better now . It's been driving me madder than isolation that this is not where our game plan starts. Add or take layers but we need to start being uncompromising again. Currently we are the opposite. Pressure!!

PS. Still get a forwards coach next year.  

 

 

Nice to see you on here NN don't worry about length. Welcome aboard.

[Dee Dee 1,043]

Hello palindrome ?

Nice effort!

[chook fowler 18,224]

I’m not convinced Goodwin has any idea. We have been hearing since midway through last season that our return to form is just around the corner. Turns out it’s a bloody big corner with no end in sight.

[drysdale demon 4,150]

2 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I’m not convinced Goodwin has any idea. We have been hearing since midway through last season that our return to form is just around the corner. Turns out it’s a bloody big corner with no end in sight.

Could be on a roundabout.

[Nascent 7,242]

Are the players doing what Simon says? Because if not they're out.

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

21 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

I’m not convinced Goodwin has any idea. We have been hearing since midway through last season that our return to form is just around the corner. Turns out it’s a bloody big corner with no end in sight.

Haha yeah it would be easy enough to question whether he does when he talks constantly of this thing called connection.  He knows what the problem is though rest assured. He just chose not to tell any of us in case he was in fact wrong. Hunt the ball carrier is the start of it for us I can almost guarantee it. Shuffling deck chairs so to speak is going to make zero difference until we start pressuring....all across the field. Would be lot more fun for players, we'd kick goals and the players would start playing for each other/their coach/us. Footy can be fun if you get the basics right. We just went away from the basics running back to some zone so we don't occasionally get scored easy goals out the back.  The players clearly hate it, the supporters hate it. Be attacking  when you don't have the ball and watch the chaos rewards that come. Shackles need to be released! The pressure builds because we see the same game plan, the tweaks revolve around our dysfunctional zone currently. Let them attack the ball with no fear for stuff ups because they will get plenty of chances to make up for it if they keep bashing and crashing in to support their team to create the next contest. We are fit, You'd think we'd be hungry. I just don't think we are all that smart currently. We look reactive, it just makes us look bad. Must stop guarding grass. It is so bad

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

22 minutes ago, Nascent said:

Are the players doing what Simon says? Because if not they're out.

I reckon they are doing what they are told. His messaging must be very inconsistent or we have the dumbest players ever to play AFL.. I know it is highly unlikely to be the latter, we got some fairly smart players on our list!  Do this, but don't do this, but if this happens do this! The messaging of a coach can be insightful or debilitating. When it al goes pear shaped, strip it back and simplify it. Currently we are devoid of plan and I am not sure our coaching department have really gotten close to the issue in the last 18 months or so. Around the same time we stopped attacking the contest and manically hunting the ball carrier. Sure we needed more balance with not everyone jumping in but that was just a part of OUR style that needed to be tinkered with. After that West Coast match we been trying to play zone the whole time. Enough time has been wasted on something that has made us easy to play against whatever style you choose. The zone needs to die to fairly large degree and players start becoming accountable.

Edited July 9, 2020 by NeveroddoreveN
typos

[Earl Hood 5,789]

Unfortunately I think Goody is the problem. The potential fix is not difficult but I don’t think it is going to happen. The predictable attack at all costs game plan is killing us but Goody is committed to it. If we don’t change our play on at all costs, kick down the line strategy ASAP say in the next 2 or 3 games and we end up 1 and 6, I reckon it’s time to go. We can’t financially do it of course but we could override him. Force an attitude change. I don’t like sacking coaches but if we go 1 and 6 I think we need to act. 

[Demon Dynasty 15,404]

3 hours ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

Long suffering/supporting Demon whose heart beats red and blue. I reckon I been reading this forum pretty avidly for last five to six years, was certainly overdue to subscribe!

Welcome aboard the self flagellation train NN

Edited July 9, 2020 by Rusty Nails

[daisycutter 28,494]

i don't think simon is introspective enough to know where he went wrong....just like chairman dan

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

35 minutes ago, Earl Hood said:

Unfortunately I think Goody is the problem. The potential fix is not difficult but I don’t think it is going to happen. The predictable attack at all costs game plan is killing us but Goody is committed to it. If we don’t change our play on at all costs, kick down the line strategy ASAP say in the next 2 or 3 games and we end up 1 and 6, I reckon it’s time to go. We can’t financially do it of course but we could override him. Force an attitude change. I don’t like sacking coaches but if we go 1 and 6 I think we need to act. 

If I was Goodie I would start by being honest to his players and say something like "I am so sorry guys, I have actually hampered a lot of your development as players by sticking to a game plan that simply does not work, or is not working currently. We have been trying so hard to implement this zone that we have actually gone away from something that was "starting" to make us look a good team. Remember when we used to all frenetically chase and tackle? We are going back to that, I demand that we at least have players in the vicinity impacting contests. And if a tackle is missed, there should be a 2nd wave coming in to help their mate, and a 3rd or a 4th. You get the picture. We need to have purpose in what we do, hunting the ball when you don't have it. when we win the ball spread and run forward, create options. Shepherds, smothers, tackles, tap-ons. Oh and put your hands up on the mark too guys! We all do these things unconditionally and when it's our turn to go, we go ok??! Talk! Impact contests! Run, create and overlap, tackle like you mean it! Help your mates always, lets light a fire team. We have been to Hell and Back. And i'll admit I could not quite put my finger on why, I had so much information but basically I got overloaded with information and forgot some of the simple things that good teams do.  We are the fittest we have ever been, this is a crazy season, I am sorry have been a crazy coach. From today we change the way we play. We will be far less predictable. Let's give it a real crack team, this season is far from over with this new gameplan the competition may not even know what hit em!" 

He definitely needs to work it out soon, I am not sure why so reluctant to change things up, different personnel but same game plan has stalled us badly.  I like the 4 changes this week but honestly until the gameplan is adjusted, we will still play ugly, uninspiring football. Become the hunters again and we could be anything. It really is not that complicated, things need to be simplified where everyone knows their role, currently we have guys busting a gut for not much result. Our team would have much better skills with new, simplified, attack ball, game plan. Watching them at training most of their skills are up to scratch, the ball barely hits the ground. It falls apart on weekends because our gameplan is way out of whack. They train hard, they are perhaps fitter than they have ever been, there may be inequalities with selection and paychecks, all sorts of reasons to underperform as a team/individual. As a club we really could be so much better if we did the simple things half well. If you are fit, you can pressure.  Have 20 blokes pressuring and all of a sudden we look like a completely different team. We caught Carlton napping in  the 1st quarter but our pressure on the ball carrier and pressure in general was off the charts. We stopped pressuring and the game rapidly changed. This should have been worked out like round 4 last season, not to sound too condescending. I would actually like to see Goody and Melbourne have success though, it is really up to him and the coaching staff/players to do something daring and a bit different.  Recognising where it went wrong is where to start. Show the player 2018 and what they were doing right....encourage to do that again, the balance at the contest we can work out later. Let the back 6 worry about keeping some sort of shape to our back half, the rest need to start hunting again. 

[jnrmac 18,953]

17 hours ago, Dee Dee said:

Hello palindrome ?

Nice effort!

For lovers of palindromes. Genius

[3183 Dee 2,602]

9 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

For lovers of palindromes. Genius

Absolute gold! Never seen that before - superb!

[DEE fence 4,449]

I strongly agree about how effective our 2018 hunting the ball carriers was. Apart from I appreciated the effort and consideration given to the subject well done.

I do have a comment though (not a but), Watching 2018, I thought they played their hearts out, hunting and hurting the opposition AND themselves. I never thought it would be sustainable. We were so banged up at the end of the season amd this is the reason I thought the game plan changed to guarding grass as you call it.

We need to change the game plan without doubt, but I couldn't see our list surviving long with that style played all game every week. Would be much better as a shock and awe, switched up with something (I don't know what) other than this play on garbage that is killing us.

[Dame Gaga 2,453]

I read an interview with Jeff Kennett where he was speaking about Clarkson's first year. He got the job with a convincing game plan which sounded so good! Then so many games into the year Clarkson realised his game plan didn't suit the players he had in the team, so he changed it, to utilize the talents and abilities of the players. Sometimes you need to be flexible, and work with what you've got, and stop trying to get a square peg into a round hole. 

[NeveroddoreveN 1,034]

12 hours ago, DaisyDeeciple said:

I strongly agree about how effective our 2018 hunting the ball carriers was. Apart from I appreciated the effort and consideration given to the subject well done.

I do have a comment though (not a but), Watching 2018, I thought they played their hearts out, hunting and hurting the opposition AND themselves. I never thought it would be sustainable. We were so banged up at the end of the season amd this is the reason I thought the game plan changed to guarding grass as you call it.

We need to change the game plan without doubt, but I couldn't see our list surviving long with that style played all game every week. Would be much better as a shock and awe, switched up with something (I don't know what) other than this play on garbage that is killing us.

I am not sure it was sustainable either tbh!  Now we have a fit team and 16 minute quarters I really think it could be.  The main issue was always the balance of guys in at the contest, it felt like an under 12's approach where we all hunted the ball, once teams started letting us have +1 or +2 at the stoppages we simply just coughed it up time and time again. It really needed tinkering, keep hunting the ball carrier just don't overcommit to every contest! With adding players like Langdon who runs all day looking for easy outlet passes I really believe we'd have much better balance to actually do it for longer periods. It is not the players, our current gameplan is the easiest to coach against for a heap of reasons currently.  Lack of pressure all over the ground really just allows opposition to display sublime skills, yet we look scared to make mistakes or take the game on. I am not sure we even have a gameplan!! We just want to play our way with no respect for opposition tactics. I bet today Goodwin backs us to beat Gold Coast with no noticeable changes to style.  Seeing SImon say with a cheeky little grin we are ignoring the "noise" and working on it fills me with no confidence whatsoever. I don't even think he realises how in jeopardy his career currently is. We lose today and how long can he continue to ignore that "noise"!?

 

10 hours ago, Dame Gaga said:

I read an interview with Jeff Kennett where he was speaking about Clarkson's first year. He got the job with a convincing game plan which sounded so good! Then so many games into the year Clarkson realised his game plan didn't suit the players he had in the team, so he changed it, to utilize the talents and abilities of the players. Sometimes you need to be flexible, and work with what you've got, and stop trying to get a square peg into a round hole. 

You would think to be flexible, would be a given to be an AFL coach....Managing 40+men with different personalities and motivations....Is our coach flexible?  I have seen so few moves on gameday or between games I am not sure he has it in him.  I can only imagine there are lots of ideas getting thrown at Goodie from our coaching department. Not much is being implemented though is it?  He wants to do things his way to get all the acclaim? Stubborn? I don't get why we are not changing things up!!!

[58er 5,607]

55 minutes ago, NeveroddoreveN said:

I am not sure it was sustainable either tbh!  Now we have a fit team and 16 minute quarters I really think it could be.  The main issue was always the balance of guys in at the contest, it felt like an under 12's approach where we all hunted the ball, once teams started letting us have +1 or +2 at the stoppages we simply just coughed it up time and time again. It really needed tinkering, keep hunting the ball carrier just don't overcommit to every contest! With adding players like Langdon who runs all day looking for easy outlet passes I really believe we'd have much better balance to actually do it for longer periods. It is not the players, our current gameplan is the easiest to coach against for a heap of reasons currently.  Lack of pressure all over the ground really just allows opposition to display sublime skills, yet we look scared to make mistakes or take the game on. I am not sure we even have a gameplan!! We just want to play our way with no respect for opposition tactics. I bet today Goodwin backs us to beat Gold Coast with no noticeable changes to style.  Seeing SImon say with a cheeky little grin we are ignoring the "noise" and working on it fills me with no confidence whatsoever. I don't even think he realises how in jeopardy his career currently is. We lose today and how long can he continue to ignore that "noise"!?

 

You would think to be flexible, would be a given to be an AFL coach....Managing 40+men with different personalities and motivations....Is our coach flexible?  I have seen so few moves on gameday or between games I am not sure he has it in him.  I can only imagine there are lots of ideas getting thrown at Goodie from our coaching department. Not much is being implemented though is it?  He wants to do things his way to get all the acclaim? Stubborn? I don't get why we are not changing things up!!!

Totally agree NNN !