On 11/06/2019 at 00:33, scarlett said:

Interesting watching casey with more afl players available this week had much more space in the fwd50 and a clear change in plan and execution. Hopefully its the start of change.

Different coach Scarlett

 

Ahh, the memories.

Imagine the opposition  confusion if we set up forward conventionally in one game, or heaven forbid mixed it up. I would consider Preuss at full forward, Smith at CHF and Wiedeman on the flank for one game. What is there to lose.

  On 11/06/2019 at 06:13, Sorry kids said:

Imagine the opposition  confusion if we set up forward conventionally in one game, or heaven forbid mixed it up. I would consider Preuss at full forward, Smith at CHF and Wiedeman on the flank for one game. What is there to lose.

OR .... let's really throw them off ... let's attack the ball with EVEN MORE ferocity! No-one's game plan holds together up against that!

  On 11/06/2019 at 06:34, Mazer Rackham said:

OR .... let's really throw them off ... let's attack the ball with EVEN MORE ferocity! No-one's game plan holds together up against that!

Did not Magic Mark Neeld say we were going to be the toughest kids on the block.

You have to wonder at people who are in charge of a game plan that is clearly not working, yet refuse to accept that they might be wrong and continually, merely say we have to get better at it, instead of looking at using another game plan that might be better for us.

It's become clear that Goodwin believes that all out attack on the footy is how you win.

Like the Mike Tyson saying "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face", Goodwin thinks if we play our way, no game plan can stand up to it. They fall apart and wilt under the extreme pressure. If they don't, it shows we didn't do it well enough.

That's why there was no review of the prelim loss. We didn't play "our way"; if we had, the Eagles would have fallen apart.

That's why there is no plan B. Plan B is simply to execute plan A with more intensity.

Goodwin's ideal player is someone who can execute plan A, regardless of finesse. That's why a Spargo gets picked over a Preuss over and over, even though Preuss fills our current deficiencies much better. Spargo has the necessary "run around all day like a mad hornet" attribute. That he is more often chasing and tackling than in possession of the pill, let alone using it well, appears to be of no consequence.

Still on the boxing theme, we're like a punch drunk fighter with no technique, getting picked off with jabs, but following our opponent around the ring, walking into his combinations, saying to ourselves, "I only need to hit him once!"

  On 11/06/2019 at 06:34, Mazer Rackham said:

OR .... let's really throw them off ... let's attack the ball with EVEN MORE ferocity! No-one's game plan holds together up against that!

And this opens up a completely separate issue.

Aside from Game styles, Structures, pre-season injuries, list problems (depth).

Where has that ferocity been all year other than seen in the odd patches in games (Swans / Hawks?) and from the odd players rather than across the team as a whole?

Fire in the belly, spark, spirit.  Attack on the ball carrier.  Call it what you will.  It's been lacking from a 'team' perspective all season.  Some individual performances/exceptions sure, but generally it's gone missing.

Poor form can be turned around or a long injury list overcome (see Tigers in many matches) when this aspect turns.  It's part of the coach's responsibility along with those in the leadership group (Captains included) to turn this part around.

12 rounds in and what have we seen so far in this regard  guys?  Happy with this aspect?

Edited June 11, 20195 yr by Rusty Nails

  On 11/06/2019 at 07:09, Rusty Nails said:

Where has that ferocity been all year other than seen in the odd patches in games (Swans / Hawks?) and from the odd players rather than across the team as a whole?

I think we've seen plenty of it, but it must be hard for the players when they slog their guts out for 10 minutes, and inch the ball forward, only to have one of our "goal scorers" squander it, then the oppo whisk the ball the length of the field for a regulation effortless goal. I wonder "why can't we do that???"; surely our players must too?

Much easier to maintain when there is reward for it, and we are winning games; when the ferocity has a tangible benefit and is not some abstract thing the coaches are demanding.

We won’t make finals so time to experiment with the forward line.

Fritsch must be given an extended run in there and I’d like to see Jones and Viney  tried as small forwards , as Viney would bring enormous tackling pressure and Jones can often find the big sticks

 

Greg Stafford is the only assistant who can hold his head up?. The rest have their jobs on the line and we need changes. Is it time to lure an Adem Yze back with his Hawks IP or Cameron Bruce? 

  On 11/06/2019 at 10:26, Earl Hood said:

Greg Stafford is the only assistant who can hold his head up?. The rest have their jobs on the line and we need changes. Is it time to lure an Adem Yze back with his Hawks IP or Cameron Bruce? 

In a word, yes.

And a Carey/Lloyd goal kicking coach too, please.

Stafford has turned Gawn into a 2x All Australian beast.

He stays

  On 10/06/2019 at 23:35, Matsuo Basho said:

Max Rooke

Troy Chaplin

Ben Matthews

Greg Stafford

Justin Plapp

Tell me I'm wrong but that list of former players does not scream "skill, vision and finesse" to me. ALL OF THEM were either backmen or good honest battlers.

Maybe some assistant coaches who were renowned for their skills and vision might impart some teachings about skills and vision to our players? Just a thought.

*Mods - The forward line coach thread should be subsumed into this broader one.

 

I'm surprised, with your extensive knowledge of the game, that you haven't put your hand up

When did you complete your Level 4

I go to training and I am yet to hear a coach tell a player to miss a simple handball, kick to the feet of a leading forward,  try a switch to a player who is outnumbered etc etc

Our present predicament lies with the players

The effort is there just not the execution

  On 11/06/2019 at 13:16, Satyriconhome said:

 

The effort is there just not the execution

Serious question saty. Why do you think that is?

Got me stumped 

  On 11/06/2019 at 10:26, Earl Hood said:

Greg Stafford is the only assistant who can hold his head up?. The rest have their jobs on the line and we need changes. Is it time to lure an Adem Yze back with his Hawks IP or Cameron Bruce? 

Yes. Yze is the perfect choice. 

Just for a matter of interest what is our football department spend? Where does it rank? I think everyone will find the answer there.

Looking at our assistants and fitness department, we would be near the bottom of the list. The performance of both departments have been completely diabolical, I think a total freshen up is in order.

A complete and thorough review of both departments mentioned to be undertaken, because this year has been completely unacceptable.

The whole issue seems to be that we can't attract decent assistants because of our ability to spend with the bigger clubs.

we seem to get the sloppy seconds in every which way.

Edited June 11, 20195 yr by Win4theAges

What I've noticed about our set shots:

• Players don't calm themselves
• often players don't pace out their run-up or even have a regular run-up style.
• few take the 30 sec before the run up  
• they don't 'line up' the ball with a target.
• they lean back when taking the kick

The best set shot goal-kickers have a rigid set up routine: pacing, target, # of steps before kicking etc regardless of the state of the game. eg Kennedy, Brown, Gunston...

For mine our problem is not in the kicking or even the ball drop, it is in the set up routine.

The routines generally looks rushed and haphazard.  That may be a byproduct of the manic, play on at all costs mind set our players have been indoctrinated in.   

Maybe they should be told to take the 30 sec.  Train the set up routine (without even kicking the ball).  As the routine becomes second nature the set shot kicking will improve.

  On 11/06/2019 at 07:04, Mazer Rackham said:

It's become clear that Goodwin believes that all out attack on the footy is how you win.

Like the Mike Tyson saying "everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face", Goodwin thinks if we play our way, no game plan can stand up to it. They fall apart and wilt under the extreme pressure. If they don't, it shows we didn't do it well enough.

That's why there was no review of the prelim loss. We didn't play "our way"; if we had, the Eagles would have fallen apart.

That's why there is no plan B. Plan B is simply to execute plan A with more intensity.

Goodwin's ideal player is someone who can execute plan A, regardless of finesse. That's why a Spargo gets picked over a Preuss over and over, even though Preuss fills our current deficiencies much better. Spargo has the necessary "run around all day like a mad hornet" attribute. That he is more often chasing and tackling than in possession of the pill, let alone using it well, appears to be of no consequence.

Still on the boxing theme, we're like a punch drunk fighter with no technique, getting picked off with jabs, but following our opponent around the ring, walking into his combinations, saying to ourselves, "I only need to hit him once!"

Perfect analogy Mazer!

  On 10/06/2019 at 10:32, picket fence said:

More to the point 7 goals 15

AN ABSOLUTE INDICTMENT ON THE CLUB, COACHES AND PLAYERS who just cannot kick a friggen goal.

Sheeeeit it aint that hard from set shots!! It really isn't!

This after last weeks debacle. we are very SLOW Learners.!

There were 4 opportunities for players who took marks inside 50 metres not on the boundary line, who looked to pass off, rather than take the shot, not one was successful. Garletts was the worst from 35-40 almost directly in front. Players are lacking confidence, not willing to take a risk.

Almost need to do same as North & Carlton, the seasons done, simplify the plan and just go for it, take the game on, move it quickly into forward and take the shots for goal. Rather than be a deer in the headlights!

  On 11/06/2019 at 13:16, Satyriconhome said:

I'm surprised, with your extensive knowledge of the game, that you haven't put your hand up

When did you complete your Level 4

I go to training and I am yet to hear a coach tell a player to miss a simple handball, kick to the feet of a leading forward,  try a switch to a player who is outnumbered etc etc

Our present predicament lies with the players

The effort is there just not the execution

Have you heard them giving detailed ongoing instruction on how to do the correct things?

I believe that is the underlying point of this thread. No one is doubting the coaches are wanting the players to do the right things, but we have some quite inexperienced assistants who haven't played in the part of the ground where the majority of our problems are currently.

Most here seem to agree that the problem is execution and not effort, but how does a new coach, whom had a career as a backman, instruct a forward how to lead, what sort of set shot routine to have, how to deliver the ball how a forward wants it etc when they have no experience of that as a player?

"The effort is there just not the execution" applies to the coaches as well as the players.

 

  On 11/06/2019 at 13:16, Satyriconhome said:

I'm surprised, with your extensive knowledge of the game, that you haven't put your hand up

When did you complete your Level 4

I go to training and I am yet to hear a coach tell a player to miss a simple handball, kick to the feet of a leading forward,  try a switch to a player who is outnumbered etc etc

Our present predicament lies with the players

The effort is there just not the execution

Okay well while you’re at training studiously watching drills take a moment to scroll through the AFL app and check the current standings.

We are 16th on the ladder battling Carlton and GCSuns for a wooden spoon. Percentage 76%.

Given preseason expectations MFC line coaches would have the least job security of any coaching assistants in the competition. 

If we're able to execute at training, but not during the heat of battle, surely it means only one thing. We're not training with the players under the necessary pressure or fatigue levels.

Can the regular track watchers advise how (if) we introduce/simulate the pressure or fatigue that you'd have during a game into our training? 2 laps of the the oval, followed by a 50m sprint then 30 seconds to kick the goal? Miss, do it again. Or miss, and some other repercussion, number of misses equals number of laps post training. Don't know, just ideas.

Kicking bags of balls through the big sticks clearly isn't helping, and has been done a million times through their careers. It works for under 15s, sure, but we need to be a tad better than that.

Fix techniques and practice with multiple shots. Fix performance by simulating pressure and fatigue levels.

 

  On 10/06/2019 at 10:32, picket fence said:

Sheeeeit it aint that hard from set shots!! It really isn't!

In which vfl/afl side were you accomplished at that?

Edited June 12, 20195 yr by drysdale demon
spelling

  On 12/06/2019 at 00:53, drysdale demon said:

In which vfl/afl side were you accomplished at that?

Relevance? Out at West Buggaranong they use the same shaped ball, the grass is flat and the two sticks stand upright the same distance apart as they do on the MCG. 

If anything the pristine conditions of AFL/VFL grounds should make it easier to convert set shots.