Jack Viney a Liability?

[Hogans Demons 41]

On 3/2/2020 at 11:18 PM, Simon Port said:

The Roar posted a recent article about the Predictions for Melbourne for 2020. It went on to say that we have a surplus of inside mids and too many of the same type of player, specifically targeting Jack. "Jack Viney must have a question mark on his future in the modern game. He's as one-dimensional a player as there is in the AFL, and there are others on the list that perform his main skill of extraction better. He's been demoted from he captaincy. He's also treacle-slow and can't kick. Concerns." Do you think Viney's lack of break away speed since his foot injuries and poor disposal efficiency are major concerns? He is only suited to an inside midfield role and hasn't performed at a high level for a number of years now (I do understand he's had injuries). Thoughts?

 

I wouldnt take anything written by "The Roar" to heart.

Viney battled through the year with no per season. I'm sure they were the first one;s praising him after week 2 of the 2018 finals series.

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

I actually like this as a topic. The idea that we have too many similar type players is true... That's what happens when you can't spend the big bucks on rangey superstars like other clubs do.

The idea that Viney gets squeezed out is nonsense though. Oliver is a similar type (slow, in and under) but he'd start in the middle of any club in the land. Viney's not at that level of course, but when he's not hurt (which hasn't happened in a couple of seasons) he's great at what he does. Yes it's true we need more run, better handball receive types... but that doesn't mean the extractors don't have a place, and Jack's one of our best.

[TGR 1,367]

4 hours ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Jesus some on here have short memories. Viney brings the type of hardness that we were begging for during our decade in the wilderness. 

Is he a complete midfielder? Of course not, but very, very few players are. Is a fit Jack Viney a key member of our best 22? Absolutely, and to suggest that he won't be in the near future is utter crazy talk. He's not a great kick, but neither is Dangerfield and he goes alright. 

Viney's lateral movement is actually pretty good IMO. Check out the second passage of play from the 2018 semi. Also note who made the desperate futile chase to pressure Gunston's kick in the next passage. Successful finals teams are built around players like Viney. 

 

If you are right.,.he does not trust his lateral movement then.  Too much heading and trying to take on tackler...while having some upside for teammates, does get a tad predictable.

 

Lateral movement dancing maestros like Sam Mitchell and Daniel Kerr and Robert A   Flower and the like would get away with taking on the tackler

[TGR 1,367]

20 hours ago, Sargent Shultz said:

i think Stack's day of reckoning is coming, its easy to line up a player on his blind side, who only has eyes for the ball, and deliver a bump that was bordering on reportable. Viney will back into a pack everday of the year- look me up when Stack does the same

Stack’s bump was absolutely brilliant, textbook, fair...
 

Stack will be the pick of the bunch.  Marlion Pickett will exist in his shadow.

 

Stack is a combo of Cyril and Byron.  He is Viney’s kryptonite.  Big wrap.

 

An MFC supporter who can’t genuinely praise the technique and effect of that bump is a one eyed subjective simpleton.

 

 

 

TiGeR 

[demon3165 2,347]

I agree that Viney is one dimensional lacks depth in his kicking not a big mark and for a so called top midfielder does not kick hit the scoreboard enough the thing is if the opposition plays a similar game (contested) he is all right, when they play a outside game style that is where he fails badly so lets see how he goes.

[old55 21,924]

1 hour ago, Dappa Dan said:

I actually like this as a topic. The idea that we have too many similar type players is true... That's what happens when you can't spend the big bucks on rangey superstars like other clubs do.

The idea that Viney gets squeezed out is nonsense though. Oliver is a similar type (slow, in and under) but he'd start in the middle of any club in the land. Viney's not at that level of course, but when he's not hurt (which hasn't happened in a couple of seasons) he's great at what he does. Yes it's true we need more run, better handball receive types... but that doesn't mean the extractors don't have a place, and Jack's one of our best.

You lost me at "Oliver is slow"

[Demon trucker 1,800]

1 hour ago, TGR said:

Stack’s bump was absolutely brilliant, textbook, fair...
 

Stack will be the pick of the bunch.  Marlion Pickett will exist in his shadow.

 

Stack is a combo of Cyril and Byron.  He is Viney’s kryptonite.  Big wrap.

 

An MFC supporter who can’t genuinely praise the technique and effect of that bump is a one eyed subjective simpleton.

 

 

 

TiGeR 

Bumps are easy to execute the lowest form of skill needed, bumping isn't tough, getting straight up after a big hit, like Viney did after that bump, now that's tough!!!, take your Viney hate away, praise Viney for getting straight up,  not  the coward who bumps a bloke when he's not looking

Edited March 4, 2020 by don't make me angry

[chookrat 3,870]

On 3/3/2020 at 1:05 AM, TeamPlayedFine39 said:

People are really shook up by this Roar article.  A fully fit Jack Viney is a gun.  

He’s done a full pre-season for the first time in years and was excellent against Adelaide in the one match we’ve played.  A player like Viney in the midfield rotation is a strength of our list, not a liability. 

I see Viney as a big game player. Look at when he came back early from his foot  injury in 2017 and tore apart WCE, our finals campaign in 2018. I see him playing a dozen or so solid games, a few quieter ones and around five critical, hard matches where he absolutely rips the game open. We've got the talent where we don't need Jack in top gear all of the time, but able to up his beastmode when needed in a way that turns games.

[drysdale demon 4,356]

2 hours ago, TGR said:

TiGeR 

What is this bit, what letters would you put in capital if your avatar was richard head.

[Tony Tea 2,792]

Big game AFL footy is still, at heart, a battle of competitive beasts. Few of those beasts are as competitive as our Jack. Writing him off through one-dimensionality or the Stack bump reveals more about the lack of footy smarts of the writer than it does about Jack.

[daisycutter 28,730]

7 hours ago, Accepting Mediocrity said:

Jesus some on here have short memories. Viney brings the type of hardness that we were begging for during our decade in the wilderness. 

Is he a complete midfielder? Of course not, but very, very few players are. Is a fit Jack Viney a key member of our best 22? Absolutely, and to suggest that he won't be in the near future is utter crazy talk. He's not a great kick, but neither is Dangerfield and he goes alright. 

Viney's lateral movement is actually pretty good IMO. Check out the second passage of play from the 2018 semi. Also note who made the desperate futile chase to pressure Gunston's kick in the next passage. Successful finals teams are built around players like Viney. 

 

don't you just love the roar of the crowd! gives you goose bumps

[Garbo 1,373]

Plenty other others would have to go out before Jack was on the chopping block, he might not be the star we hopped but as a 3rd or 4th mid I think he can't be beat. Just needs to play within himself when it comes to kicking.

Just to add Jones is 1 year from retirement and Brayshaw one knock away to. We don't have the depth people think

Edited March 4, 2020 by Garbo

[Redleg 38,764]

Stupid thread.

[binman 39,804]

2 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Stupid thread.

This thread is a liability.

Edited March 4, 2020 by binman

[Dappa Dan 2,188]

2 hours ago, Fifty-5 said:

You lost me at "Oliver is slow"

Why? He aint quick.

[drysdale demon 4,356]

12 minutes ago, Redleg said:

Stupid thread.

You have got that right

[Demon17 4,772]

15 hours ago, TGR said:

Stack’s bump was absolutely brilliant, textbook, fair...
 

 

You forget to add Cowardly, as are many 'famous' hits in AFL. e.g. Mark Yates on Brereton. 

In years to come when more is known about concussion long term,  your attitude will be ranked with those climate change deniers and others of similiar ilk.,

[Pates 9,563]

2 minutes ago, Demon17 said:

You forget to add Cowardly, as are many 'famous' hits in AFL. e.g. Mark Yates on Brereton. 

In years to come when more is known about concussion long term,  your attitude will be ranked with those climate change deniers and others of similiar ilk.,

Actually I don’t have much of an issue with Stacks bump on Viney. It wasn’t aimed at knocking Jacks head off, and he just crunched him in the right spot for maximum effect. 

But I tell you what it won’t surprise me if Jack has pencilled the Tigers game in as a statement for himself. The physical pain would’ve sucked, but I reckon he’ll be keen to give one back. 

[Demon17 4,772]

Just now, Pates said:

Actually I don’t have much of an issue with Stacks bump on Viney. It wasn’t aimed at knocking Jacks head off, and he just crunched him in the right spot for maximum effect. 

But I tell you what it won’t surprise me if Jack has pencilled the Tigers game in as a statement for himself. The physical pain would’ve sucked, but I reckon he’ll be keen to give one back. 

Agree. I just felt TGR needed to fully describe the act, rather than tell us how good Stack is.  Viney getting up off the canvas was more meaningful to me character-wise than taking cheap shots like Stack.

[Moonshadow 16,659]

1 hour ago, Demon17 said:

You forget to add Cowardly, as are many 'famous' hits in AFL. e.g. Mark Yates on Brereton. 

In years to come when more is known about concussion long term,  your attitude will be ranked with those climate change deniers and others of similiar ilk.,

Why was it cowardly when it was a body on body bump? That Jack's shoulder was injured shows it wasn't head high. 

If you're saying it was cowardly because Jack didn't see it coming, then there's the given that Australian Rules is a 360 deg sport where you have to expect the unexpected. In fact the vision shows him with the ball turning and getting a good look at Stack before the bump. May well say more about Viney's inability to react quick enough. It was perfectly fair.

The Brereton hit was well off the ball and not comparable. 

Not that I want to defend a Richmond supporter, but the bit about concussion is irrelevant to this.

 

Edited March 4, 2020 by Moonshadow

[monoccular 16,741]

On 3/3/2020 at 4:13 PM, Lord Nev said:

The kick retention stat is retaining possession from a kick inside 50m.

So it measures if a kick inside 50 is going to one of our own players or not.

I suspect it would also include balls coming into 50 and being locked in as a stoppage.

[Lord Nev 13,512]

24 minutes ago, monoccular said:

I suspect it would also include balls coming into 50 and being locked in as a stoppage.

Not 100% sure, from what I understand it's 'retained by the same team', so a 50/50 contest might not count.

 

[Dante 2,577]

Jack is very well respected by the club and that's why he's Vice Captain, he understands and accepts what has happened and as a young player it will give him the opportunity to hone his skill and maybe in a few years time he will have another shot at it.

The club settled on a two man leadership system rather than a large leadership group because it allows the other players to step up and doesn't mean they are in some sort of pecking order, meaning that leaders 5 and 6 are really peripheral anyway. If there is a need to replace either or both of the leaders in case of injury, that will be looked at if and when needed.

There may be some on here that have a low opinion of Jack's ability but rest assured they don't speak on behalf of the club.

 

Edited March 5, 2020 by Dante

[binman 39,804]

Just now, Dante said:

Jack is very well respected by the club and that's why he's Vice Captain, he understands and accepts what has happened and as a young player it will give him the opportunity to hone his skill and maybe in a few years time he will have another shot at it.

The club settled on a two man leadership system rather than a large leadership group because it allows the other players to step up and doesn't mean they are in some sort of pecking order, meaning that leaders 5 and 6 are really peripheral anyway. If there is a need to replace either or both of the leaders in case of injury, that will be looked at if and when needed.

There may be some on here that have a low opinion of Jack's ability but rest assured they don

 

Is don, is good

[drysdale demon 4,356]

16 minutes ago, Lord Nev said:

Not 100% sure, from what I understand it's 'retained by the same team', so a 50/50 contest might not count.

 

I will ask my daughter when I get a chance, she use to do the stats for the club