I am not a massive fan of Aaron Vandenberg as a player, but I can certainly accept that some of our best football in 2018 was played when he was in the side late in the season.

By the end of this season AVB will have played just 7 out of 69 AFL games across three seasons, an appalling return for a player who will be 28 before next season starts.

Give that, I am surprised at the radio silence surrounding his continued absence and ongoing injury issues. I would like to know:

1. Is AVB's current injury related to overuse or to a single, unavoidable event? Did we push him too hard to return in 2018, or again through the 2019 preseason?

2. Given AVB's injury history and Sydney's reported interest last year, on what basis did we offer him a three year contract? Was this in any way conditional on his continued fitness?

3. Did giving AVB a long term contract, presumably on decent money, affect our ability to retain either Tyson or Kent?

4. When did it become apparent that AVB would take little or no part in this season, as the initial reports were that he would return sooner rather than later (ie within weeks, not months)? Why have members not been kept better informed on his progress.

5. Has there been any progress made since round 1? Will AVB be able to do a full pre season, or are we still completely in the dark as to what the problem is?

6. Is AVB still in Melbourne doing rehab, or is he off working in his family business?

7. At what point do we consider paying out AVB's contract and freeing up a list position if he can't get back on the training track?

6 minutes ago, poita said:

I am not a massive fan of Aaron Vandenberg as a player, but I can certainly accept that some of our best football in 2018 was played when he was in the side late in the season.

By the end of this season AVB will have played just 7 out of 69 AFL games across three seasons, an appalling return for a player who will be 28 before next season starts.

Give that, I am surprised at the radio silence surrounding his continued absence and ongoing injury issues. I would like to know:

1. Is AVB's current injury related to overuse or to a single, unavoidable event? Did we push him too hard to return in 2018, or again through the 2019 preseason?

2. Given AVB's injury history and Sydney's reported interest last year, on what basis did we offer him a three year contract? Was this in any way conditional on his continued fitness?

3. Did giving AVB a long term contract, presumably on decent money, affect our ability to retain either Tyson or Kent?

4. When did it become apparent that AVB would take little or no part in this season, as the initial reports were that he would return sooner rather than later (ie within weeks, not months)? Why have members not been kept better informed on his progress.

5. Has there been any progress made since round 1? Will AVB be able to do a full pre season, or are we still completely in the dark as to what the problem is?

6. Is AVB still in Melbourne doing rehab, or is he off working in his family business?

7. At what point do we consider paying out AVB's contract and freeing up a list position if he can't get back on the training track?

AVB is an extremely important player for us. Their was evidence of that when he played in our side last year.

Hopefully our new fitness guy can get him right, because I'm not sure if Mission can.

I reckon he'd be on 300 - 350k a year.

Kent wanted to leave so doubt it had anything to do with that.

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by ErmieJones

8. Why did we sign up an injury prone, slow, hard at it player, whose main talent is tackling, for 3 years, but ship out another injury prone player who was a fast, hard, goal kicker and great user going inside 50 (Kent, that is) because he wanted 3 years?

To me, the second player has all the attributes our list is clearly lacking more than the first.

 

 

1 minute ago, Lord Nev said:

8. Why did we sign up an injury prone, slow, hard at it player, whose main talent is tackling, for 3 years, but ship out another injury prone player who was a fast, hard, goal kicker and great user going inside 50 (Kent, that is) because he wanted 3 years?

To me, the second player has all the attributes our list is clearly lacking more than the first.

 

 

Surely you don't think he's slow? 

Kent also said he wanted more midfield time, something we couldn't offer him and something he hasnt ended up getting at St Kilda, maybe he has a [censored] tank?

You couldn't see how important Vanders was last season?

AVB was effectively signed to Sydney  for family reasons and we changed his mind so we certainly wanted him.

His ongoing injury is just bad luck and in the scheme of things something every football club endures.

We may need to make a decision on AVB over the summer. There is salary cap relief for paying out long term injured players. Like many I would be disappointed if he stays next year and the injury is ongoing.

6 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

 Like many I would be disappointed if he stays next year and the injury is ongoing.

But I would be rapt if he made it back. He elevates our forward pressure incredibly.

I was sorry to see Kent go like others, but he has been unusually resilient for the Saints. He really never had a good run at it with us. And as much as I liked him he was not particularly reliable in front of goal, although that seems to have improved too, like his fitness. Still, if AVB were fit we would not be missing Kent.

I realise this answers precisely none of the questions in the OP but that's because I don't know.

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by pitmaster

Who knows?  Half of the answers you could find if you made some effort, others are obvious (#3 for example) and some we may never be privy to.  How does answering these questions give us anything of value?  How does it help us make better decisions from here?  Who do you want to be mad at?   I will leave the witch hunts to the witch hunter general.

2 hours ago, ErmieJones said:

Surely you don't think he's slow? 

Kent also said he wanted more midfield time, something we couldn't offer him and something he hasnt ended up getting at St Kilda, maybe he has a [censored] tank?

You couldn't see how important Vanders was last season?

Kent wanted more midfield time but didn’t get it, much like Howe said he wanted forward time at Colonwood and didn’t. 

And agree 100% that VDB when fit offers a huge boost well in excess of his purely statistical footy output. A bit of X factor. 

We pushed him way too hard on the fateful day at Casey. Moved on to the ball after injuries and had a stack of tackles and collisions. He's exactly the type of player you work in to a season slowly rather than thrust in to a heated preseason game with limited rotations.

Average skills but his contested game and pace are excellent on the wing, at half forward or in spurts on the ball.

He had a really nasty heel injury that required multiple surgeries and was always going to be vulnerable. When he injured it again the advice was take it really slow with recovery even though the damage doesn't seem all that bad.

The last time he was mentioned in a Misson update had him running twice a week which is steady yet clearly very slow progress. There's still months to go until any list decisions have to be made but I expect unless there's some kind of out in his contract that they'll give him next year to see if he comes good. 

2 hours ago, poita said:

I am not a massive fan of Aaron Vandenberg as a player, but I can certainly accept that some of our best football in 2018 was played when he was in the side late in the season.

By the end of this season AVB will have played just 7 out of 69 AFL games across three seasons, an appalling return for a player who will be 28 before next season starts.

Give that, I am surprised at the radio silence surrounding his continued absence and ongoing injury issues. I would like to know:

1. Is AVB's current injury related to overuse or to a single, unavoidable event? Did we push him too hard to return in 2018, or again through the 2019 preseason?

2. Given AVB's injury history and Sydney's reported interest last year, on what basis did we offer him a three year contract? Was this in any way conditional on his continued fitness?

3. Did giving AVB a long term contract, presumably on decent money, affect our ability to retain either Tyson or Kent?

4. When did it become apparent that AVB would take little or no part in this season, as the initial reports were that he would return sooner rather than later (ie within weeks, not months)? Why have members not been kept better informed on his progress.

5. Has there been any progress made since round 1? Will AVB be able to do a full pre season, or are we still completely in the dark as to what the problem is?

6. Is AVB still in Melbourne doing rehab, or is he off working in his family business?

7. At what point do we consider paying out AVB's contract and freeing up a list position if he can't get back on the training track?

It rubs the lotion on its skin or else it gets the hose again

2 hours ago, ErmieJones said:

Surely you don't think he's slow? 

Kent also said he wanted more midfield time, something we couldn't offer him and something he hasnt ended up getting at St Kilda, maybe he has a [censored] tank?

You couldn't see how important Vanders was last season?

I think he's slow based on the entire AFL and our needs, he's probably about average for us, but that's not exactly a compliment. I don't dislike the bloke at all, love his intensity and pressure, and he gave us some really lifting moments late last year. I'm more reflecting on us deciding which injury prone player to gamble with and yet again we go with the hard at it, 'not fast', inside mid type of player rather than the speedy, skillful and scoreboard impacting player which definitely seems like something we lack.

For mine, Kent was more important late last year than vB was, it's just that vB had more of the cult status to him, bit like people who think Preuss is the answer this year (not saying you think that btw).

FWIW, my info was that we offered Kent a 1 year deal, but St Kilda offered 3, and with a new young family he made the mature decision to go with the better security.

 

Relax. Misson is gone at years end, watch AVB make a miraculous recovery and play all 22 (hopefully 25) games next year! 

2 hours ago, poita said:

I am not a massive fan of Aaron Vandenberg as a player, but I can certainly accept that some of our best football in 2018 was played when he was in the side late in the season.

By the end of this season AVB will have played just 7 out of 69 AFL games across three seasons, an appalling return for a player who will be 28 before next season starts.

Give that, I am surprised at the radio silence surrounding his continued absence and ongoing injury issues. I would like to know:

1. Is AVB's current injury related to overuse or to a single, unavoidable event? Did we push him too hard to return in 2018, or again through the 2019 preseason?

2. Given AVB's injury history and Sydney's reported interest last year, on what basis did we offer him a three year contract? Was this in any way conditional on his continued fitness?

3. Did giving AVB a long term contract, presumably on decent money, affect our ability to retain either Tyson or Kent?

4. When did it become apparent that AVB would take little or no part in this season, as the initial reports were that he would return sooner rather than later (ie within weeks, not months)? Why have members not been kept better informed on his progress.

5. Has there been any progress made since round 1? Will AVB be able to do a full pre season, or are we still completely in the dark as to what the problem is?

6. Is AVB still in Melbourne doing rehab, or is he off working in his family business?

7. At what point do we consider paying out AVB's contract and freeing up a list position if he can't get back on the training track?

This is called being wise after the event.  Everyone is a genius in hindsight.

Don't forget he was probably our best player over the 3 finals we played.

That said I doubt he will play again - 7 games in 3 seasons & 27 years old.

Is it a mystery? He's always injured and it sucks.

2 hours ago, Lord Nev said:

8. Why did we sign up a... slow, 

 

 

Wow, AvdB is one of the quickest players on the list!

3 hours ago, poita said:

I am not a massive fan of Aaron Vandenberg as a player, but I can certainly accept that some of our best football in 2018 was played when he was in the side late in the season.

By the end of this season AVB will have played just 7 out of 69 AFL games across three seasons, an appalling return for a player who will be 28 before next season starts.

Give that, I am surprised at the radio silence surrounding his continued absence and ongoing injury issues. I would like to know:

1. Is AVB's current injury related to overuse or to a single, unavoidable event? Did we push him too hard to return in 2018, or again through the 2019 preseason?

2. Given AVB's injury history and Sydney's reported interest last year, on what basis did we offer him a three year contract? Was this in any way conditional on his continued fitness?

3. Did giving AVB a long term contract, presumably on decent money, affect our ability to retain either Tyson or Kent?

4. When did it become apparent that AVB would take little or no part in this season, as the initial reports were that he would return sooner rather than later (ie within weeks, not months)? Why have members not been kept better informed on his progress.

5. Has there been any progress made since round 1? Will AVB be able to do a full pre season, or are we still completely in the dark as to what the problem is?

6. Is AVB still in Melbourne doing rehab, or is he off working in his family business?

7. At what point do we consider paying out AVB's contract and freeing up a list position if he can't get back on the training track?

I agree with the sentiment but you lost me when you mentioned Kent and Tyson.  Tyson was never going to get an inside mid role and Kent was just as injury prone as AVB. 

49 minutes ago, Cranky Franky said:

This is called being wise after the event.  Everyone is a genius in hindsight.

Don't forget he was probably our best player over the 3 finals we played.

That said I doubt he will play again - 7 games in 3 seasons & 27 years old.

?

43 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Wow, AvdB is one of the quickest players on the list!

Agree - his initial burst speed is impressive and if he is pursuing an oppo player, you just know it is going to end in a (legitimate) bone-crunching tackle that lifts teammates and makes the opposition wary

55 minutes ago, dee-tox said:

Wow, AvdB is one of the quickest players on the list!

Which backs up my point about our list.

The end of Misson's disastrous reign can't come soon enough.  Been a mighty long time since i've seen such an ill prepared and under done team lacking in AFL level fitness and conditioning (even amongst many that weren't effected pre-season) for the start of a season (other than during his reign under Neeld but still under Misson).

Not saying all our woes are on Misson but i've yet to see us come out of the blocks and hit the season running (including consistently solid first quarter openings) since he started.

Think we will see a completely different team appear next season, subject to the new appointment being kosher.

Edited June 26, 20196 yr by Rusty Nails

So who will the new whipping boy be with Misson gone?  What poor sod will cop the blame for everything that goes wrong?

5 minutes ago, demonstone said:

So who will the new whipping boy be with Misson gone?  What poor sod will cop the blame for everything that goes wrong?

Pert

10 minutes ago, Rusty Nails said:

The end of Misson's disastrous reign can't come soon enough.  Been a mighty long time since i've seen such an ill prepared and under done team lacking in AFL level fitness and conditioning (even amongst many that weren't effected pre-season) for the start of a season (other than during his reign under Neeld but still under Misson).

Not saying all our woes are on Misson but i've yet to see us come out of the blocks and hit the season running (including consistently solid first quarter openings) since he started.

Think we will see a completely different team appear next season, subject to the new appointment being kosher.

The first quarter of the first quarter of the first match of 2019 looked OK.  Mostly downhill from there. 

As long as he's not out for the dreaded and cursed "4 to 6 weeks". If that's the case, we won't see him until mid next year!

2 hours ago, Rusty Nails said:

The end of Misson's disastrous reign can't come soon enough.  Been a mighty long time since i've seen such an ill prepared and under done team lacking in AFL level fitness and conditioning (even amongst many that weren't effected pre-season) for the start of a season (other than during his reign under Neeld but still under Misson).

Not saying all our woes are on Misson but i've yet to see us come out of the blocks and hit the season running (including consistently solid first quarter openings) since he started.

Think we will see a completely different team appear next season, subject to the new appointment being kosher.

You obviously missed the 1956 season...