Sam Weideman + contract

[Diamond_Jim 12,567]

1 hour ago, Deeminion said:

Sam has potential but is that potential worth $650K plus? At the moment, no. Both Sam and the Club should put any negotiations on hold. He has to prove that he can earn that amount.

He's the only KPF on the market. The disappointing thing is that the manager seems to be happy putting figures into the media. I suspect Tom Mac's negotiation last year was just as difficult but at least it wasn't a potentially destabilising media saga.

After years of the Hogan drama I suspect most MFC supporters are over such things.

MFC are in the box seat.... just wait another 6 weeks and decide. Form will tell.

For many of us who have watched Sam at VFL level for several years he is by no means a certainty.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Diamond_Jim

[buck_nekkid 5,856]

He is not a free agent, or even near it.  He had a couple of key performances in big games, but has been a ‘solid contributor’ (at best) otherwise.  This negotiation stuff is all ducks and drakes.  Does he want to stay and play with us, or does he want out (for the cash, or whatever?).  The media love a contract negotiation, and the managers love to use the media to apply negotiating pressure.  It’s all froth and bubbles until it is done, one at or the other.

If I was Sam, I would be putting pressure on the negotiation with performances that made us really think he can live up to his potential.

[picket fence 17,137]

1 hour ago, Demonland said:

 

How much does he want???

TELL HIM HE IS DREAMING!

500 TOPS take it or leave it. Hasnt done enough to command the money he and management wants.

Agree put that money towards a Jeremy Cameron!

[Wiseblood 24,637]

You can't blame his management for the opening gambit.  Starting high will help them potentially get the deal they really want.  I doubt they really want 650k, but starting there means they have more room to negotiate.

On the flip side, we know he isn't worth that, and I highly doubt we will be paying him that sort of money.  In fact, if they were to stick firm on it, I think you'll find Sam will be playing elsewhere next season.

What it adds up to is that the contract may not happen until towards the end of the season.  Sam will have time to, hopefully, show some further improvement and consistency in his game, and we can come to a fair agreement for all involved.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

Wonder if the club will get his contract sorted now or later in the year.

Doing it now gives the club certainty, resources and time that can be spent on luring another big name, as well as re-signing our younger brigade. We still have money in the bank from Hogan's departure.

Leaving Weid's contract until later in the year gives us a clearer picture of his true worth. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Moonshadow

[ManDee 7,134]

Offer 650k for 10 years no increases or 500k for 4 years

[Gator 17,332]

His contract will get sorted.  It's not worth being up in arms about nothing.  The club will pay him what he's worth and he'll accept. 

He'll also become a very good player. Clearly a 20 odd game key tall forward isn't playing his best footy at 21. And he wasn't at Casey when he was a teenager.

I'm glad he's now getting continuum in the seniors.  It will only help him develop. 

[Deemania since 56 6,634]

47 minutes ago, Lucifer's Hero said:

If the clubs I mentioned want a replacement for a tall fwd there are a limited number available, so I don't agree they need a reality check.

Regarding Sam's performance/potential, I'm not sure who you might be comparing him to.  I compare him to other tall players in his draft year:

• Hipwood leads the field for consistently good performance but he wasn't available and may end up being the pick of the crop.
• Curnow is getting a lot of kudos but he has stalled this year.
• All have had fluctuating performances as has Sam.
• None of the draftees have stood up in a big game like Sam did in the finals.

imv he is as good if not better than most of his peers.  I have little doubt when Hawks, Cats, Pies, Ess, Sydney go hunting for a fwd they will look at that pool.   What other choices do they have?

I don't wish to buy into what Sam's  $ worth as Mahoney has great control over our salary cap and keeping players.  But we supporters shouldn't underestimate that he would be in demand.

All reasonable, admittedly. Trying to play the Devil's Advocate, a little, as I myself regard 1-2 games - albeit finals - of good performance yet still cameo performance, as not quite enough given the home-and-away games in which he played yet we lost due to a lack of firepower and continued initiative. If he re-signs and improves reliability, performances and contribution, I'd be happy to have him on-board, still. 

Edited April 17, 2019 by Deemania since 56

[Deemania since 56 6,634]

32 minutes ago, buck_nekkid said:

He is not a free agent, or even near it.  He had a couple of key performances in big games, but has been a ‘solid contributor’ (at best) otherwise.  This negotiation stuff is all ducks and drakes.  Does he want to stay and play with us, or does he want out (for the cash, or whatever?).  The media love a contract negotiation, and the managers love to use the media to apply negotiating pressure.  It’s all froth and bubbles until it is done, one at or the other.

If I was Sam, I would be putting pressure on the negotiation with performances that made us really think he can live up to his potential.

Re-signature would be automated with that performance improvement. Also of benefit to him would be a more realistic chance of improved payments for such a contribution - rather than a promise that has lasted for years, not fully detected. 

[Deemania since 56 6,634]

52 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Form will tell

Too right, inflationary demands do no-one no good. Kick 80+ goals a year would be a sign of consistency, earning a happily transferred pay cheque. 

[whatwhat say what 22,735]

32 minutes ago, Deemania since 56 said:

Too right, inflationary demands do no-one no good. Kick 80+ goals a year would be a sign of consistency, earning a happily transferred pay cheque. 

he kicks 80 goals a year he'll be on riewoldt, cameron, and franklin level!

with the way we're playing and bringing the ball i50, two goals a game average would be very solid, but most importantly is that weed is continuing to impact play on a regular and consistent basis

charlie curnow is on over $800k a year; ben brown is on somewhere similar after originally being mooted as possibly earning up to $1m a season, signed up to the end of 2020 - when i believe he'll be one year short of a free agent

but pre-agency may become a possibility for brown at the end of this season if the the kangaroos are still average to poor-ish

[buck_nekkid 5,856]

7 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

he kicks 80 goals a year he'll be on riewoldt, cameron, and franklin level!

with the way we're playing and bringing the ball i50, two goals a game average would be very solid, but most importantly is that weed is continuing to impact play on a regular and consistent basis

charlie curnow is on over $800k a year; ben brown is on somewhere similar after originally being mooted as possibly earning up to $1m a season, signed up to the end of 2020 - when i believe he'll be one year short of a free agent

but pre-agency may become a possibility for brown at the end of this season if the the kangaroos are still average to poor-ish

I’ll spew if we sign that flopper 

[Demons1858 1,760]

Paying big developing forwards on potential hasn't worked in recent times e.g. patton, boyd, daniher, and cameron to a lesser extent. hogan would be one of the exceptions

[Redleg 40,894]

1 hour ago, ProDee said:

His contract will get sorted.  It's not worth being up in arms about nothing.  The club will pay him what he's worth and he'll accept. 

He'll also become a very good player. Clearly a 20 odd game key tall forward isn't playing his best footy at 21. And he wasn't at Casey when he was a teenager.

I'm glad he's now getting continuum in the seniors.  It will only help him develop. 

Agree it will get done, but it may be for a shorter period say 2 years and at less money.

That will allow him to back himself in for improvement.

[DeeSpencer 25,671]

One thing we have to be careful not to do here is upset him based on a low ball offer. The rumour is that's what got Lever really thinking about moving home and there's been lots of other cases of that.

It's a good situation to wait and see until mid year and then maybe make a decent counter offer that is fair for both sides.

[Willmoy1947 4,085]

Two Clubs that would be sniffing around right now that have big money and that will want him immediately, and have far better delivery into the 50 are Cats and TWSNBN. They wont stop til he's signed and some...... Daniher nearly gone and Big Mouth(ie great pretender) just about gone.

[Diamond_Jim 12,567]

35 minutes ago, willmoy said:

Two Clubs that would be sniffing around right now that have big money and that will want him immediately, and have far better delivery into the 50 are Cats and TWSNBN. They wont stop til he's signed and some...... Daniher nearly gone and Big Mouth(ie great pretender) just about gone.

GWS still have salary cap issues so there is no way they would overpay for a "maybe forward".

Only way is if another club took Patton off their hands. Can't see that happening this year given his injury history.

Geelong..now that is a possibility

[SPC 3,549]

Good thing is that being a contract year.. he might finish the year off strong if we do not sign him to end of season.

[Bring-Back-Powell 14,816]

$650K is a good bit of kanga for a 20 goal a year key forward.

[Moonshadow 17,676]

1 hour ago, DeeSpencer said:

One thing we have to be careful not to do here is upset him based on a low ball offer. The rumour is that's what got Lever really thinking about moving home and there's been lots of other cases of that.

It's a good situation to wait and see until mid year and then maybe make a decent counter offer that is fair for both sides.

Correct me if I'm wrong DS, but I seem to recall that Adelaide offered Lever a ridiculously low amount, something like $270k pa. I'd call that insulting for a guy rated as the best young defender going around at the time.

Weid hasn't yet got the runs on the board that Lever had. I'm sure Mahoney and TViney will know exactly where he's at and what would be a reasonable offer.

They are well aware of what happened to Lever, they were instrumental in his decision to leave!

[Dr. Gonzo 24,206]

How much do people think would be fair? Everyone's scoffing at 650k but would 550k be ok? 400k? Salary cap has increased over the last few years so 650k for the next 2-3 years isn't the same as 650k 2013-2015.

[whatwhat say what 22,735]

19 minutes ago, Dr. Gonzo said:

How much do people think would be fair? Everyone's scoffing at 650k but would 550k be ok? 400k? Salary cap has increased over the last few years so 650k for the next 2-3 years isn't the same as 650k 2013-2015.

exactly

average afl wage was $370k last year, and will go up again in 2019 as the cba increases every year leading up to end of 2022 and the next rights agreement

you gotta pay someone, after all...

[Demon Disciple 12,118]

12 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

you gotta pay someone, after all...

Give it to Max, Clarry and Brayshaw. They're the most deserving.

[Diamond_Jim 12,567]

19 minutes ago, whatwhatsaywhat said:

exactly

average afl wage was $370k last year, and will go up again in 2019 as the cba increases every year leading up to end of 2022 and the next rights agreement

you gotta pay someone, after all...

that average is rather misleading when you consider that first year players earn under $70k plus match payments. On the other hand there are always 10 players at a club on or near $600k plus out of a salary cap of around $13M. I assume our ten are

Lever, Gawn, May, Tom Mac, Oliver, Brayshaw,(?) Viney,  Salem(?) Jones (?) Jetta(?)

Would love to know the median pay level but I would expect for a fourth year player with fifty plus games that is best 22 without being top 10 at a club you are looking at around $450k. If he kicks 30-40 he will move into the top10 and will easily command $550k plus.

Next year we will not have to pay Lewis but hopefully someone such as Petty puts his hand up for a decent pay rise.

[Lucifers Hero 39,732]

23 minutes ago, Diamond_Jim said:

Would love to know the median pay level but I would expect for a fourth year player with fifty plus games that is best 22 without being top 10 at a club you are looking at around $450k. If he kicks 30-40 he will move into the top10 and will easily command $550k plus.

AFL Player Salaries

Based on the table in the article the median is between $300k and $400k.  A fair chance that it is around the average of approx $360. 

I don't think we have a player over $800k so a few of our champs are being paid 'unders'.  I recall Lewis giving the players a pep talk a few years ago that if they want the ultimate success they need to grow together so can't be asking top dollar.  So far players seem to have been paying attention.

As and aside, supporters have a tendency to overstate what player x might actually be earning.  Only 140 of 703 players earnt more than $500k.

Edited April 17, 2019 by Lucifer's Hero