Roos: Lazy Dees

[Demon17 5,186]

9 hours ago, Demon Disciple said:

Would that not be a 180 then SD?

No  360 is the correct HR term for an all round review of your behaviours. 180 would just be a U turn

[beelzebub 23,313]

3 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

Because you want to be a good footballer? Because you're a competitor that hates to lose? Because you have integrity? Because you respect your coach? Because your leaders demand it? I dunno, there's a bunch of reasons why OTHER clubs would do it, not sure about us though.

Once...in a time now long forgotten it would have been reason enough, to play to your best, simply because you had the privilege  of wearing the jumper. 

[Grimes Times 1,278]

4 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Sorry HW but Gus makes the decision to leave Pendles too early here.  The ground ball is still in dispute with Gus having touch on Pendles but instead of waiting to see who wins, Gus just 'assumes' we will get it out and heads towards goal.  Even after realising we've lost the contest he just stands there ball watching like a junior.

Pendles does not assume and waits a tad longer, watching carefully to see who wins before committing either way.

Jones is also not paying Sidebottom the respect needed with the ball in our defensive half, allowing him space and time to execute under zero pressure.  He actually never impacts on Sidebottom at any stage.

We are slack in structure & mind set. 

Four Pies playing fat side forward as the contest unfolds with Zero MFC players covering goal side as they need to be with the ball still the wrong side of center.  Way too many sucked towards the contest, which we lost anyway.

What we are seeing are defensive standards, practices and mind sets that are a mile from cutting it at AFL level.

If Goody chooses to ignore this aspect going in to 2020 you can kiss next season off already.  You simply can't defend against even mediocre opponents playing in this manner let alone the cream up the top.

When people question how we had so many inside 50s against the Cats but still managed to lose by 80 points....it lays with an extremely innefective forward line plus the super ordinary 'team' defensive methods, structures (or lack thereof) and mind sets we are witnessing here.

There's no doubt that Gus rolled the dice and started to leave the contest early. Some stay that's cheating some say that's summing up the situation and reading of the play. Unfortunately for Gus the out numbers lost the contest and Pendles was left to receive an easy ball. Who knows if Gus was actually on Pendles at the time or just closest to him at the start of the clip. You could say Pendles should have gone with Gus as Melb had the numbers or even gone to the contest to even the numbers up. Or was he just lazy or did he roll the dice hoping the pies would win the contest even when out numbered.

Anyone who runs forward and gets the ball its great reading of the play. 

Anyone who runs forwards and doesn't get the ball its cheating and lazy.

[beelzebub 23,313]

4 hours ago, In Harmes Way said:

Easy to potshot Gus here, but if you look closely at the vision as the ball is in dispute, there's 5 Dees players vs 3 Pies players contesting the ball.

At that point, Gus is moving away from Pendlebury in anticipation of the ball coming out to our advantage. 

We should be potting others that lost the ball, and who let the ball get to Sidebottom before we have a go at Gus.

Actually in the main I totally disagree..The only thing I will agree on is that it's easy to pot Gus here..  and it should be...he completely [censored] this up both ways and sideways .  Here he really has one job and he abandons it through poor decision making. Generally I like Gus but he's gone backwards.. mind you he has a lot of friends in this regard.

As to what the others are doing...yes...it's all totally stupid football...and they are doing exactly what their stupid coaching is instructing. Blame here is back in the box. We fail by design. Yeah I know..i've only said it a thousand times

[titan_uranus 24,974]

I don't usually like cherry picking an individual play because there's often a loss of context, and it's so easy to freeze the frame and make comments when the reality of a footy game is that things happen in split seconds.

In saying this, the general problem of us having too many players commit to a contest is a genuine issue we've had for years. It happens at stoppages and it happens in marking contests. Too many of our players go to the ball. Some of that is, I think, because we drafted players with that ball-hunting instinct and trying to coach instinct out of players can be very difficult. With the stoppages, some of it will also be because of how we have developed the list and game plan to start with contested ball.

I'm not sure I agree with all of the criticism of Brayshaw - one of our problems is a lack of spread and I'm confident he's listening to the coaches and trying to get some outside run from contests so that, when we win a contested ball, we have someone to be on the end of the next kick. We had plenty of players at that contest and should have at least nullified it, if not won it.

[drdrake 3,162]

Interesting with the start of the vision, to me both clubs players were cheating, in that both Melbourne and Collingwood players were on the attacking side of the contest.  Melbourne had 1 player set in a defensive position and I think the pies had 2.  Both clubs had 4-6 players on the attacking side.

Basically whoever won the ball at the contest was going to transition into their attack very quickly and whoever lost the contest Melbourne was going to be severely exposed.  The fact we didn't work hard enough from the contest is a secondary point.  I have seen this all year we have players one the forward side of the contest and very few on the defensive side.  Week before there was a ball up in our back pocket, easy tap not one Melbourne player between to contest and the Goal line, open goal resulted.

To me we are trying to play the old Richmond and Bulldogs style of just move the ball forward at all cost, that explains why players more players are forward of the ball.  Issue is we turn it over we have no mids in defensive positions.

This footage showed by Roo's the players positions for Melb need to be switched 1-2 players forward of the ball and the rest setting up in defensive positions.  Win the ball then work hard to be a option.  Pretty simple U12 stuff

Edited August 13, 2019 by drdrake

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

I still argue he left too early and positioned himself well forward of the contest alongside two other Demon players GT, Corey & Harmes.  He was 10 meters away just as the handball clearance left the Pies player from his ground ball get (see 17 second mark).  20 meters and out of screen by the time Sidebottom had the ball in hand and took his first step inside to handball.

Unless we had Greg Williams with some super power there was no way a handball was getting anywhere near Gus given his poor postioning even if we won that contest.

If he was lucky he might get an errant kick from a quick bail out if Jones or Lewis were lucky enough to be on the end of an accidental spillage.

By leaving so early Gus takes the handball receive out of play, he plays a low percentage option of potentially receiving an unlikely quick bail out AND he leaves Pendles goal side the entire time while the ball is still in our defensive half.

I understand the "who was on who" part but at that moment Pendles was Gus's responsibility and he clearly had touch.  He new exactly where he was and chose to let him off the leash with the ball in our defensive half.  If it was on OUR forward flank i would be more understanding if he went a tad early to try and get off the leash (assuming Pendles was somehow in the reverse situation as minder).

Some of our mids (Clarry being one) and Lewis also forgot to stay off the contest and pick up a Pie opponent around HB instead.  This allowed the Pies to have  three unmarked players on their HF line fat side ready to mop up the receive.  Add an off the leash Pendles being set free by Gus and it was four.  Training drill.

If it was a Pie rookie or poor ball user the risk might make more sense.  Certainly not a great idea giving that sort of freedom to the opp's best user and finisher, especially forward of centre.

Edited August 13, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[bragswoewodin 17]

15 hours ago, Skin Deeamond said:

Thanks Garry Lyon for your constant non-constructive criticism of the MFC and your role in picking the worst coaches we’ve had this century. Thanks Gerard Healy for leaving us in the late 1980s just when we needed you to help win a premiership. Thanks Roosy for taking the big bucks, leaving when we still needed you and now just sniping at your successor. You all need to take a 360 degree look at yourselves!

Yeah I don’t think that’s helpful. They are right, and I was horrified in seeing that. Not that it happened, but as they have correctly stated, it just keeps happening and exacerbates a known fault in our list profile. While I feel Healy isn’t necessarily the best commentator, Roos noted it as a learning opportunity and Lyon clearly has the passion and anger we all share. 

I welcome this focus and scrutiny. If we are to have any chance to change and improve in 2020, we need to realise what’s going wrong.

 

[spirit of norm smith 16,283]

Last year we won the contested footy. 

This year teams have improved and now win the footy. We are exposed.  

Goodwin had no plan B. 

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

8 hours ago, Fork 'em said:

I remember thinking during the 1st qr of the season after several very soft frees against us.
"Ya know what, if this is the AFL vision of how they want the game umpired from now on ..... I'm about done."
And then watching us proceed to absolutely butcher the season has done nothing to bring me back.
If more of the same is dished up next year ..... I'm gonna have to cut my ties completely.
I've had it up to 'ear with the angst this club has given me throughout my life.
And as I've had plenty of practice, I'll be able to spot the BS early.
Unlike the happy clappers.

Lets see how it pans out FE.  A huge off season of sorting the draft hats, getting our act in order physically with the injection of Burgess and hopefully Goody making some major changes to his style/methods.

I think there will be a turnaround anyway as i doubt we could plumb these depths again if we tried.  Even doing much of the same with a better pre-season should see us within the 8 to 12 range on the ladder by mid season which will be a relief .... for some!

As for taking us to the next level (finals) and maintaining it consistently for years, i very much doubt that would happen unless he submits and adds some significant defensive and possession / tempo options into the mix.

Personally i also think Goody needs to harden up his style and get a few whips cracking...a tad too "brotherly" with the boys for mine from the limited insight i've witnessed so far.

We will certainly know by QB whether he can cut the mustard or neh and whether this season was an anomaly.

[Deecisive 1,709]

whats all this asking players to man up...  we get our players to stand much like witches hats in vacant spaces between opposition players so as not to impede their run forward.

[Ted Lasso 19,286]

20 hours ago, bing181 said:

Work ethic comes back 100% to the players. If the players can't behave like professional athletes, then they go.

 

Hard work motivating yourself if you don't believe in the coach, or the direction he's setting. i think it's a combination of the two.

[SFebes 4,884]

5 hours ago, spirit of norm smith said:

Last year we won the contested footy. 

This year teams have improved and now win the footy. We are exposed.  

Goodwin had no plan B. 

Funny you mention this, on On the Couch I think they said WCE are 18th in contested possessions and Richmond 16th. Hmmmm, why do we bash our players around while other teams laugh at us.

[beelzebub 23,313]

12 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

Lets see how it pans out FE.  A huge off season of sorting the draft hats, getting our act in order physically with the injection of Burgess and hopefully Goody making some major changes to his style/methods.

I think there will be a turnaround anyway as i doubt we could plumb these depths again if we tried.  Even doing much of the same with a better pre-season should see us within the 8 to 12 range on the ladder by mid season which will be a relief .... for some!

As for taking us to the next level (finals) and maintaining it consistently for years, i very much doubt that would happen unless he submits and adds some significant defensive and possession / tempo options into the mix.

Personally i also think Goody needs to harden up his style and get a few whips cracking...a tad too "brotherly" with the boys for mine from the limited insight i've witnessed so far.

We will certainly know by QB whether he can cut the mustard or neh and whether this season was an anomaly.

Reckon we'll  know a LOT sooner than that. It just might take until QB for our Brains (sic ) Trust to do anything 

[binman 42,673]

13 minutes ago, beelzebub said:

Reckon we'll  know a LOT sooner than that. It just might take until QB for our Brains (sic ) Trust to do anything 

BB i'm sorry it's me not you. I've tried but i can't do this anymore.

I put very few posters on ignore. Really only the obnoxious or plain crazy. You certainly don't fall into either camp.

But I can't go on like this. Reading the same posts over and over again. The sheer repetition. The volume. I have to think of myself.

So we need a break. Maybe with a bit of ignore time it will get back to how it was. Until then adieu. Don't go changing.

[pitmaster 3,513]

On 8/13/2019 at 1:43 AM, Skin Deeamond said:

Thanks Garry Lyon for your constant non-constructive criticism of the MFC and your role in picking the worst coaches we’ve had this century. Thanks Gerard Healy for leaving us in the late 1980s just when we needed you to help win a premiership. Thanks Roosy for taking the big bucks, leaving when we still needed you and now just sniping at your successor. You all need to take a 360 degree look at yourselves!

This is a truly impressive grasp of history you have here.

It is a tad unkind to Roos, who after all said he was only in the job for three years all along; and it's a tad unkind to G Lyon, who bled for the club many times and was one of the finest captains the club ever had, and truly gave it his all, and yet it's also in so many ways so right.

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

2 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Reckon we'll  know a LOT sooner than that. It just might take until QB for our Brains (sic ) Trust to do anything 

Possibly BB but personally i hope we don't need to go there.  It would probably mean another 2 years or more of irrelevancy and bouncing along the bottom.  Something we are accustomed to far too often.

Then there's the three year contract.  Would be an expensive payout and we aren't exactly the wealthiest AFL club. 

Better option might be to add a senior assistant to sit alongside the senior coach...

Edited August 14, 2019 by Rusty Nails

[beelzebub 23,313]

11 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

Possibly BB but personally i hope we don't need to go there.  It would probably mean another 2 years or more of irrelevancy and bouncing along the bottom.  Something we are accustomed to far too often.

Then there's the three year contract.  Would be an expensive payout and we aren't exactly the wealthiest AFL club. 

Better option might be to add a senior assistant to sit alongside the senior coach...

Well I suspect in the immediate short term this this happen anyway. As others also might be, I'm thinking Richardson could be ok in this role. A concern for mine goes to the preparedness of Simon to swallow a bit of pride and really start listening to people. I say this as like him or not  I suspect Macca wasnt getting his primary concerns across sufficiently. He leaves/left  Jennings seems to have been a lame duck and by all accounts is/was a very capable reader of the game. Again  I have to conclude he wasn't being "heard" , he leaves/left.

Rusty I can only hope things change for the better, and in the end I could care less whether it's Goodwin or anyone else bringing joy to the club. I would like to think that's not a one way iron clad contract in favour of Goodwin. If it is.. Pert should [censored] off and pay out Simon's residual out of his own pocket for sheer incompetence.

Hypothetically should we still be on the mat, against the ropes, gasping for air  or any other metaphor of choice then I don;t think it would take those 2 years. The likes of Shaw, Teague, Ratten etc show it might not be the players...just the map and instructions given them.

I for one don't think this list is anywhere nearly as bad as we play

[old dee 23,781]

21 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Once...in a time now long forgotten it would have been reason enough, to play to your best, simply because you had the privilege  of wearing the jumper. 

What a funny fellow you are bb!

[Demon Dynasty 17,109]

22 hours ago, beelzebub said:

Once...in a time now long forgotten it would have been reason enough, to play to your best, simply because you had the privilege  of wearing the jumper. 

[Dr.D 1,771]

at no point this year have I seen a single spray from goodwin. the fans need to see something.  I want Goodwin gone for someone with some mongrel like Brad Scott. 

[Coq au vin 755]

20 hours ago, bragswoewodin said:

Yeah I don’t think that’s helpful. They are right, and I was horrified in seeing that. Not that it happened, but as they have correctly stated, it just keeps happening and exacerbates a known fault in our list profile. While I feel Healy isn’t necessarily the best commentator, Roos noted it as a learning opportunity and Lyon clearly has the passion and anger we all share. 

I welcome this focus and scrutiny. If we are to have any chance to change and improve in 2020, we need to realise what’s going wrong.

 

Garry Lyon has the attitude that the Dees are a basket case and will never come good. That’s not helpful from a past captain and great player of the club.

[Demon3 2,541]

13 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

Garry Lyon has the attitude that the Dees are a basket case and will never come good. That’s not helpful from a past captain and great player of the club.

I don't think that's either true or fair, but it seems when it comes to discussing Lyon on these forums, those 2 criteria don't apply. His attitude is the same as most fair and balanced supporters, that this year has been a disaster and there is lots of things to work on and the jury is out on whether last year one out of the box.. you cant argue with it, its true and until we prove that 2018 wasn't a fluke then the club will be under pressure.

 

 

[praha 11,236]

31 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

Garry Lyon has the attitude that the Dees are a basket case and will never come good. That’s not helpful from a past captain and great player of the club.

He's a passionate Melbourne man that is frustrated. What do you want him to say? Everything will be rosy? Nothing he said is wrong.

[Neil Crompton 5,516]

26 minutes ago, President Dee Trump said:

Garry Lyon has the attitude that the Dees are a basket case and will never come good. That’s not helpful from a past captain and great player of the club.

Lyon is blessed with a very public forum to express his views. And those views simply express the bitter disappointment he feels towards the current set up at the club he shed blood and tears for. Who could blame him? Thank god most of us DL’s don’t have that same public forum - the tone would be a hell of a lot worse. I’m sure however that Lyon doesn’t believe that we “will never come good”.