POSTGAME: Rd 04 vs Geelong

[goodwindees 2,503]

3 hours ago, nosoupforme said:

Are you still sooking it  ?  stop making up stuff show me where i quoted it.

REALLY ! GET A LIFE DH. 

Why would I sooking  it when you’ve been clearly exposed as a fool.  Can’t believe all the fools who bagged Smith against Carlton. You’re just unlucky I chose to name you but there were plenty of others. 

[YesitwasaWin4theAges 6,704]

If we can't keep the ball locked in for long periods and are being cut open with slow ball movement in this current forward setup, what's the point in a mobile forward setup? the time has come to bring in Weed.

If we are only playing with 1 key tall (Tmac) 2 small forwards (Pickett and Hunt) 3 hybrid forwards (Vanders/Trac, Hannan and Melk) we need to start clunking marks up top.

We are not providing much in the air at all and its getting mopped up to easily. So sacrificing 1 hybrid forward for a tall makes for a better presents in the Forward line.

Example of today Tmac had to compete with a double team on the wing a few times brought the ball to ground we pounced on it and bombed it into Fritta, Hunt and Kosi easily mopped up. No big body presents after Tmac has been pushed up the ground we are too lightweight atm.

Tmac battled hard today improved performance, but he needs help.

[nosoupforme 3,085]

32 minutes ago, dee-eee said:

No argument the game was a poor standard but i'm amazed nobody has commented on Tomlinson's hurried set shot at the death .   A senior player should have attempted to settle him down . The game WAS there to win .

Yes and we are all bleeding.  He is not a noted goal kicker yet he didn't miss by much. However we missed 2 earlier with Melksham  and had chances during the match in play but made poor decisions. 

 

[layzie 33,862]

42 minutes ago, Scoop Junior said:

The second aspect is our footy IQ. I've banged on about this for a while but we are a low footy IQ team. The dumb decisions and the mistakes individual players make game after game are just infuriating. Geelong were extremely ordinary today and were asking to be put away but they were able to just sneak through on their smarter play. Langdon not walking over the boundary line deep in defence cost us a goal. Not being able to touch the ball on the goal line cost us another. There were countless more mistakes. And we've seen it time and time again in recent matches. In a tight game some smarter and more composed footy gets you over the line.

I think what sums it up perfectly is that Salem play at the end. A team that is regularly guilty of bombing it in actually needed to do precisely that given we had two players out the back in the goal square. What do we do? No, let's not bomb it long the one time we need to, let's wait and try and spot up an impossible pass to a player who is 4 on 1 by the time the ball gets there. And this was from one of our most composed players and better decision makers.

That's three times in the last five matches against Geelong there has been a shot for goal within the last minute to win the game. We've lost all three.

I think this is spot on, we can bang on about coaching all we want and a lot of that is valid but I saw a lot of stupid stupid nonsensical decision making today. The Salem example is perfect and takes the words right out of my mouth seriously the one time we try to precision pass? Ergh.

It's pure football sense and a lot of our players are showing they just don't have it right now.  

[rolling fog 1,207]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Have we underestimated the loss of Hogan??

I think we've underestimated our ability to develop a player capable of filling the void

[Beetle 4,660]

58 minutes ago, dee-eee said:

No argument the game was a poor standard but i'm amazed nobody has commented on Tomlinson's hurried set shot at the death .   A senior player should have attempted to settle him down . The game WAS there to win .

I mentioned it at the time on the game day thread.

he had the distance and should have been advised to take his time and go back and thread it.

[Mazer Rackham 14,971]

 

 

54 minutes ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I am starting to question whether the Watts decision was the right choice also. He has exactly everything we are crying out for and right now he'd be handy as that floating tall forward. Go back to some of his clutch moments where he won games off being calm under the immense pressure.

Struggling to think of these clutch moments. QB, yes ... any others? I can think of several where his limp efforts did us no good at all, in clutch games.

He's skilled and talented, and would have helped us today, maybe made the difference, in a low-skill mess of a game against a side well off the boil. But we should be winning such games comfortably, with no need for Watts, if we are to be a finals threat, and Watts was let go because the coaches believed he couldn't stand the heat in the kitchen ... ie, finals.

 

52 minutes ago, dee-eee said:

No argument the game was a poor standard but i'm amazed nobody has commented on Tomlinson's hurried set shot at the death .   A senior player should have attempted to settle him down . The game WAS there to win .

It's easy to overthink the situation and his percentage shot is probably the instinctive one, that he took without hesitation, rather than try to be perfect and then seize up in execution. Fritsch or Hannan probably a better bet, but, they didn't have the pill.

[rolling fog 1,207]

58 minutes ago, dee-eee said:

No argument the game was a poor standard but i'm amazed nobody has commented on Tomlinson's hurried set shot at the death .   A senior player should have attempted to settle him down . The game WAS there to win .

Salem dithering for what seemed like an eternity, to then opt for an insipid kick to an outnumbered contest was equally ridiculous. 

He's proven himself as one of the best kicks in the team, perhaps he was a little out of range, but I saw no urgency or confidence in that moment.

 

[Stein9193 129]

Can we stop with the crap about how it was only 3 points and we did really well? You're sounding like the grandma who knows nothing about football but sees the score and says "That was pretty close! that's good isn't it?".

For those of us who watched it we were terrible and if there's going to be more performances like that Goodwin can expect the sack sooner rather than later.

[Stein9193 129]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Have we underestimated the loss of Hogan??

Have you just figured this out?

[dazzledavey36 55,000]

21 minutes ago, Stein9193 said:

Have you just figured this out?

I was asking someone a question thanks.

I have my own opinion on this.

[rolling fog 1,207]

35 minutes ago, Stein9193 said:

Can we stop with the crap about how it was only 3 points and we did really well? You're sounding like the grandma who knows nothing about football but sees the score and says "That was pretty close! that's good isn't it?".

For those of us who watched it we were terrible and if there's going to be more performances like that Goodwin can expect the sack sooner rather than later.

I haven't seen a single post tonight saying anything remotely close to 'it was only 3 points and we did really well' 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

41 minutes ago, rolling fog said:

Salem dithering for what seemed like an eternity, to then opt for an insipid kick to an outnumbered contest was equally ridiculous. 

He's proven himself as one of the best kicks in the team, perhaps he was a little out of range, but I saw no urgency or confidence in that moment.

 

Salem appears to have taken a few backward steps since the back end of 2019 imv.  No spark, flat footed far too often and kicking lacks penetration.

Off the mark he's turned into a tortoise.  Was never a big burst player but gee he just looks to have lost half a yard on top if that's possible.

He might come out and put in a blinder next week and i'll look like a goose but his recent form isn't great.

[Go the Biff 3,435]

1 hour ago, dazzledavey36 said:

I am starting to question whether the Watts decision was the right choice also. He has exactly everything we are crying out for and right now he'd be handy as that floating tall forward. Go back to some of his clutch moments where he won games off being calm under the immense pressure.

We got Bayley Frietsch with the Watts pick who for some reason Goody has this fascination of playing as a deep forward. Has averaged around the 6.5 disposal per game this year for 2 goals.....

The Kent trade i could understand to a degree, but he was just quite injury riddled where as Vanders looked like he was finally over his injuries issue and set to restart his career.

Kent was bloody good yesterday against the tiges.

I believe Fritsch could - and should be - a one for one replacement for Watts. His foot skills are comparable to Watts. He is clearly superior in the air to Watts. Neither of them are a key forward though and Fritsch is already developing bad habits (playing from behind) from being outsized. His two set shots today came from his opponent over committing which is not a great basis for creating scoring chances. We are gonna ruin the kid if we persist with him as a KPF.

Kent & Hannan to me are much the same player. Both have good highlight reels but go missing for huge chunks in games. Kent wanted his three year deal & St Kilda gave it to him. Good on him but I think he'll finish his career having played many more games for us than them. Anyway, I doubt you'd want both of them in the same side so Kent going doesn't hurt us.

I wonder how many games Weid & TMac have played together both as forwards. Don't think it's many so it's suprrising that the post-Hogan model hasn't been given a chance with any real continuity. Yeah we do miss Hoges.

The one key forward is not gonna work. Soooo 2017. Even Richmond after winning a flag with it, realised it's not sustainable. Mind you, the way we set up, Lockett, Carey & Dunstall would struggle to get the pill. That's a rant for another day.

[binman 43,135]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Risking my head a bit here, but we lost Hogan, Kent and Watts from a forward half that was already on thin ice skill-wise.

 

I wasn't too worried about losing Kent, though i liked him as a player and would have liked him to stay at the club. But he struggled a bit with injury and we had other similar players. 

Hogan and Watts are a different kettle of fish. I was dead against trading both.

This was a quote in an article in news.com (largely about how god awful today's game was):

'The Demons enjoyed a 32-23 clearance advantage and had eight more inside-50s but were undone by their inefficiency' 

That could be cut and paste from 95% of write ups of games from last year, and even 2018. And certainly this year to. 

I understand that there's stuff i don't know about off field with both players and Jessie wanted to go home (but we could have simply kept him) but our foot skills are so, so poor. And our decision making almost as bad. Both players would help mitigate both of these weakness, in particular Watts.

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by binman

[WERRIDEE 5,479]

1 hour ago, Rusty Nails said:

Salem appears to have taken a few backward steps since the back end of 2019 imv.  No spark, flat footed far too often and kicking lacks penetration.

Off the mark he's turned into a tortoise.  Was never a big burst player but gee he just looks to have lost half a yard on top if that's possible.

He might come out and put in a blinder next week and i'll look like a goose but his recent form isn't great.

He played well against Carlton. 1 bad game so what?

[bing181 9,246]

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

We've spent all summer to get this right and yet our inside 50 entrie is no different to last year

What does that tell you?

[bing181 9,246]

39 minutes ago, binman said:

'The Demons enjoyed a 32-23 clearance advantage and had eight more inside-50s but were undone by their inefficiency' 

Agree re foot skills and decision-making. But where we need those most are with the mids and on-ballers. You look at that key group, Brayshaw, Viney, Petracca, Clarrie, or the wings with Langdon and Tomlinson, or even the forwards themselves when they get up the ground ... Hannan, VDB, Hunt, Melksham, McDonald. Not one of them are players you could count on to hit a target under a pressure in general play.

With predictable results. It's not so much a Watts we need, it's a Bernie Vince or Jordan Lewis. Fingers crossed for Bennell, though perhaps we should rob Peter to pay Paul and move Fritsch further up the ground, he's the one shining light in this regard (as Tom McDonald mentioned in an interview earlier in the year.)

Though for mine, what's exacerbating this is the chronic lack of games. Even though it's July, this is a team that hasn't played 2 games in a row since last season, yet alone 2 games in a row together. There's only so much you can do in training. No accident perhaps that both Melbourne and Essendon lost this weekend.

 

[Half forward flank 1,022]

5 hours ago, Farmer said:

At the time we were playing well in Q2 TMAC was battling like hell, creating contests, nearly clunking a couple. Then he nearly gets broken ribs in Q3 but still takes a great grab and kicks a goal in the last.Get off his back! The problem is the gameplan  when we beat the Cats easily in the finals in 2018 Weideman took a few marks.Even if he only creates a contest he must be played

Tmac marked once. 

[bing181 9,246]

4 hours ago, dazzledavey36 said:

Yet his stubbornness has got the better of him again...

Ah, another Demonland myth.

[John Demonic 5,816]

I dislike the notion that teams can lose by a few errors, robbing the opposition a right of reply on field if we didn't make them. eg If we'd touched it on the goal line, then Geelong would've just upped the ante on building a lead sooner instead.

1 mistake wasn't the difference at all. The whole match was littered with poor micro-decisions like taking on a tackle when you should give it off. I question whether some of these players are playing the wrong code.

Anyway, These errors all just accumulate over time and amount to gifting the opposition goals against the play that just bury you. It takes a lot more effort off field to coach those out of the game. To just summarize 100 mins of footy to "we lost because of a few defensive errors that cost goals" is just an absolute understatement.

Edited June 28, 2020 by John Demonic

[chook fowler 19,459]

From what I can see - Fritsch is not a full forward, Harmes is not a backman, Vanders is finished and Brayshaw is purely an inside mid and spends too much time on the bench. It all gets down to poor selection and player management.

[John Demonic 5,816]

4 hours ago, Half forward flank said:

Tmac marked once. 

How good was it though? Coupled with the perfect set shot, I think it was worth an entire year of waiting. /s

[dazzledavey36 55,000]

13 minutes ago, chook fowler said:

From what I can see - Fritsch is not a full forward, Harmes is not a backman, Vanders is finished and Brayshaw is purely an inside mid and spends too much time on the bench. It all gets down to poor selection and player management.

Harmes played mid yesterday. 

[Demons11 7,032]

13 hours ago, olisik said:

All our players have gone backwards under Goodwin. It’s a coaching disgrace

Oliver - Backwards

Tmac - Backwards

Lever - Backwards

Fritsch - Backwards

Jetta - Backwards

Would struggle to find the name of a player who is improving under this regime. 

???‍♂️

Oliver - backwards? Are you kidding me 

Lever - has played 6 games in 2 years

Fritsch - When exactly had he gone forwards

Jetta is getting older and was bound to slow down. 

T Mac had his best year under Goodwin

 

Edited June 28, 2020 by Demons11