Who bares the most blame?

[old dee 22,848]

You have to wonder at times who is the most to blame for a teams poor results.

Most of the time the players quite rightly cop it because they are the living proof when the final siren blows.

However a story in today's HUN shows to me that FD's should cop more of the blame then they currently get.

The surprise is that the MFC are looking for a kicking coach because they are not happy with our kicking for goal.

Hell there is a surprise every Dees supporter on the planet has been crying out for one since at least 2017.

Three seasons guys and the penny has finally dropped I suppose we should all be happy that they have finally acted but how many more games would we have won over the last two years if we had employed someone at the end of 2017 when the problem was staring us in the face.

 

Edited September 29, 2019 by old dee

[Fork 'em 6,507]

I'm sure if we were a bigger club with money falling out our backside we'd have a hell of alot more support around the place regarding development of players.

Same with the medical dept.
 

 

[old dee 22,848]

1 minute ago, Fork 'em said:

I'm sure if we were a bigger club with money falling out our backside we'd have a hell of alot more support around the place regarding development of players.

Same with the medical dept.
 

 

I don't buy that excuse on this subject. It has been plainly obvious to everyone that our poor kicking for goal has been a serious problem and has cost us a number of games over the last three years. It has been obvious even in games we have won. For it to take three years to try to remedy the situation is deplorable.

What can be more important than kicking accurately for goal. They have been numerous games where we have won every stat in a game but the one that counts the most ie. kicking a winning score.

To me it screams incompetence by the FD. 

[Sir Why You Little 34,434]

12 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

I'm sure if we were a bigger club with money falling out our backside we'd have a hell of alot more support around the place regarding development of players.

Same with the medical dept.
 

 

Accurate goalkicking could have won 4-5 games. Given us a top 4 spot last year

Would have paid the Coaches wage with change

[Fork 'em 6,507]

9 minutes ago, old dee said:

I don't buy that excuse on this subject. It has been plainly obvious to everyone that our poor kicking for goal has been a serious problem and has cost us a number of games over the last three years. It has been obvious even in games we have won. For it to take three years to try to remedy the situation is deplorable.

What can be more important than kicking accurately for goal. They have been numerous games where we have won every stat in a game but the one that counts the most ie. kicking a winning score.

To me it screams incompetence by the FD. 

You're singing my song man but I do wonder ...... 
You go down to training for eg and they're running with the bare minimum.

And it's not just kicking for goal.
They can't get the ball from one end of the ground to the other without a turnover either by hand or foot.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Fork 'em

[Willmoy1947 3,772]

I think we should have an AFL umpire and a Board Member from the AFL coaching us as well......

[John Crow Batty 8,255]

Goal kicking is a mind thing. Lack of confidence due to combinations of other failures accumulated within the club over the years. When coaching starts micro managing goal kicking it only gets worse. When we see players like Melksham who is arguably one of our best kickers crap himself 30 metres out in front it is obviously not a technical matter. Everyone else does it too. TMac had backslided rapidly with his accuracy this season. Petracca is a coin toss from easy distance. Viney hits about 1 in 5 from easy distance. Whether by team rules or not we don’t see players take responsibility from long distance  or angles like most other clubs do. Players  won’t take a shot unless 20 metres out or getting on the end of a Joe the Goose. Poor on field leadership is largely to blame also. Who is responsible out there to keep players focused during the heat of the game?

Edited September 30, 2019 by america de cali

[dazzledavey36 48,715]

I blame Jack Watts

[Fork 'em 6,507]

22 minutes ago, america de cali said:

Goal kicking is a mind thing. Lack of confidence due to combinations of other failures accumulated within the club over the years. When coaching starts micro managing goal kicking it only gets worse. When we see players like Melksham who is arguably one of our best kickers crap himself 30 metres out in front it is obviously not a technical matter. Everyone else does it too. TMac had backslided rapidly with his accuracy this season. Petracca is a coin toss from easy distance. Viney hits about 1 in 5 from easy distance. Whether by team rules or not we don’t see players take responsibility from long distance  or angles like most other clubs do. Players  won’t take a shot unless 20 metres out or getting on the end of a Joe the Goose. Poor on field leadership is largely to blame also. Who is responsible out there to keep players focused during the heat of the game?

I remember during my playing days.
I wasn't a bad kick and had reasonable skills but on the run with goals in front I was forking woeful.
Wasn't a bad snap, wasn't a bad set shot.

Same with a bloke leading straight at me.
Would put it at his feet time after time.
Leading on an angle and I could hit 'em.

And you are right about confidence.
The amount of times players were clear and instead of taking a shot they looked to dish off handing responsibility to someone else .....

Even Dusty Martin obviously has his demons.
30m out dead in front and he'll try play on and hook it in every time.
 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Fork 'em

[inanunda 312]

Watch the greats like Dunstall, Ablett and Carey and they all go back, take no more than five seconds to settle themselves and then they kick off only a few steps. The longer players wait the more doubt creeps into their heads, just like putting in golf.

[Marty 419]

It sounds as thou (reading training reports) that players will spend time just taking set shots from different positions. Great for technique but nothing like game day. They should be doing a series of short sprints mixed with jogs and then have a coach kick the ball into the position he wants them to take the shot from. If they mark they’ve got 30 sec if not 1-2 defenders apply pressure while they attempt to kick it. Make sure their technique stands up under fatigue.

[Sorry kids 635]

5 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

I remember during my playing days.
I wasn't a bad kick and had reasonable skills but on the run with goals in front I was forking woeful.
Wasn't a bad snap, wasn't a bad set shot.

Same with a bloke leading straight at me.
Would put it at his feet time after time.
Leading on an angle and I could hit 'em.

And you are right about confidence.
The amount of times players were clear and instead of taking a shot they looked to dish off handing responsibility to someone else .....

Even Dusty Martin obviously has his demons.
30m out dead in front and he'll try play on and hook it in every time.
 

Your comments highlight  not only the need for a coach but the right one. Long gone are the days where a coach demonstrates his technique and demands everyone follow it. yes some basics to be sure, but the coach needs the skills and knowledge to individualize players strengths  and weaknesses and work with them to improve.

[Fork 'em 6,507]

8 minutes ago, Sorry kids said:

Your comments highlight  not only the need for a coach but the right one. Long gone are the days where a coach demonstrates his technique and demands everyone follow it. yes some basics to be sure, but the coach needs the skills and knowledge to individualize players strengths  and weaknesses and work with them to improve.

Which takes money.
And the more specialised coaches .... The more money.
Was listening to the radio during the year.
Several players from opposition clubs are using Greg Williams one on one for example and been happy with their improvement.
I thought at the time Clarry would get alot of benefit from some time with him.
And he charges.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Fork 'em

[Sorry kids 635]

1 minute ago, Fork 'em said:

Which takes money.
And the more specialised coaches .... The more money.
Was listening on the radio during the year.
Several players from opposition clubs are using Greg Williams one on one for eg,  and been happy with their improvement.
I thought at the time Clarry would get alot of benefit from some time with him.

Greg Williams could embrace a role as an all round disposal coach, either hand, either foot, goalkicking. That is why you shop for the best you can find. Kicking wins matches=fans=sponsorship=money. It is a simple budgeting principle.

[P-man 13,168]

51 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

You're singing my song man but I do wonder ...... 
You go down to training for eg and they're running with the bare minimum.

And it's not just kicking for goal.
They can't get the ball from one end of the ground to the other without a turnover either by hand or foot.

I remember someone in the media, I think it might have been Ben Dixon, attended a training session in 2018 and commented that if you wanted to watch a team move the ball with precision, go watch Melbourne train. So basically the exact opposite of what you’re describing.

So between 2018 and 2019, confidence levels and/or understanding of what they’re meant to be doing has dropped significantly. It’s not as though they’ve forgotten how to kick in the space of one season.

Let’s hope they can rectify it quickly. A good start to the season is crucial. Both for the team and for Goodwin if he wants to keep his job beyond 2020.

And on topic, a goal kicking coach is clearly overdue, although it would be foolish to think it will be a miracle cure.

[Fork 'em 6,507]

29 minutes ago, P-man said:

I remember someone in the media, I think it might have been Ben Dixon, attended a training session in 2018 and commented that if you wanted to watch a team move the ball with precision, go watch Melbourne train. So basically the exact opposite of what you’re describing.

Find that hard to believe TBH.
We've been turnover merchants for years and years.
There's a reason Goody runs "Chaos ball" and it isn't because of our precision ball movement.
I remember them saying GWS were the ones to watch at training when the ball hardly hit the ground.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Fork 'em

[AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey 390]

2 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

I'm sure if we were a bigger club with money falling out our backside we'd have a hell of alot more support around the place regarding development of players.

Same with the medical dept.
 

 

Completely fair, we always seem to be behind the 8-ball with the little things. It has never been a fair competition and never will be. The rich get richer and all of that and its no surprise the bigger clubs have all been climbed the mountain over the last 20 years with all the money and support they can throw into the footy department

[Fork 'em 6,507]

5 minutes ago, AaronDaveyChipsAndGravey said:

Completely fair, we always seem to be behind the 8-ball with the little things. It has never been a fair competition and never will be. The rich get richer and all of that and its no surprise the bigger clubs have all been climbed the mountain over the last 20 years with all the money and support they can throw into the footy department

With player salary capped the big clubs have turned it into an arms race off field which is why some have suggested capping football dept spending.

Edited September 30, 2019 by Fork 'em

[P-man 13,168]

45 minutes ago, Fork 'em said:

Find that hard to believe TBH.
We've been turnover merchants for years and years.
There's a reason Goody runs "Chaos ball" and it isn't because of our precision ball movement.
I remember them saying GWS were the ones to watch at training when the ball hardly hit the ground.

I’m not sure which part you find hard to believe. I’m just reporting what was said at the time. Dixon had no reason to lie about it.

To me it just highlights the difference between this season and last. The training reports this year were far from glowing.

[monoccular 16,050]

1 hour ago, inanunda said:

Watch the greats like Dunstall, Ablett and Carey and they all go back, take no more than five seconds to settle themselves and then they kick off only a few steps. The longer players wait the more doubt creeps into their heads, just like putting in golf.

I agree generally with your comments and especially regards to putting.  

However there are exceptions - Ben Brown and the Dive Bomber are two who spring to mind. 

[Gorgoroth 12,308]

I thought we were informed that practicing goal kicker wasn’t required...

[Fork 'em 6,507]

11 minutes ago, P-man said:

I’m not sure which part you find hard to believe. I’m just reporting what was said at the time. Dixon had no reason to lie about it.

To me it just highlights the difference between this season and last. The training reports this year were far from glowing.

Well lets say I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks we move the ball with precision above some of the other clubs.
Even in 2018 our conversion rate of inside 50 entries was deplorable.
There isn't any precision with Hail Mary bombs to contests.

[La Dee-vina Comedia 16,394]

1 hour ago, Fork 'em said:

I remember during my playing days.
I wasn't a bad kick and had reasonable skills but on the run with goals in front I was forking woeful.
Wasn't a bad snap, wasn't a bad set shot.

Same with a bloke leading straight at me.
Would put it at his feet time after time.
Leading on an angle and I could hit 'em.

And you are right about confidence.
The amount of times players were clear and instead of taking a shot they looked to dish off handing responsibility to someone else .....

Even Dusty Martin obviously has his demons.
30m out dead in front and he'll try play on and hook it in every time.
 

What's the tune here? It certainly looks like it's been written in the form of song lyrics. 

[P-man 13,168]

1 minute ago, Fork 'em said:

Well lets say I find it hard to believe that anyone thinks we move the ball with precision above some of the other clubs.
Even in 2018 our conversion rate of inside 50 entries was deplorable.
There isn't any precision with Hail Mary bombs to contests.

Well, that’s what he said.

In fairness, the end to end ball movement last season was at times good to watch. It wasn’t all chaos balls and bombing in hope. You don’t make a prelim final by turning over the ball repeatedly. 

[Fork 'em 6,507]

27 minutes ago, P-man said:

Well, that’s what he said.

In fairness, the end to end ball movement last season was at times good to watch. It wasn’t all chaos balls and bombing in hope. You don’t make a prelim final by turning over the ball repeatedly. 

They did it by having a fit list during the season and getting some confidence at the right time of the year.
Still dropped games they shouldn't have and made harder work than should have been in others.
You look at the stats, we'd dominate clearance and inside 50 count near every game but the ball would often leave just as quick as it went in.
The midfield consisted of Viney, Clarry, Brayshaw and Jones, none of whom precision by foot is a strong point.
Even the 2 finals we couldn't put the opposition away till late game despite being all over them both early.
It was manic attack on the ball and man that got us through.
Then we came up against a side in the prelim who could move the ball with some real precision,  they pulled our pants down for all to see.

And FWIW we've missed Hogan rotating through the forward line with Tmac this year as the Weid hasn't come on like we'd hoped.
For all his flaws a big bloke with a good engine is hard to match up on.
 

Edited September 30, 2019 by Fork 'em