12 hours ago, dbj1983 said:

Maybe if the delivery to our forwards was up to AFL standard, we wouldn’t even be talking about him.

None of our forwards have played well in both games. Fix the bigger issue and see if the problem remains.

Goody has some serious quick learning to do before the season is derailed.

 

I agree. It's not just Petracca. Look at Tommy Mac, Weid, ANB. Look at the scoreboard. If we don't get some system down there 25 points in 3 quarters of football won't beat anyone. The only forward playing reasonably well at the moment is Melksham.

A good team with system would simplify the game for Petracca and help him become a very good player, maybe in time a gun. If we are in for a bad year, lets not eat our own.

2 minutes ago, dieter said:

AVB wasn't a VFL player. He came from Canberra/NSW...(Just for the record.)

Thanks.  Yes I knew that.  VFL/state league.

It's a really vexed issue really, there have been some great players recruited from the state leagues in recient years.  Kelly from Geelong is a star and I think AVB would be seen in a similar light if he could just stay uninjured.

Think Trac is a ‘cream’ player.  When we are going, he will look great.  When we are struggling, he’s not the one to dig us out of a hole.  We got great meat and two veg men in the middle.  When we get our mojo back, he will look the dogs bollocks.  Up until then, he will frustrate the hell out of us all.

I was critical of Petracca when watching on Saturday, but I have mellowed slightly since. As I said last week, he looks miserable on the field at present. The club has sucked all the enjoyment out of his football by taking all the flair and unpredictability out of his game.

I don't want to see Petracca taking the ball 55 metres out from goal and looking for a short pass sideways. I want to see his first thought to be about kicking the goal himself. That is the type of player he should and can be. We have plenty of others who can be robots on the field.

For this week, I want to see Petracca enjoying his football again. If that means sitting across half back getting cheap kicks for a week, so be it. If it means playing in the middle and cleaning a few blokes up, even better.

That said, he would definitely benefit from losing some bulk so he can cover more ground. The amount of muscle he is carrying is definitely doing more harm than good.

Sometimes players just are out of form, Trac was going for things 1 handed, took a few short steps, lacks touch. I watched him very closely as i had a great seat at the Stadium, he didnt drop his head, but his confidence is down, like the rest of them.

My biggest takeaway was they played on when they shouldn't have and they didnt when they should have.. its 90% above the shoulders this game.. it will click, and it will fro Trac as well.

1 hour ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Totally agree.  Like you, I don't nessasrily think the solution is to drop Patracca, which will just shift one of the opposition's best defenders onto one of our even lesser capable and lesser experienced players. 

The other point I'd make is that why is this conversation focused just on Patracca, when the output of guys like T Mac, Weid, ANB.  Melksham has been just about our only forward to provide good output.

I think part of the answer is that our whole forward system is a shambles at the moment and the other part is that it's not just Patracca.

 

1 hour ago, deespicable me said:

I agree. It's not just Petracca. Look at Tommy Mac, Weid, ANB. Look at the scoreboard. If we don't get some system down there 25 points in 3 quarters of football won't beat anyone. The only forward playing reasonably well at the moment is Melksham.

A good team with system would simplify the game for Petracca and help him become a very good player, maybe in time a gun. If we are in for a bad year, lets not eat our own.

Great posts.

Re Melksham.  He is the only effective forward because he is the only one with real experience as a forward at AFL level so has learnt his 'craft':  Our other fwds on Saturday:

• Tom Mc (194cm) has played about 20 games as a forward @ AFL level
• ANB (182cm) isn't a forward; is there for defensive acts
• Sparrow (183 cm) who has good goal sense but is a defensive forward like ANB
• Petracca (186) is being played as a 'hybrid' on-baller/forward
• Weideman (195 cm) has played a handful of games.

It is a hotch-potch forward group with little experience in 'forward craft' (notwithstanding they play good games occasionally).  And it is all too 'vanilla' in height, size, skills, experience. 

To my mind 4 of the 6 need to be specialist forwards who are there to kick goals, are of differing height and skill sets to play together for whole games and develop understanding of each other's game and positioning to help our midfielders find them for the i50's coming in.  The 4 also need to defend.  The other 2 forward positions can be for a resting ruckman/midfielder and a defensive forward.  But it seems our coaching panel prefer flexible/hybrid players to specialists.

It takes time to develop 'forward craft' at AFL and cohesion among the group.  Then we may see the best of Petracca.  Sadly, until then CP5 will be the whipping boy on DL for the all ills in our forward line.

Edit:  Just saw this article where Nick Riewoldt says Petracca needs to learn forward 'craft' and how to get separation from defenders. Petracca has work to do  which we all agree with but it also applies to all our forward line and the coaching/selection panel. 

Edited April 1, 20196 yr by Lucifer's Hero

I ask myself every time I watch him play, this kid was supposed to be a #1 draft pick. Unfortunately for us he just hasn't come on. No X factor or freakish ability, too short to be a key fwd and not mobile enough to play like de goey.  He plays like someone who used to bully kids when underage but peaked to early. I worry for his long term future. At his best a goal a game fwd.  No tank .  Back to Casey indefinitely, until he rips it apart.  

23 hours ago, Moonshadow said:

That simple spilt chest mark on the siren was very, very disappointing. A goal after the siren could have been a huge confidence booster for the whole team

Absolutely Coach killer and it prob says where his confidence is at.

Dees fans want him to be a Dusty De Goey and Cripps all in one 

Reckon he is a bit off pace this year but most of his better work is fine in heavy traffic and half the posts here don't even see his good work.

Time to take pressure off him let him have a go at half back for a quarter and maybe change him on ball or forward at some stage.

Kicking really a t set shots is unreliable at best and needs work!

We are not learning from our past games and are being out coached and out smarted. Badly need pace on our forward half.

Reckon like Vines it was better in some ways this week but we were really much more badly out coached on Sat night than Round 1 

TV showing Goody looked as though he was bereft if ideas and helpless.

We need some PlanB or/and Plan C.

Somrhow Have d good feeling about Frid Znight and think will still get 60,000 plus.

On 3/30/2019 at 10:26 PM, stranga said:

Time to go. Trade. Name me another successful top 2 Pick who needed a vfl stint and then became an elite player. Doesn't happen.

I know he wasn't top 2 but Gus spent the first 3 weeks of last year in the 2s and went on to have a break out season finishing 3rd in the Brownlow. Might not be a genuine elite player (yet) but the old school drop to VFL still has purpose. 

I'm not entirely in favour of dropping talent particularly when we are in such a vulnerable spot. But trac needs confidence. He has arrogance a plenty right up until the ball comes near then he suddenly looks timid. He should be flattening opponents to get to the footy. He's big and strong but doesn't act like it. A stint in the 2s could do him good

Petracca has been getting a lot more of the ball than Weed Or Tmac.

If they were doing their job properly then there would be a lot less pressure on Trac.

3 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I don't have a problem with us recruiting some of the top notch ones like Hannan, Freitch and AVB, it's some of the more speculative ones like T Smith, Hore and Keilty that I wounder if they are taking the spot of a younger player with more potential, but under developt/under achieved during their U18 time, like a fast outside version of James Harmes.

I think at the moment we are particularly missing the pace, marking ability and opportunist goal sense of Hannan.  Contrary to my concerns about Keilty, from what I understand, he is about the only key position type we have a the moment that is showing any real form.  Sometimes you are dammed if you do and dammed if you don't.

The one I'd question the most up to this point is Hore.  A VFL best and fairest suggests that he could well be at or close to league standard, but we have a realitive abundance of backline talent, when you consider Lever on the comeback and Petty quietly developing into a quality player.

It's all good to recruit the best available player in the draft, but if you rarely/never recruit based on need, then sooner or later you will have needs that are unforfilled.

And a further issue to this is that we got rid of Tyson and Kent.  I was a big fan of Tyson early days, not so much Kent, but what these two would add is AFL quality depth.  They could be brought in to an AFL side and we'd know they'd perform to a certain level that was definitely competitive at AFL level.

We are no relying on the likes of Hore, C Wagner, Sparrow, et al to do that, and unfortunately they just aren't up to the standard (happy to cut Sparrow some slack given he's a kid).

4 hours ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

I think part of the answer is that our whole forward system is a shambles at the moment and the other part is that it's not just Patracca.

Because this is a Petracca thread.  Trying to get him to reboot, go back to zero, and rebuild. 

Some are already wanting to take the shortcut with him already.  Shortcuts do not workout this way.

1 hour ago, DeeZee said:

Petracca has been getting a lot more of the ball than Weed Or Tmac.

If they were doing their job properly then there would be a lot less pressure on Trac.

He needs pressure on him...  he hasn't had enough,  and that is why he's been so content with his cameo outputs.   He has slinked past any scrutiny...  up until the preseason just gone.

 

This is what destroys our top level young talent.   All the softness and adoration applied to them,  for nothing more than signing on. 

Let them be in the background !!!  and if they put in short steps,  let them know about it.

But stop building them up,  into a figment of THEIR own imaginations...  before they have Earnt any footy respect.

 

We spoil our top talents.

This is why Mfc, have failed to develop most of our top line draftees.

# why is it that many players develop interstate,  when they can't in Vic...  and especially at Melbourne fc.

Think about it...  the answer is as plain as the nose on your faces.   Trouble is...  its out of focus,  and WE never ever see it,  unless we peer into  "mirror mirror"  on the wall.

And buy the way...  who is  'the fairest'  of them all,  Melbourne ? 

we should know ?

Edited April 1, 20196 yr by DV8

1 hour ago, DV8 said:

Because this is a Petracca thread.  Trying to get him to reboot, go back to zero, and rebuild. 

Some are already wanting to take the shortcut with him already.  Shortcuts do not workout this way.

Understand this is the Petracca thread, but my point is that in the current context, why does Petracca deserve his own thread and the others not.  If the rest of the forwardline was performing well and he was the odd one out in not providing the expected output, then I'd understand.  But that's not the case and thus I think it's quite unfair to single one player out above others. 

It's a saviour mentality that people expect him to carry the team on his back and be a match winner whilst the rest of the team around him plays like rubbish, all before he has really yet to establish himself with that level of capacity.  Players take time to develop and mature.  Anyone seriously consider that we should trade him should ask themselves - should Richmond have traded out Dustin Martin in the years prior to him fully asserting himself on the competition when he was showing the occational flash of brilliance, but not providing a consistent level of output expected of a player of his physical attributes.

For those that are saying Petracca is out of shape, do you mean fat or he's bulked too much muscle in the wrong areas?

 

 

22 minutes ago, Rodney (Balls) Grinter said:

Understand this is the Petracca thread, but my point is that in the current context, why does Petracca deserve his own thread and the others not.

Its not about wanting him to be a saviour.   At least not from my part.

It's about wanting Petracca to provide what he is capable of providing, with his talents and physique in a better condition.

... As he has been, showing last year in inconsistency,  and because its been brought to peoples attention,  they are all now on the bandwagon of trying to get him to lift in their own ways.

He's been spoilt by all and sundry, and allowed to go along as he has,  with Cameo's, for a couple of seasons...  the  'rose-coloured-glasses'  adoration he's enjoyed,  stopped any real close attention on him,  and he's waltzed along accordingly.   IMO, a lot to do with the rest of the team struggling thru 2016/17...  made him look better, on natural talent alone, without real workrate.

 

Now since last year,  the team has much more anticipation/expectation on them,  and so people are looking much deeper into what we're are built on...

Now the microscope is on all of us,  from within and outside.

Players have to lift individually, collectively, and team wise, to improve on the ladder position.   Improve with consistency, and growth of their footy.  this means that some have to wrork harder, those who aren't working to their capacity.  Which is most of your young ones.

Petracca at his age and games played, has the ability to be working much harder.  IF he applies himself to that task.  IF he has the dedication, deesire, and deetermination, to do just that.

 

# edit : Most of the other players commitment is healthier...  they are fitter and closer to their body weight,  fitness levels,  that should be expected of them with their time within the clubs programs.

Edited April 1, 20196 yr by DV8

58 minutes ago, roy11 said:

For those that are saying Petracca is out of shape, do you mean fat or he's bulked too much muscle in the wrong areas?

 

 

Bulk roy. There ain't much fat on him at all, he's just way too bulky. Like a bodybuilder trying to run a marathon.

Needs to lose muscle and increase his endurance.

Doesn't strike me as a player with football smarts currently. Feel like we're always hanging on everything and want him to be incredible. 

1 hour ago, roy11 said:

For those that are saying Petracca is out of shape, do you mean fat or he's bulked too much muscle in the wrong areas?

 

 

Both  'roy'.   To play on-ball with endurance, he He has to be more defined...  we ought'a be able to see more sinew on him.  He has too much cover, and too much bulk.

 

Also to play forward he should be able to run his minding opponent around the forwardline,  to try to burn them up.

Opponents would love to play on Tracca.

And he is not strong enough, even with his bulk, to fend them off like a bull, and kick goals.   It doesn't work for him, and he will be playing on opponents taller, and as fast and agile as he is. I think he doesn't have enough energy to stay IN the game for long enough periods.   And this is why he comes and blows, with little Cameos.

 

If we as a team are to improve to the level above ours of last year... we need every player to lift and to get more in shape,  than they ever have been.

2 hours ago, roy11 said:

For those that are saying Petracca is out of shape, do you mean fat or he's bulked too much muscle in the wrong areas?

 

 

55 minutes ago, Demon Disciple said:

Bulk roy. There ain't much fat on him at all, he's just way too bulky. Like a bodybuilder trying to run a marathon.

Needs to lose muscle and increase his endurance.

Fair play, i know it's a different sport but Romelu Lukaku (Manchester United) made some interesting comments late last year. Said his initial patchy season form was due to the fact he was too bulked/muscly for the World Cup and struggled when returning to quicker paced EPL. All the sports science in the world and they still get certain things wrong. Curious to know what sort of pre-season program the trac was on

 

6 hours ago, shorty said:

I ask myself every time I watch him play, this kid was supposed to be a #1 draft pick. Unfortunately for us he just hasn't come on. No X factor or freakish ability, too short to be a key fwd and not mobile enough to play like de goey.  He plays like someone who used to bully kids when underage but peaked to early. I worry for his long term future. At his best a goal a game fwd.  No tank .  Back to Casey indefinitely, until he rips it apart.  

You have covered it exactly third sentence says it all.

ANB out before Petracca

ANB average is poor!!

51 minutes ago, spirit of norm smith said:

ANB out before Petracca

ANB average is poor!!

Very different players playing very different roles....but equally badly

Both disappointing.

It begs the question though...given this year may or may not soon become a finals write off...at what point do you reset with up and comers.... cutting the deadwood aside to either step up...or out .