Defining Success in 2020 - Is Just Making Finals Enough?

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,880]

Posting this as a question, based on a proposition. I know this might seem like a somewhat strange and over ambitious given the 2019 that we have just endured, but to me, just stumbling over the line and making finals in 2020 would not represent enough of an improvement or step forward for me to get excited about. In my lifetime, I watched many talent laden MFC teams show loads of promise and even make a grand final or two, but barely any that I have watched have played consistently well enough finish the season in a preimship winning position of being in the upper echelon of the ladder with all it's perks of getting a double change and potential rest weeks at the pointy end. In the 80s, this would have ment a top 3 finish and now a days it's top 4.

I follow the MFC aspiring to one day watch them win a premiership. Making finals is simply not enough for me. I've watched the MFC play lots of finals over the last 30 years, notch up some good wins in them. I have seen the MFC play the kind of dominant kind of foot where myself and fellow supporters have rued watching GF's that we though we could have won, but been unable to contend after being bundled out of finals series at critical times. The reality is that for a number of reasons, unless teams finish in the top 4, they don't really have a fighting chance of making, let alone winning a GF.

Is finishing top 4 in 2020 a realistic objective? - I think it is. Richmond in 2017 went from 13th to 3rd. In 2018, although we only just stumbled into the finals series, from recollection, we were only a couple of wins off finishing top 4, with very winnable games against Geelong (twice), St Kilda and Port Adelaide that come to mind. I'm really hoping that 2019 was somewhat of an arbitration and this year we have an 'easy' draw to help us - something which probably helped the Tigers in 2017.

Our lack of compressiveness in 2019 was hard to watch and down right depressing at times, but in spite of that I wasn't that upset about it, because unless we won the premiership, then it was just another wasted season in the amoung the many that I have a supporter. I know that the team would be silly to publicly overtly state finishing top 4 as being the aim for the home and away season, but I really do hope that's what it is internally when guys like Roos have previously spoke about playing the kind of footy that will make us competitive in finals and push deep into September. Over the coming years as we enter that all important age/experience 'window' within our list, I really hope to see us adopt a new level of maturity, professionalism and ruthlessness that playing finals becomes an expectation and finishing top 4 and playing in premierships is the aim, not just making finals and I don't see why that shouldn't start in 2020.

Edited January 11, 2020 by Rodney (Balls) Grinter

[old dee 23,872]

Yes but we need to win the first finals game.

To expect more after scrapping into the finals in 2018 and then finishing second last in 2019 is expecting miracles and they never happen in the real world.

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

depends which season you see as the aberration.. 2018 (the last six odd weeks) or 2019 (a bad version of 2017).

If it's the former you would expect to see us splitting our win loss ratio with the top 8 and beating the bottom four convincingly. With a modicum of luck that is top 4.

If 2017/2019 is a better measure then top 8 is stretch.

The list will not get much better. Our "golden youngsters" of Oliver Petracca and Brayshaw should be hitting top form and Gawn is still going well. The older brigade of May, Hibberd, Jetta will to varying degrees decline as Jones has. Not much coming through unless you count last year's draft and we sold off our 2020 first round pick. After a lacklustre finals series the jury is out on Tomlinson but with Langdon they might provide a better balance to our goal leaking gameplan.

Would feel a lot more confident if we had a fit Hogan in the side but no such luck. We should not miss Lewis but we will.

Sadly I think we scrape into the top 8 and meander along in the river of irrelevancy that seems to be the inevitable fate of the MFC. Would be nice to be wrong. Like you I wouldn't mind a premiership or two.

[McQueen 17,867]

If we go through year with a relatively fit list and don’t make the 8 I’ll be bitterly disappointed. 
 

Simple as that. 

[Rodney (Balls) Grinter 10,880]

So just looking back on the 2018 W/L record and ladder again - another 1 win and we finish 3rd and play WC in Perth for the 2nd Qualifying final, another 2 wins and we finish 2nd and play WC in Melb.

Sydney in Rd 21 was the other very winnable game that we through away.  At the time there was uproar and panic on Demonland that it was the game that would see us miss our opportunity to make finals.  In retrospect, it was a game that prevented us from finishing top 4.  I know hindsight is kind of useless is some respects, but I think it can also be a useful guide and learning tool. 

That game against Sydney also really sums up the step change in maturity that those core players like Oliver, Brayshaw, Trac, Viney and even Max need to take.  My recollection of that game was that we absolutely blew them out of the water in the first quarter and established what really should have been a match winning lead.  Instead we enabled Sydney to peg back the lead over the course of the 2nd quarter and then start to dominate and dictate the game.  A mature side would have known how and when to defend that lead and close out the game.

I really do think that in 2018 we showed we were close to good enough.  Really looking for us to go to that next level and become clinical and consistent in seizing the opportunities that present.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,939]

I’ll call making the finals this year a raging success. 

We were so very bad this year that you can’t just write it 100% down to injuries and surgeries.

Not a lot of sides makes the finals off a 5 win season, so it would be a quite an achievement IMO if we make it.

[FlashInThePan 1,893]

For me a top 4 finish is s pass mark. I don't buy in to pessimism and I believe we are every chance to make top 4. From there it is gong to take a bit of luck but I am looking forward to watching this year unfold. On paper this is the most balanced side we have had for a considerable time. Inside bulls, outside runners, solid defence and potentially both tall and small forwards. It is gong to come down to fitness and form. 

I can't see the point in being pessimistic, for me it just kills the joy. This team could be anything, I'm behind them becoming premiers. 

[old dee 23,872]

40 minutes ago, Bring-Back-Powell said:

I’ll call making the finals this year a raging success. 

We were so very bad this year that you can’t just write it 100% down to injuries and surgeries.

Not a lot of sides makes the finals off a 5 win season, so it would be a quite an achievement IMO if we make it.

Spot on BBP.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

A week without a new thread on Demonland dredging up something from the past

A successful year is a consistent year of footy that's at least competitive against all teams and  that leads to enough wins to make finals, from there who knows?

[BAMF 4,386]

15 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

A week without a new thread on Demonland dredging up something from the past

Sigh... These sanctimonious 'typical Demonland' statements you come out with are getting really tiresome.

It's the off season. It's a thread discussing the upcoming season. Give it a rest.

[Gator 17,474]

Almost half the competition play finals, so making the 8 isn't being successful.  

For me success is finishing top 4 at the end of the H&A, because the premier nearly always comes from the top 4.  If you finish top 4 you've given yourself what 14 other teams wanted, a realistic chance.

[Satyriconhome 10,879]

8 minutes ago, BAMF said:

Sigh... These sanctimonious 'typical Demonland' statements you come out with are getting really tiresome.

It's the off season. It's a thread discussing the upcoming season. Give it a rest.

It's boring,  it's 2020, Watts, Hogan, Lumumba, Gysberts et al no longer play for club, let it go, they should be of no interest whatsoever 

The club gets accused about being behind the times, nothing compared to some on here

I am focused on new season, I just want a consistent competitive team, thst for me will be a success

 

[BAMF 4,386]

4 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

It's boring,  it's 2020, Watts, Hogan, Lumumba, Gysberts et al no longer play for club, let it go, they should be of no interest whatsoever 

The club gets accused about being behind the times, nothing compared to some on here

I am focused on new season, I just want a consistent competitive team, thst for me will be a success

 

It's a message board devoted to one thing. You can't get upset when people talk about parts of that one thing that you don't like.Let people talk about what they want. You can still have your say without getting bogged down in the stuff you don't like.

Back on topic:

Finals is a pass for me. There are other things besides making finals or making top 4 that we can analyse as part of being successful.

I would like to see some players make that next step. Brayshaw and Petracca are my main two that I have high hopes for.

Salem to find that extra 5% and added consistency.

Harmes could actually keep improving. I think most people think he has improved enough but there isn't any reason why he couldn't jump up to A grade talent.

Viney to stay injury free and remind a few on here about how he can actually play. Fingers crossed.

I'm also looking forward to seeing what Fritsch, Weid and Petty provide up front. On paper our forward line is not great. I would love to say the opposite by the end of the year.

[Diamond_Jim 12,628]

47 minutes ago, Satyriconhome said:

A successful year is a consistent year of footy that's at least competitive against all teams and  that leads to enough wins to make finals, from there who knows?

On that basis you would say that North is a largely successful team and yet they may well soon be fighting for their very existence if and when we move to odd team numbers with a Tasmanian based team.

[Engorged Onion 10,223]

40 minutes ago, BAMF said:

It's a message board devoted to one thing. You can't get upset when people talk about parts of that one thing that you don't like.Let people talk about what they want. You can still have your say without getting bogged down in the stuff you don't like.

Back on topic:

Finals is a pass for me. There are other things besides making finals or making top 4 that we can analyse as part of being successful.

I would like to see some players make that next step. Brayshaw and Petracca are my main two that I have high hopes for.

Salem to find that extra 5% and added consistency.

Harmes could actually keep improving. I think most people think he has improved enough but there isn't any reason why he couldn't jump up to A grade talent.

Viney to stay injury free and remind a few on here about how he can actually play. Fingers crossed.

I'm also looking forward to seeing what Fritsch, Weid and Petty provide up front. On paper our forward line is not great. I would love to say the opposite by the end of the year.

What does finding 5% for Salem look like @BAMF - put it into some observable metrics for me  

[Bay Riffin 1,480]

1 hour ago, BAMF said:

I'm also looking forward to seeing what Fritsch, Weid and Petty provide up front. On paper our forward line is not great. I would love to say the opposite by the end of the year.

I disagree. Melksham TMac and Petracca have elite attributes in the forward line. Frisch showed plenty in the last 7-8 games. Thats4 players of real quality. Only Petracca looked to be in a position of fully fit and playing forward last year. 

We have great competition for a second tall with weideman, petty, Jackson and Smith. 

Our gaping hole is forward pocket but we have some talent in Kossi, chandler and Bedford coming through. 

 

On paper if we got all those fit for round one we should do some damage. 

[sue 9,145]

1 hour ago, Diamond_Jim said:

On that basis you would say that North is a largely successful team and yet they may well soon be fighting for their very existence if and when we move to odd team numbers with a Tasmanian based team.

All depends on exactly what one means by succcess.  If I was a North supporter I'd feel that my club had been reasonably successful in recent times since I agree with Saty's modest defintion of success (competitive against all clubs) and that is a prerequisite for finals success. Obviously North fans, I and I presume Saty are greedy for more. 

But other factors like finance which might lead to 'unsuccess' are another matter and of less immediate concern to me. I don't chew pencils at the footy or swear at the TV worrying about relegation to Tas.  

To be provocative, I wonder how many posters whose fervent wish is 'just win a cup before I die' would rank that wish below or above MFC surviving for 20 years after they kicked the bucket...... (/end-sacrilege-head-to-bomb-shelter)

[Rab D Nesbitt 8,496]

Only one club can indisputably be called successful whilst for seventeen others success is measured in degrees and can be whatever suits their (or our) own narrative. Right now I'd call getting enough tridents seats together for my friends and I on level 2 of the northern stand a success. Whether it's a good or bad season I just want to be able to experience it with them. Call it emotional fortification. 

[Cards13 9,117]

Considering this is the season the club had ear marked as being a consistent finals team and consistently challenging for a flag then nothing short of that is a success for me, especially after last years total s h i tting of the bed. 

[John Demonic 5,850]

It's all about HOW we play this year. If we play well, but have a bit of bad luck or a few key injuries and just miss the 8, then I will look back on the year as somewhat of a success by comparison with last year. I think there will be a logjam of teams and you could make the top 4 or finish 12th in the space of round 22 and 23, depending on if you win or lose the fixtures.

So it will be hard to begrudge the club if we so happen to be on the end of a bit of bad luck and narrowly miss the 8, given how thin the margins between everyone to be.

Yeah Yeah, success means premierships, or top 4 and this is accepting mediocity. But after last year, mediocrity is success.  Small steps.

Edited January 11, 2020 by John Demonic

[dpositive 1,692]

5 hours ago, Satyriconhome said:

It's boring,  it's 2020, Watts, Hogan, Lumumba, Gysberts et al no longer play for club, let it go, they should be of no interest whatsoever 

The club gets accused about being behind the times, nothing compared to some on here

I am focused on new season, I just want a consistent competitive team, thst for me will be a success

 

Saty, while I understand "consistent, competitive" is a success, I did think that your passion like mine expects winning from our fantastic list. It's the first time in a while we have such a good blend of fit, young, old, fast, slow, big, small, determined, skilled, journeymen and maybe even x factors. There seems to be an improved attitude training with intensity and purpose.

i am really positive with them and our supporters to encourage each other and work on that above the shoulder confidence to achieve above and beyond just being competitive.

[Ron Burgundy 8,584]

For me in 2020;

- finishing top 4 is a success; 

- finishing top 6 is a pass;

- finishing below this is underwhelming; and

- finishing outside of the 8 is a war crime.

 

 

[jnrmac 20,189]

A home prelim represents success to me.

8 clubs make finals. It's frankly pathetic to consider making finals a success.

[jnrmac 20,189]

2 hours ago, Cards13 said:

Considering this is the season the club had ear marked as being a consistent finals team and consistently challenging for a flag then nothing short of that is a success for me, especially after last years total s h i tting of the bed. 

I thought that was 2016 under Roos...

[Cards13 9,117]

4 minutes ago, jnrmac said:

I thought that was 2016 under Roos...

2020 was the year of being a consistent flag contender.