While I see the pros and cons of Jack leaving/staying this has a James McDonald feel to it all over again. 

I honestly don’t believe a club like us can afford to lose a heart and soul player like Jack,  regardless of his on field limitations.

I’d hate to have to play against him. I think we would regret the decision badly, if that is, we have the opportunity to keep him.

Hoping he stays.

3 hours ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

What you say definitely has merit but I think there's also plenty to be said for the intangible "culture" as well. My concern is we've spent the better part of 7 years trying to rebuild that and it takes a massive hit if Viney walks.

Thanks for the chat DG. For mine culture (good or bad) is built by the people currently at the club/work environment... it might be built by others but the ones still in it are charged with delivering on it.

I work at a place that was built ad a real change maker in this industry, they actively sort people of a “culture fit”. Early doors it was incredible... it’s been 5 years, 3 CEOs later and it’s a vastly different place (for better or worse) but people still bang on about the culture of the place like it was day 1. It’s not but it’s about the evolution to keep striving for success, some people, no matter how good do fall by the wayside. 

16 minutes ago, Beetle said:

While I see the pros and cons of Jack leaving/staying this has a James McDonald feel to it all over again. 

I honestly don’t believe a club like us can afford to lose a heart and soul player like Jack,  regardless of his on field limitations.

I’d hate to have to play against him. I think we would regret the decision badly, if that is, we have the opportunity to keep him.

Hoping he stays.

Surely we’re stronger than that now.

Max, May, Melk, Hibbs, VdB are all leaders that should be able to get this talent to finals. 

For those on here who have met Jack, this seems like a ridiculous thing to say, because he's a great and selfless person. but he's not a selfless player, he tries to be but the way he impacts the midfield takes away from everyone else in there. 

it's no conincidence the best our midfield has looked in a long time was our 2018 finals run with Oliver, Harmes and Brayshaw as the 3 main mids. Pace, Spread, inside/outside, system, defense and attack. IMO that's our starting 3 mids with Petracca rotating through 

30 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Surely we’re stronger than that now.

Max, May, Melk, Hibbs, VdB are all leaders that should be able to get this talent to finals. 

Melksham was pathetic this season, Vandenberg was in and out of the team, and the jury is still out on Gawn as captain in my opinion. We're pretty thin in the leadership department if you ask me, Viney has it in spades... agree with the OP

32 minutes ago, Cards13 said:

Surely we’re stronger than that now.

Max, May, Melk, Hibbs, VdB are all leaders that should be able to get this talent to finals. 

Perhaps...

The fact you’ve mentioned Melk, Hibbs and AVB rings alarm bells though.

Melk had a schockinh season by his standards, AVB is injury prone and just doesn’t get enough of the ball, despite his physical presence and Hibberd I reckon has one year to go (maybe two) at best.

leadership runs thin...

54 minutes ago, Patches O’houlihan said:

For those on here who have met Jack, this seems like a ridiculous thing to say, because he's a great and selfless person. but he's not a selfless player, he tries to be but the way he impacts the midfield takes away from everyone else in there. 

it's no conincidence the best our midfield has looked in a long time was our 2018 finals run with Oliver, Harmes and Brayshaw as the 3 main mids. Pace, Spread, inside/outside, system, defense and attack. IMO that's our starting 3 mids with Petracca rotating through 

Yet Viney was probably our best midfielder over the first 2 finals and set the tone with incredible tackling and defensive pressure especially against the Cats. Then won a heap of the footy against the Hawks.

If all our mids bought the pressure and intensity of Viney we'd almost have no choice but to find a way to move the ball because we'd be creating so many turnovers and loose ball gets the rest would work itself out. That's pretty much the Richmond model, the biggest difference is they surround their traditional mids with skilled flanker types who pressure.

6 hours ago, Beetle said:

Perhaps...

The fact you’ve mentioned Melk, Hibbs and AVB rings alarm bells though.

Melk had a schockinh season by his standards, AVB is injury prone and just doesn’t get enough of the ball, despite his physical presence and Hibberd I reckon has one year to go (maybe two) at best.

leadership runs thin...

 

6 hours ago, RedFox said:

Melksham was pathetic this season, Vandenberg was in and out of the team, and the jury is still out on Gawn as captain in my opinion. We're pretty thin in the leadership department if you ask me, Viney has it in spades... agree with the OP

 

6 hours ago, Beetle said:

Perhaps...

The fact you’ve mentioned Melk, Hibbs and AVB rings alarm bells though.

Melk had a schockinh season by his standards, AVB is injury prone and just doesn’t get enough of the ball, despite his physical presence and Hibberd I reckon has one year to go (maybe two) at best.

leadership runs thin...

True gents too true, when I read those back it does raise concerns but I don’t think Jack is the answer to that, he was captain and demoted. 
As I said earlier in the thread it’s an interesting debate.

14 hours ago, deebug said:

True, i know a lot of people want Jack gone, but I'm not one of them.

He chose us, when he was a 16 year old boy; as we all know we were in the abyss of mess back then.

Jack has stuck with us, and i know it's stupid i still hope that we can maybe win a flag soon and i would love him to be part of that?

i don't want Jack Gone but if Goodwin is clearing an inside mid I would rather Keep Brayshaw and not Jack

Keep Jack by all means but dont play him in the middle

Edited September 28, 20204 yr by Kent

Just had a look through your post @Axis of Bob, terrific analysis and it’s hard to argue with such thorough research.

I am sure it’s been mentioned by others, but do we value his body work around stoppages so highly that you’d pay him upwards of $600k a year to do it?

Of all the things that can be easily taught, getting body position at a stoppage has to be the most simple. For all of Jack’s great blocks you point out, we were still absolutely smashed around the contest when it mattered. 

I’m of the belief we could find a better balance with a combination of players other than Trac, Viney and Clarry. 

If Viney was to walk to Geelong, we’d have a good stash of cash to target a mid who’s a little more rounded in general play but could still start with the body at stoppages. Unless your skills are really elite, it’s a liability being so one sided in today’s game.

His game is also very kamikaze and it would be hard to ignore a longer contract with the potential of his body failing

 

 

 

Just a few things.

Would you prefer to have Viney playing for you or against you, against say Brayshaw? I’ll be happy to take Jack.

 

Onfield leadership is a number of things including being a General and when the game has to be won, standing up and making an impact. l reckon we have the right people in Max and Jack in leadership roles at the moment.

On the basis of this year, other players who display these  characteristics are May, Clarry and Trac. There are also others in Lever and Langdon maybe.

 

 

 

2 hours ago, Cards13 said:

 

 

True gents too true, when I read those back it does raise concerns but I don’t think Jack is the answer to that, he was captain and demoted. 
As I said earlier in the thread it’s an interesting debate.

JV alone is not the answer but if you let him go there is a huge void to fill. The way he attacks opposition can really motor our pressure, often you'll see if he's up and about tackling and harassing like a mad man the whole team follows suit. I didn't see that once from Melksham this season, it's an indictment that he never got dropped. 

I've seen Petracca steadily increase his instruction giving and overall leadership in the last 12 months. Here's hoping he continues on this trajectory because he's a player that would inspire through on field actions, which Max lacks in my opinion. 

Edited September 28, 20204 yr by RedFox

1 hour ago, Dockett 32 said:

Just a few things.

Would you prefer to have Viney playing for you or against you, against say Brayshaw? I’ll be happy to take Jack.

 

Onfield leadership is a number of things including being a General and when the game has to be won, standing up and making an impact. l reckon we have the right people in Max and Jack in leadership roles at the moment.

On the basis of this year, other players who display these  characteristics are May, Clarry and Trac. There are also others in Lever and Langdon maybe.

 

 

 

I totally agree. Viney looks like a player willing to fight hard for the club and plays desperate, tough footy. Can't say the same for Brayshaw. He looks like too much of a joker that's happy cruising along.

39 minutes ago, Mike said:

I totally agree. Viney looks like a player willing to fight hard for the club and plays desperate, tough footy. Can't say the same for Brayshaw. He looks like too much of a joker that's happy cruising along.

They both have their strong points. Viney is heart and soul. Sometimes takes on too much and gets caught. I can live with this at least he is trying to drag his team over the line. Gus has a touch of finishing class, can look half committed at times.

Put them together over the summer. Viney to push for Gus's skills, Gus to push for Viney's second third efforts 

I don't think its a case of either Viney or Gus. I think it comes down to coaching and structures. Maybe they can't be in the same rotation all the time but could trial Clarry, Tracs, Gus, Viney, Harmes, Sparrow,  rotating through 

Would be happy to never see melk line up at a center stoppage ever again

Gus's 2020 highlights, looks good when he's on !

 

Edited September 28, 20204 yr by Dee-lusional

Can someone please bump up the ‘Jack Viney made me cry’ topic please?

How the worm has turned

Please sign, JV

9 hours ago, jumbo returns said:

Can someone please bump up the ‘Jack Viney made me cry’ topic please?

How the worm has turned

Please sign, JV

I really hope we’re not going to be adding Demonland to his list. 

I’d be interested to know what’s holding things up. Is it money? Is it that his suitors are playing finals footy so things are still hush hush? Is it length of deal?

20 minutes ago, Pates said:

I really hope we’re not going to be adding Demonland to his list. 

I’d be interested to know what’s holding things up. Is it money? Is it that his suitors are playing finals footy so things are still hush hush? Is it length of deal?

Five year deal is locked in apparently...... I just want to know why they’re holding off on announcing it. Perhaps one of the posters who stated Viney was ‘locked in’ can shed some on the matter for us? 

Edited September 30, 20204 yr by Ethan Tremblay

I’ve changed my mind, keep them all, get in some outside talent with experience and get TMac fit and firing

1 hour ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Perhaps one of the posters who stated Viney was ‘locked in’ can shed some on the matter for us? 

Pretty hard for them to shed light on the matter when the so called info is fake news, {as the trump would say}

1 hour ago, Pates said:

I really hope we’re not going to be adding Demonland to his list. 

I’d be interested to know what’s holding things up. Is it money? Is it that his suitors are playing finals footy so things are still hush hush? Is it length of deal?

The second one

5 minutes ago, drysdale demon said:

Pretty hard for them to shed light on the matter when the so called info is fake news, {as the trump would say}

Agree. Maybe Demonland should introduce suspensions when people add posts that are baseless in fact, when they claim otherwise

54 minutes ago, bobby1554 said:

Agree. Maybe Demonland should introduce suspensions when people add posts that are baseless in fact, when they claim otherwise

Certainly sounds like Trump.

1 hour ago, Roost it far said:

I’ve changed my mind, keep them all, get in some outside talent with experience and get TMac fit and firing

How would one “keep them all” but some outside talent with very little money in the salary cap and no first round pick this year?

2 hours ago, Ethan Tremblay said:

Five year deal is locked in apparently...... I just want to know why they’re holding off on announcing it. Perhaps one of the posters who stated Viney was ‘locked in’ can shed some on the matter for us? 

 

 

Are we there yet?

Asking for a friend